224 réponses à ce sujet

[fr33stylez]

wizardryforever wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

OP I'm not sure I am following you correctly.

From my perspective, it does not matter if Starkid tells me the galaxy is ready for synthesis, or even that he is correct. I don't see how any individual can decide to impose a change on any other individual, without permission.

It would be like thinking that hot blonde in the coffee shop is ready for sex, and then, without any communication with her whatsoever, you go over and start having sex with her. It is a violation.

I think folks decide synthesis is okay, because the EC shows happy shiny beings, and there is that great speech by EDI. But how do you know that those who were changed are happy with the change? And are they happy with the change or because they were re-written, and in the re-writing of their DNA, so changed to be happy?

It is a very slippery slope, and there are no answers. Shepard is not a geneticist, she cannot know the price of synthesis, nor does she have the time to study the issue, presuming she could.

Yet here she is being asked to make a life altering decision, for trillions of beings, regarding their very genetic structure, all on the advice of a genocidal machine. And doing this without anyone's permission, I don't understand how that is not forcing a change on the galaxy, by negating the choice/free will of those you are changing.

To continue your example, attempting to sex it up with the blonde can either work, in which case you actually were right about her being ready. 

....WHAT?

I don't think you understand the objections of Synthesis and the context in which 'forced' is being used.

Allow me to clarify (and include the sentence that you snipped to quote me out of context).  "Or it could fail (probably spectacularly), indicating that you were wrong about her being ready."  This is not rape-related.  I meant this in the sense that she either cooperates and you succeed, or she doesn't cooperate and you fail.  Readiness = cooperation in this analogy.  Man, people have dark minds.

It didn't make your sentence out of context.

NO ONE COOPERATED IN SYNTHESIS. The galaxy did not say 'OK, rewrite my genetic code and everything about me and make me a synthetic-organic hybrid.

Your analogy is not applicable.

You're basically saying that even though Wolverine was experimented on without his consent, it wasn't 'forced' just because survived the adamantium infusion into his body. Apparently, it would've been only forced if he died?....

[Kamfrenchie]

Rhayak wrote...

Yes, Synthesis is forced. And yes, the results vastly compensate the absence of popular vote.
Shepard makes the leap of faith and everyone in the Galaxy is shot with green energy. Love it or hate it, now you got green DNA.

As i said sometime ago, if a mad scientist set off a bomb that did nothing except making everyone in the world immune to cancer, forever, would people **** and moan because he "didn't have the right"?

The answer is a resounding yes.... but now you can't get cancer, douchebag. Perhaps after a few generations your descendants will have grown the brains to feel thankful.

except tha wouldn't happen, because it's nonsensical.

A better comparison would be if eeryon had made peace with germany in WW2 and forced jews, homosexuals, handicaped etc. to live with the SS andtheir friends (who wouldn' have been judged for their crime)

[Ieldra]

Rhayak wrote...
Yes, Synthesis is forced. And yes, the results vastly compensate the absence of popular vote.
Shepard makes the leap of faith and everyone in the Galaxy is shot with green energy. Love it or hate it, now you got green DNA.

As i said sometime ago, if a mad scientist set off a bomb that did nothing except making everyone in the world immune to cancer, forever, would people **** and moan because he "didn't have the right"?

The answer is a resounding yes.... but now you can't get cancer, douchebag. Perhaps after a few generations your descendants will have grown the brains to feel thankful.

This sums up my thoughts about it perfectly. There's a war for survival, and Synthesis doesn't just end it, it also upgrades everyone with the ability to integrate technology and gives access to a treasure trove of knowledge that puts the sum of all Prothean beacons to shame - and people complain because they didn't ask for it. Call me a cynic, but people complaining about something good is a consequence I can live with very well.

As for the line "It cannot be forced", I interpret that as "if you're not ready, the results will be less than satisfactory or it won't work at all." It has nothing to do with the moral dimension of the decision. If you make the decision for the whole galaxy, then you force the change on everyone.

[Mcfly616]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I prefer destroy....but there's no problem with synthesis


I mean, unless you have a problem with "the Force" or "beam me up, Scotty", and the Hendrix song in Starbucks head leading to earth

its called Sci Fi....sh*t gets trippy some times, it can get out there, and some times some of it is left unexplained or up to interpretation


A lot of people on these forums, seemingly have little experience with the genre

Sometimes not all the time even the force got explained stop using that arguement sci fi is not science fantasy. Yes they do sometimes cross but not always and not without a crap ton of foreshadowing to make it work usually.
That last bit is just pretencious.

yeah....the force got explained about as much as you proclaim synthesis did. And guess what, it made no f*cking sense. I dont really care what you consider sci fi and "fantasy", as every Space Opera that has ever been created, always incorporates fantastical elements into the story.

Crap ton of foreshadowing? Ha I can think of countless instances when foreshadowing wasn't used and it was better for it.

Usually?....maybe....sometimes.....you sure you're 100% behind your argument? Because you don't seem it

"Pretencious". Oooh...I care? Lol

[Rhayak]

Kamfrenchie wrote...
A better comparison would be if eeryon had made peace with germany in WW2 and forced jews, homosexuals, handicaped etc. to live with the SS andtheir friends (who wouldn' have been judged for their crime)

You say MY example is nonsensical and come up with this rave? LOL

My example is a very easy to understand one, with analogies to Synthesis. It's unlikely to happen, but that's irrelevant.

[Kamfrenchie]

Rhayak wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...
A better comparison would be if eeryon had made peace with germany in WW2 and forced jews, homosexuals, handicaped etc. to live with the SS andtheir friends (who wouldn' have been judged for their crime)

You say MY example is nonsensical and come up with this rave? LOL

My example is a very easy to understand one, with analogies to Synthesis. It's unlikely to happen, but that's irrelevant.

yes your exampl makes no sense, jus like synthesis, because bombs donn't work like that.


And ys, you allow reapers to live next to their victims, it's pretty smilar to allowing **** war criminals to live next to their victims

[Kamfrenchie]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I prefer destroy....but there's no problem with synthesis


I mean, unless you have a problem with "the Force" or "beam me up, Scotty", and the Hendrix song in Starbucks head leading to earth

its called Sci Fi....sh*t gets trippy some times, it can get out there, and some times some of it is left unexplained or up to interpretation


A lot of people on these forums, seemingly have little experience with the genre

Sometimes not all the time even the force got explained stop using that arguement sci fi is not science fantasy. Yes they do sometimes cross but not always and not without a crap ton of foreshadowing to make it work usually.
That last bit is just pretencious.

yeah....the force got explained about as much as you proclaim synthesis did. And guess what, it made no f*cking sense. I dont really care what you consider sci fi and "fantasy", as every Space Opera that has ever been created, always incorporates fantastical elements into the story.

Crap ton of foreshadowing? Ha I can think of countless instances when foreshadowing wasn't used and it was better for it.

Usually?....maybe....sometimes.....you sure you're 100% behind your argument? Because you don't seem it

"Pretencious". Oooh...I care? Lol

I pefer Asimov

[Vigilant111]

@Catalyst: please define "ready" and "you"

[Kamfrenchie]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Rhayak wrote...
Yes, Synthesis is forced. And yes, the results vastly compensate the absence of popular vote.
Shepard makes the leap of faith and everyone in the Galaxy is shot with green energy. Love it or hate it, now you got green DNA.

As i said sometime ago, if a mad scientist set off a bomb that did nothing except making everyone in the world immune to cancer, forever, would people **** and moan because he "didn't have the right"?

The answer is a resounding yes.... but now you can't get cancer, douchebag. Perhaps after a few generations your descendants will have grown the brains to feel thankful.

This sums up my thoughts about it perfectly. There's a war for survival, and Synthesis doesn't just end it, it also upgrades everyone with the ability to integrate technology and gives access to a treasure trove of knowledge that puts the sum of all Prothean beacons to shame - and people complain because they didn't ask for it. Call me a cynic, but people complaining about something good is a consequence I can live with very well.

As for the line "It cannot be forced", I interpret that as "if you're not ready, the results will be less than satisfactory or it won't work at all." It has nothing to do with the moral dimension of the decision. If you make the decision for the whole galaxy, then you force the change on everyone.

Still nonsense, still swallowing what the ennemy says, still "you jumped int a beam you retard", still alow reapers t live after their crime, not to mmention they can still indoctrinate. Still stupid rainbow sunshine ending. I don't want synthetics parts into my body or my brain.

Think abot the cnsequences, what if someone hacks me  or my DNA ?

What about the posssibility that instantly changing everyone's DNA would be like killing them and replacing them with similar people ?

Synthesis, if it is to happen, needs to hapen naturally, notunder the threat of reapers

[elitehunter34]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This sums up my thoughts about it perfectly. There's a war for survival, and Synthesis doesn't just end it, it also upgrades everyone with the ability to integrate technology and gives access to a treasure trove of knowledge that puts the sum of all Prothean beacons to shame - and people complain because they didn't ask for it. Call me a cynic, but people complaining about something good is a consequence I can live with very well.

As for the line "It cannot be forced", I interpret that as "if you're not ready, the results will be less than satisfactory or it won't work at all." It has nothing to do with the moral dimension of the decision. If you make the decision for the whole galaxy, then you force the change on everyone.

My problem isn't that Synthesis is forced.  I do agree, if someone forced immortality and disease immunity on me I would probably say **** yes to that.  

But that's not what Synthesis is.  Trusting that Synthesis will only help organics is trusting the word of the creator of the Reapers.  A race that deliberately used orceful mind alteration along with brutal genocide and has been using those methods for over a billion years.  How can you possibly trust the words of a being who does that?  It's completely unthinkable.  Yes, I know it's been said a thousand times, the Catalyst can be trusted because it could've easily let Shepard bleed out on the platform.  However, it doing one thing to help you isn't proof that it can be trusted.  It's only proof that it let you up the platform.  Why it did that could be for many reasons.  I know that in the game, clearly the Catalyst is meant to be trusted, or at the very least the options do what the Catalyst says they do, but that's one of the reasons why I hate the endings so much.  Because it turns the leader of genocidal mind-raping machines into something that is supposed to be trusted and only wants to help you because Shepard is near the Catalyst  I just don't get why Bioware would do that.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 06 septembre 2012 - 11:59 .

[ghost9191]

Rhayak wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...
perfect sense, easy to look back at history and say hey that was the right choice. doesn't mean it is at the time. Goes for all of the choices though. but just saying

Except for Refuse, which ends history.

true enough lol, sorry for late respone. left to get drink

[Helios969]

Apparently it can be forced...MessiahShep does so.

[Andromidius]

Saying it can't be forced is a lie, designed to manipulate emotions. It most definately can, and is.

If you believe it ever happens at all, obviously.

[ghost9191]

i get that shepard, and maybe humans are ready . doubtful about humans. but what of the other races it is forced on, what if they are not ready. then will the same thing that happened to the other races that weren't ready happen to them. What happens if they are not anyways. something terrible like a husk?

[Rhayak]

yes your exampl makes no sense, jus like synthesis, because bombs donn't work like that.

Yeah, DUH, of course bombs don't work like that in reality. I'm making a WHAT IF analogy to explain my view of Synthesis. It's not hard to understand unless you're missing portions of your brain, or purposedly avoiding to use them.
Also, Synthesis happens. This is sci-fi. Pushed real hard, but still acceptable.
Seriously, is this your opposition to my point? It's not even WEAK because the word weak still implies a measure of strenght.

[Vigilant111]

Rhayak wrote...

yes your exampl makes no sense, jus like synthesis, because bombs donn't work like that.

Yeah, DUH, of course bombs don't work like that in reality. I'm making a WHAT IF analogy to explain my view of Synthesis. It's not hard to understand unless you're missing portions of your brain, or purposedly avoiding to use them.
Also, Synthesis happens. This is sci-fi. Pushed real hard, but still acceptable.
Seriously, is this your opposition to my point? It's not even WEAK because the word weak still implies a measure of strenght.

Why do you go to being offensive so early? all you ever said was "oh yeah **** happens boo hoo" but Shepard had a choice not to choose synthesis

BTW, your example is crap... you equate synthesis as something benevolent when there is no way you can ascertain that. May I ask why you didn't say that the bomb was actually for napalm instead of cancel curing? Your analogy is utter useless when it is not objective

[Kamfrenchie]

Rhayak wrote...

yes your exampl makes no sense, jus like synthesis, because bombs donn't work like that.

Yeah, DUH, of course bombs don't work like that in reality. I'm making a WHAT IF analogy to explain my view of Synthesis. It's not hard to understand unless you're missing portions of your brain, or purposedly avoiding to use them.
Also, Synthesis happens. This is sci-fi. Pushed real hard, but still acceptable.
Seriously, is this your opposition to my point? It's not even WEAK because the word weak still implies a measure of strenght.

synthesis is not acceptable sci fi andhas no explanation, that's insulting for other good sci fi author and stories.

Nd you didn't give any eason as to why my comparison is less than weak But hey, if yo believe someone to plant a bomb that will cure everyone magically,  guess there is not much way we can ave a sane debate.

I'm sorry but if Osama came to m and told me he could cure cancer with a bomb or if i killedmyself, I'd be saying BS

How is synthesis giving superpower anyway? If ynthesis is the fututre, better we atain it on our own

[Ieldra]

Kamfrenchie wrote...
synthesis is not acceptable sci fi andhas no explanation, that's insulting for other good sci fi author and stories.

That's BS. Sc fi has always experimented with the fantastic. Example: the ridiculous notion of beings made of pure energy has been around for more than 50 years. Fantastic elements work in SF if the reader can make up an explanation in his mind using in-world logic. Of course, for that you have to be willing to make the effort. If you're determined to not accept it in advance, you'll never get there.

Now, I can make up explanations of how Synthesis works, with the single exception of Shepard's role in it, which is symbolism with no roots in in-world logic, and yes, that's bad SF. The other parts are acceptable. The Crucible is, after all, ultra-technology beyond the knowledge of Citadel Civilization.

"It makes no sense" may be an honest reason for some people to reject Synthesis, but I'd bet any amount of money that in most cases it's just a handy excuse and masks a dislike based on less rational reasons.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:18 .

[Kamfrenchie]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...
synthesis is not acceptable sci fi andhas no explanation, that's insulting for other good sci fi author and stories.

That's BS. Sc fi has always experimented with the fantastic. Example: the ridiculous notion of beings made of pure energy has been around for more than 50 years. Fantastic elements work in SF if the reader can make up an explanation in his mind using in-world logic. Of course, for that you have to be willing to make the effort. If you're determined to not accept it in advance, you'll never get there.

Now, I can make up explanations of how Synthesis works, with the single exception of Shepard's role in it, which is symbolism with no roots in in-world logic, and yes, that's bad SF. The other parts are acceptable. The Crucible is, after all, ultra-technology beyond the knowledge of Citadel Civilization.

"It makes no sense" may be an honest reason for some people to reject Synthesis, but I'd bet any amount of money that in most cases it's just a handy excuse and masks a dislike based on less rational reasons.

synthsis is just far above the tech level of all races in ME3, even rapers, but yeah, it being "space magic"  (although the term is insulting to magic) is only 1 reason.

Again, reaper survive, this is unnacceptable. Mass eugenics witout consent, implying the problem i the people body while it is imo the thinking, + lack of foeshadowing, +everyone live happly eve after bs

"I am alive " as if she wasn't before, etc

Oh, and the catalyst is terrible in every  way, even stoytelling wise

[Codename_Code]

It means that they need to convince you to accept it trough indoctrination first

[Rhayak]

Shepard had a choice not to choose synthesis

Uh, yeah, and water is wet. That doesn't really work to disprove my point.

BTW, your example is crap... you equate synthesis as something benevolent when there is no way you can ascertain that.

Actually, there is no way to ascertain it isn't. In the ending cinematic, Synthesis IS benevolent. Period. The only thing you can do is entrench yourself in the baseless assumption that the populace gets brainwashed, like most Synthesis bashers do. That and/or some up with inconsistent headcanon.

May I ask why you didn't say that the bomb was actually for napalm instead of cancel curing? Your analogy is utter useless when it is not objective

Uh.... because if i said napalm, THEN it wouldn't have been objective. Duh.

Seriously where the hell is TAO? She'd oppose me but at least she'd understand.

[JesseLee202]

This thread need Taboo.

[DirtyPhoenix]

JesseLee202 wrote...

This thread need pirate1802.

Agreed.

[JesseLee202]

pirate1802 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

This thread need pirate1802.

Agreed.

NO. This thread needs to die.