626 réponses à ce sujet

[WillPF363]

Can it at least not be tied to the single player game like ME3 was? I mean, I can understand that some people like multiplayer (I do too, in other genres), but I don't and I don't like being punished in game for not participating in it.

[Darth Death]

Avejajed wrote...

Sorry if everyone wants cake now.

Oddly enough, it was my bro's birthday yesterday & no one remember lol. We'll celebrate at cici pizza today instead though. 

[syllogi]

There are other ways to have an online component without multiplayer, as mentioned already, in regards to DA2.

The Skyrim Creation Kit is an excellent example of an online component that gives PC players what they want (a toolset), but also gives them a safe, moderated community to share their creations, by making it tied to one's Steam account.

There may be some who don't like having to go through Steam to use the Creation Kit, but in general, the benefits outweigh the complaints, and it's a welcome alternative to other less savory places on the internet where mods are hosted.

I'm guessing the multiplayer element has already been added to DA3 and there's no turning back now, but it would have been great if the DA devs had looked at the Skyrim Creation Kit as a way to bring people online without feeling forced.

[eroeru]

@syllogi and off-topic I know but your avatar goes just too perfectly with this.

[Dragoonlordz]

I said it recently and will say again,,,

I have nothing against MP as long as the SP content does not suffer because of it. I have no idea what or if MP will be in DA3 but safe to assume is something they might do. However this does not mean the SP content will be bad or the game will be bad because of it. In fact it does not even have to relate to MP what EA said recently.

Social is not just MP but also other elements for example in the crafting feedback for DA3, in my feedback included an online social element for crafting. The ability to share crafting materials and trade crafted items with others who do not enjoy that aspect of gaming very much. I who like crafting in games can share materials and weapons with my friends who do not. I see no reason to throw hissy fits about this or whine about it.

MP is one of the factors in ME that many people really like and in BG a lot of people liked but it did not impact my enjoyment of the SP content at all. Few clicks and key presses and I had over 10k assets using gibbed in ME3 (I actually enjoy the MP anyways though from time to time in that game). There are also many MP games that involved slower combat so jumping to conclusions about how must be spam button fest is just silly at this stage.

Nothing is stopping you playing SP in a game that has both SP and MP. Bioware slightly messed up at start with the amount of assets needed in ME3 which has been fixed now so no longer require MP at all for SP endings if want only to play SP. But that does not mean will make that mistake again.

If I want to play an DOS game I have to have either have a machine capable of using DOS or third party application. Nothing stops me from playing those old games just like nothing stops you from playing old games but I won't whine at a developer for no longer making DOS games instead of Windows XP, Vista and Win7 compatible titles.

The fact is there being so little information at this stage, it seems silly to throw a tantrum over which might happen or how it will happen if does happen at all. None of which is actually known yet.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:10 .

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
Yet Mike and Mark have already said it will happen, in some form. So if what someone wants is "no multiplayer component at all", then they are categorically not getting what they want. Time to move on.

???

I follow DA news as much as anybody here and I can't recall Laidlaw or Darrah ever publically saying or reading anything from them definitively stating a future DA game would definitively have some multiplayer mode. I know Laidlaw mentioned at a panel that IF they were to do MP it might be similar to how Baldur's Gate handled it, but it would be news to me if they've said its a 100% sure bet that a future Dragon Age game would have some kind of multiplayer mode.

syllogi wrote...
There are other ways to have an online component without multiplayer, as mentioned already, in regards to DA2.

The Skyrim Creation Kit is an excellent example of an online component that gives PC players what they want (a toolset), but also gives them a  safe, moderated community to share their creations, by making it tied to one's Steam account.

There may be some who don't like having  to go through Steam to use the Creation Kit, but in general, the  benefits outweigh the complaints, and it's a welcome alternative to  other less savory places on the internet where mods are hosted.

I'm guessing the multiplayer element has already been added to DA3 and  there's no turning back now, but it would have been great if the DA devs had looked at the Skyrim Creation Kit as a way to bring people online  without feeling forced.

Totally agreed. But if you look at recent EA games like Battlefield 3 or Dragon Age 2, they both turned their backs on supporting the modding community.  And since its EA, its not like you'd see them supporting Steam Workshop since they have Origin.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[brushyourteeth]

In some of the Harvest Moon games for the wii, a second player can use the wiimote to "tickle" or "rub" some of the NPC's to make them like you more.

True story.

I support NPC-tickling co-op for DAIII. Who wants Antivan gloves or a fertility amulet when you can have a good old-fashioned rubdown instead?

[billy the squid]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Yet Mike and Mark have already said it will happen, in some form. So if what someone wants is "no multiplayer component at all", then they are categorically not getting what they want. Time to move on.

???

I follow DA news as much as anybody here and I can't recall Laidlaw or Darrah ever publically saying or reading anything from them definitively stating a future DA game would definitively have some multiplayer mode. I know Laidlaw mentioned at a panel that IF they were to do MP it might be similar to how Baldur's Gate handled it, but it would be news to me if they've said its a 100% sure bet that a future Dragon Age game would have some kind of multiplayer mode.

Well the Frank G at Ea stated they will not Green light any game which does not contain an online segment, MP, Co op, social networking etc. So while Mike and Mark may not have said it. I would imagine the word has come down the vine that it will have this component in it due to whatever reason EA has come up with.

How that is actually implemented and what is involved I would think is left up to the development team to a large extent. Rather than being the preserve of the EA corporate boards, they have legal and financial things to deal with, rather than game development.

[The real PBALL]

I thought the cake was fine.

[AbsoluteApril]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
And I think the way a lot of people would like it to be done is "not at all".

Yet Mike and Mark have already said it will happen, in some form. So if what someone wants is "no multiplayer component at all", then they are categorically not getting what they want. Time to move on.

I know you feel my tears BioWare


edit - if it's just online, ala DA2, not requiring me to play with others, then I will STFU

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:32 .

[Korusus]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Yet Mike and Mark have already said it will happen, in some form. So if what someone wants is "no multiplayer component at all", then they are categorically not getting what they want. Time to move on.

???

I follow DA news as much as anybody here and I can't recall Laidlaw or Darrah ever publically saying or reading anything from them definitively stating a future DA game would definitively have some multiplayer mode. I know Laidlaw mentioned at a panel that IF they were to do MP it might be similar to how Baldur's Gate handled it, but it would be news to me if they've said its a 100% sure bet that a future Dragon Age game would have some kind of multiplayer mode.

Yeah I agree.  I'm a little shocked, I'm pretty sure Gaider just let the cat out of the bag.

As far as the cake analogy goes...we pay a lot of money for those cakes.  It's not like BioWare gives their games away for free.  They've just been bad cakes lately.  That's fine, they can go back to making excellent cakes again. But I don't think they want to.  Creative atrophy maybe?

[Emzamination]

David Gaider wrote...

Avejajed wrote...
You guys are really stupid. I don't understand why you would consistently argue with someone who has basically put himself through his creativity into something for people to enjoy and you just tell him it sucks. It's like if I baked you a cake for your birthday and I put a lot of effort into it and you're like "sry bro, the cake u made me 3 yrs ago was better."

Oh, it's fine. No need to defend me. They're free to not like the cake.

If they think that throwing it on the ground, stomping on it and then insulting our mother is a good way to convince us to bake them a new one, however, they've probably spent too much time on the Internet and forgotten how to talk to people who are people and not forum jockeys impressed by their internet tough guy act. But whatever.

 lol David's the Boss

Modifié par Emzamination, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Brockololly]

billy the squid wrote...
Well the Frank G at Ea stated they will not Green light any game which does not contain an online segment, MP, Co op, social networking etc. So while Mike and Mark may not have said it. I would imagine the word has come down the vine that it will have this component in it due to whatever reason EA has come up with.

How that is actually implemented and what is involved I would think is left up to the development team to a large extent. Rather than being the preserve of the EA corporate boards, they have legal and financial things to deal with, rather than game development.

Thats true, but I'm just wondering what exactly Gibeau means when he's saying some sort of online capability. Yes, DAO and DA2 have the uploading to BSN and DLC but in light of most other recent EA games, that kind of online implementation seems very much the exception and not the rule.

Most other recent EA games seem to have some kind of dedicated multiplayer or coop mode- an actual online gameplay mode, not just some sort of social networking type add on.

[schalafi]

David, when you said "all their games must have a multiplayer or online component (requirements which even DA2 satisfied)" what was the online component /components that satisfied EA's demand?

[MKDAWUSS]

WillPF363 wrote...

Can it at least not be tied to the single player game like ME3 was? I mean, I can understand that some people like multiplayer (I do too, in other genres), but I don't and I don't like being punished in game for not participating in it.

What about post-campaign DLC? I think MP-SP integration (or impact) would work better for post-campaign content.

[Playest]

I posed the question about multi-player here on the forums last year and the over whelming response was no. So much for Bioware listening to our feedback.

http://social.biowar...1/index/7679788

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Oh, it's fine. No need to defend me. They're free to not like the cake.

If they think that throwing it on the ground, stomping on it and then insulting our mother is a good way to convince us to bake them a new one, however, they've probably spent too much time on the Internet and forgotten how to talk to people who are people and not forum jockeys impressed by their internet tough guy act. But whatever.

Well, think of it as feedback on teh concept.  Very spirited feedback.  By the time ME3's multiplayer got leaked, it was already a totally done deal, regardless of what fans actually wanted.  I don't think players want that to happen again.

Any multiplayer that going to be forced implemented into the game is going to have to be handled very, very, carefully.  There will be a lot of suspicion and hard feelings to get past.  Trust me, I'm one of the people who will harbor them. 

[Lord_Valandil]

Well, I can safely say now that I'm done with the Dragon Age franchise.
Good day, ladies and gentlemen.

[ScotGaymer]

David Gaider wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

This has come up because a very high up EA exec has very proudly and stupidly declared that under his watch EA has not released a "Singleplayer only" game; and under his continued watch it would NEVER release a single player only game.

Bioware is a division of EA as we keep being told.

Thus the panic about "OMG! Is DA3 going to have a boring shoehorned in Multiplayer like ME3 did?"

Which is interesting primarily due to the fact that this is something EA has said repeatedly and publicly many times to date-- all their games must have a multiplayer or online component (requirements which even DA2 satisfied). And both Mike and Mark have also spoken several times about their intention to have some form of multiplayer in the DA franchise, if not details as to what form it will take.

So, curiosity about that? Sure. Concern? Maybe, if you had anxiety about how that was going to be implented within DA, though that isn't going to be explained anytime soon-- I'm sure opinions on how you'd like to see it done are far more welcome than assumptions, though. Shock and panic? I have no idea why, unless someone wasn't paying attention.

Firstly, I want to say thank you for replying to me. You, and Mike, usually do and I find it really gratifying. And I hope it's because you know im not an unreasonable hater or fanboy "bio-drone" lol.

Secondly, I want to express some surprise at your surprise on the reflex panic that this issue has engendered.

I mean think about it for a moment.

EA has an appalling history as a publisher. If it were possible for a company to be pure evil, then EA would be the corporate equivalent of Clthulu - the nameless unspeakable evil, the devourer of worlds. Etc. And fairly or not that is the perception of EA and ALL it's holdings the world over.
So when EA makes an announcement people the world over automatically assume the worst, because honestly with EA it usually IS the worst that we get.

From boring unoriginal yearly regurgitated sports games, to Dead Space being so dumbed down that it doesn't even qualify as a horror game anymore, to Spore having potentially been the best game ever turning out to be the worst game ever, and so on; and I really could keep going here as there is literally hundreds of examples of EA ruining games, development studios, and entire franchises with their corporate meddling.

Even the most "reasonable" of gamers can not deny that EA has a bad history, and a poor public image that is completely and totally deserved.

So when EA announces with such pride, such glee, stupid ass policies like not allowing ANY of their games to be Single Player Only people automatically default to "OMG! EA is ruining everything! Again!" simply because they have done it before many many times.
It might be a melodramatic overreaction especially when you take into account we are talking about a game that hasn't officially been announced yet, but you can't honestly be surprised.

EDIT:
Seriously?

"Bio Drone" is censored?

Really? I had to put it in a hyphen to get it past the censor. Lol. Omg.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[roundcrow]

...and now I want cake too, damn you all.

[King Cousland]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Well, I can safely say now that I'm done with the Dragon Age franchise.
Good day, ladies and gentlemen.

Why? Why does one feature which you know nothing about impact on the whole of the IP? 

[Brockololly]

schalafi wrote...

David, when you said "all their games must have a multiplayer or online component (requirements which even DA2 satisfied)" what was the online component /components that satisfied EA's demand?

The only thing I can think of is the DLC and possibly the uploading to BSN stuff. 

But even then, compared to other recent EA games, DA seems to be the odd game out when you look at the online features of other recent EA games.

EA Sports games (FIFA, Madden)- all have competitive MP
Crysis 2 and 3- Competitive MP
Dead Space 2- Tacked on MP
Dead Space 3- Coop
Medal of Honor- Competitive MP
Battlefield games- Competitive MP
The Old Republic, Secret World- MMOs
Army of Two- Coop
Need for Speed/Burnout- Competitive MP
ME3- Coop
Command and Conquer- going to be Free to Play
SimCity- requires always online
Syndicate- Coop


I'm sure there are more too. But from EA games released in the past couple years, pretty much only Dead Space, ME1 and ME2 and Dragon Age:Origins and Dragon Age 2 have not had any kind of coop or competitive MP. You have some EA Partners games like Alice: The Madness Returns and Kingdoms of Amalur that didn't have coop either, but those aren't games developed by EA but rather only published by them.

[nightscrawl]

For anyone interested, the original Destructoid article was updated...

[Update: Gibeau "clarified" what he said to Kotaku by basically repeating what he said originally in a more flowery way. It's barely worth an update but I was getting smarmy messages from smug gimboids about it, so here you go.

"What I said was [about not greenlighting] anything that [doesn't have] an online service. You can have a very deep single-player game but it has to have an ongoing content plan for keeping customers engaged beyond what's on the initial disc. I'm not saying deathmatch must come to Mirror's Edge."

He added that games are to be thought of as services now, and went on to say that you, "need to have a social experience where you're part of a large community." EA knows what you need better than you do, after all.]

David Gaider wrote...

Which is interesting primarily due to the fact that this is something EA has said repeatedly and publicly many times to date-- all their games must have a multiplayer or online component (requirements which even DA2 satisfied). And both Mike and Mark have also spoken several times about their intention to have some form of multiplayer in the DA franchise, if not details as to what form it will take.

So, curiosity about that? Sure. Concern? Maybe, if you had anxiety about how that was going to be implented within DA, though that isn't going to be explained anytime soon-- I'm sure opinions on how you'd like to see it done are far more welcome than assumptions, though. Shock and panic? I have no idea why, unless someone wasn't paying attention.

Well here's the thing: to me even the original comments by Gibeau seemed contrary to each other, specifically because of DA2, and also a game like Diablo III (yes a different company, but the same method is there). It didn't seem to me that games that "include online applications and digital services that make them live 24/7/365" are mutually exclusive to games that are "developed as a singleplayer experience." As you say, DA2 satisfied the online component, but was a singleplayer game. However, that one line suggesting that the "singleplayer experience" as a development concept is dead, concerned people, and I believe rightly so.

Despite his later "clarification" (which does tend to make me feel better, I'll admit), he has to be aware, especially in this age of the internet, that any comments will be taken and run with accordingly, whether they are accurate or not, and also whether or not they reflect the actual intent of his statement. That's how media works now, and people of leadership positions in companies need to accept that and edit as they talk. This is the reason I usually demand sources from people on these forums when they say "Gaider said such-and-such," because people misread, misconstrue, and misrepresent what other people say all the time, and also why I keep a collection of quotes for personal use.

Before this whole debacle I was relatively OK with the idea, mainly because of Mike's comments at PAX East...

I would say that... Let me put it this way: if we're going to pursue co-op, ever, where we would start would be to take a long long hard look at how Baldur's Gate did it, that shared experience with your friends, and make sure that was priority one. Whether that's going to happen soon, in the future at some point, it [sic] really can't say right now, there are a lot of technical questions before that could really be answered. But that would be the approach we'd use. We've certainly talked about it, like you know, "How would we do it?", "Would we do something like Mass [Effect]?" which, honestly, is a very cool system. But I think that the big thing would be, take a look at Baldur's Gate, the kind of experience that that offered where you could sit down with three or four friends over the internet and just pile through some adventure together. And make sure that we nailed that. And then from there, I don't know, sky's the limit, I guess.

I was fairly confident and had adopted a "wait and see" attitude regarding MP or co-op in a future DA game. Gibeau's remarks shattered that though. But now, I'm feeling somewhat better again, all in the space of a single day.

I hate the internet sometimes.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .