113 réponses à ce sujet

[Ozida]

A Poll maybe would be good too?

[ghost9191]

Wayning_Star wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Waayning_Star

yeah well same for me. was one reason i didn't pick it, because without metagaming there was way too many unknowns with it. idk might be the "best" option but just not for me. safer to just blow the bastards up i guess, too much risk in other, still risk in destroy but ends the immediate threat

that is if i followed you. at first u seemed against it, but then for it so yeah

that is, I am not 'against' it as much as I am 'for it, sythesis that is. The other choices,for some reason, have their risks printed out plainly, one actually has a big 'bewary' posted just on top of it.  To me, synthesis is merely a sharing, not a demand, so much as detractors insist it 'controls',eventhough it does to some extent. I would gather it to be more in the trend of guiding by inclusion. Makes a lessor of four evils for synthesis. I'm not of the opionion that it is 'oppressive', no more than a better idea would be. But it's not totally acceptable, but then the dying by degrees instituted by a super power is totally oppressive,eventually for everything concerned in the MEU. Down to that last molecule of resources, demanded by all races. So it's in the best interest for all concerned to share reality, rather than fight over it.
 

fair enough

and well maybe the catalyst just choose to be vague for a reason

[ghost9191]

guacamayus wrote...

I think synthesis just needed to be explained in greater detail, as far as who represents each choice you have to remember both Anderson and Hackett did not talk to the catalyst, they didn't actually know there was other options available it's only natural they kept talking about destroying the reapers through the course of the game, when presented with new information, specially when that information potentially changes everything, any rational person would consider changing their mind.

eh idk, they knew control was a option. just figured crucible would do one thing. And i don't think hackett and anderson are good examples. They saw one threat and the means to destroy the threat, and they were biased  against geth. THey both lost ppl to them. I mean FFS they killed jenkins

[Mercedes-Benz]

Yes.

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

i don't know, but i mean does it not combine the two in some way. as edi says. " as the lines between organic and synthetic blur" from what i got it just seems like they make the two more like the other in order to remove differences. and make peace

but this is just about the catalysts problem, that the only way to make peace is to remove what makes them different or whatever, or so i got ., or by making them more alike idk. just what i thought synthesis did. But again this is mainly about how this fixes the catalyst problem. not so much the choice itself. Just how it fixes synthetic organic disagreements

One can make organics and synthetics similar without removing the base characteristics of what makes them organics and synthetics.

About his problem, I give teh middle finger to his problem. He can tell me destroy solves his problem and brings eternal utopia, I'd still stick with synthesis:O But giving it somethought, how making us similar to each other results in less war, is a long process. Long story short, organics create synthetics to do what they cannot, because their physical bodies are imperfect. Then they go to war because they don't understand each other; they view synthetics with fear. Synthesis grants organics means to develop beyond their physical limitations and synthetics an understanding of prganic nature, thus reducing the chances of war.

But as I said, this is not my motivations to pick synthesis. And according to a poll I saw, alot of synthesizers don't buy the catalyst's reasoning either. They pick synthesis for its own benefits, not to solves its little "problem."

yeah , which i was just trying to figure out why it would solve the catalysts problem. And i know they can still retain what they were in some way, but it does seem to make them less human or asari. well more then human anyways. kinda like a cybord is not very human anymore . i get the reasons though, heard that brat say them. humans seek perfection through machines and synthetic seek understanding and all,  But i just feel like to do that kinda changes what organics and synthetics are.  Takes away what makes them unique , i mean organics and synthetics, not races and stuff

or something like that. just me though

Yep that was my point anyway. that you can become more than human without becoming less human O_o

[ghost9191]

@pirate1802

yeah , guess that could be my biggest issue , just wouldn't want that forced on me . prefer my humanity the way it is, with flaws and such.

but sometimes you don't have a choice in the matter. just like geth don't have a choice in my choice lol . so any way you look at it , all choices are good and bad

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

I think synthesis just needed to be explained in greater detail, as far as who represents each choice you have to remember both Anderson and Hackett did not talk to the catalyst, they didn't actually know there was other options available it's only natural they kept talking about destroying the reapers through the course of the game, when presented with new information, specially when that information potentially changes everything, any rational person would consider changing their mind.

eh idk, they knew control was a option. just figured crucible would do one thing. And i don't think hackett and anderson are good examples. They saw one threat and the means to destroy the threat, and they were biased  against geth. THey both lost ppl to them. I mean FFS they killed jenkins

They didn't seriously believe control was an option, not Anderson anyway. Hackett was told by Shepard after Horizon how TIM developed a way to control reaper ground forces and they wondered if the process can be used on the reapers themselves aand the implications. So neither of them, and I suspect no one outside Cerberus knew Controlling the reapers was a real and legit option.

@guacamayus: Agreed. Synthesis just needed to be fleshed out and better integrated into the game rather than eliminated altogather. BTW, I think they should have shown Legion jumping into the beam like they showed TIM and Andy in those little psychic flashes Shep had. Legio would make a perfect Synthesis avatar IMO, he himself instituted mini-Synthesis on his race on Rannoch afterall.

ghost9191 wrote...

@pirate1802

yeah , guess that
could be my biggest issue , just wouldn't want that forced on me .
prefer my humanity the way it is, with flaws and such.

but
sometimes you don't have a choice in the matter. just like geth don't
have a choice in my choice lol . so any way you look at it , all choices
are good and bad

Too late. You are the perfect person to jump into the beam. Prepare this human for acsension!

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[ghost9191]

pirate1802 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

I think synthesis just needed to be explained in greater detail, as far as who represents each choice you have to remember both Anderson and Hackett did not talk to the catalyst, they didn't actually know there was other options available it's only natural they kept talking about destroying the reapers through the course of the game, when presented with new information, specially when that information potentially changes everything, any rational person would consider changing their mind.

eh idk, they knew control was a option. just figured crucible would do one thing. And i don't think hackett and anderson are good examples. They saw one threat and the means to destroy the threat, and they were biased  against geth. THey both lost ppl to them. I mean FFS they killed jenkins

They didn't seriously believe control was an option, not Anderson anyway. Hackett was told by Shepard after Horizon how TIM developed a way to control reaper ground forces and they wondered if the process can be used on the reapers themselves aand the implications. So neither of them, and I suspect no one outside Cerberus knew Controlling the reapers was a real and legit option.

@guacamayus: Agreed. Synthesis needed to be fleshed out and better integrated into the game. BTW, I think they should have shown Legion jumping into the beam like they showed TIM and Andy in those little psychic flashes Shep had. Legio would make a perfect Synthesis avatar IMO, he himself instituted mini-Synthesis on his race on Rannoch afterall.

i am gonna disagree there, anderson at the end was arguing against control. way of thinking. reapers were the enemy , destroy was the means to end them, simple choice .

and well i think ( at least ME2 legion) synthesis would go against its beliefs , the whole geth choose their own future thing


And LOL  At your last comment pirate

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

but sometimes you don't have a choice in the matter. just like geth don't have a choice in my choice lol . so any way you look at it , all choices are good and bad

Indeed. Thats a very important thing you said there. Shepard dies completely in synthesis, but like I told you, I intend to headcanon revive him, and he would suffer from similar guilt about forcing the choice on the galaxy as your destroy!shep would probably have about genociding the geth. There's simply no easy way out of war, you take unpleasant choices and it changes you, as I see it.

[ghost9191]

yeah , luckily it is just shepard that has to live with the choice, same as hopefully ppl won't judge the whole species on one woman or mans actions. which goes with destroy, hopefully future synthetics and such don't hate organics because one person decided to sacrifice synthetics to save organics.

so yeah think shepard is one person that can make that choice, and live with it

[DirtyPhoenix]

The Quarians left him with no choice tbh. It was either accept reaper upgrades or die. Poor thing found himself in a similar desperate situation as Shepard at the end.

[Parabolee77]

Yes. a LOT better.

I can accept Control as a renegade ending, and Refuse is awesome. But I find Synth offensive on so many levels. But the main one would be that it defies any kind of logic that it would even be possible.

Which is why I can only accept IT as an explanation as to that choice. It can only happen in Shepard's head as an hallucination, because space magic changing all life and all technology into a hybrid is patently absurd.

[ghost9191]

yeah suppose, just wish there was a way to convince the quarians to stand down before, but legion did want the upgrades , saw what it was like and wished for it

[DirtyPhoenix]

Which is why F**king hate Quarians, except Tali. In one playthrough I purposefully let the Geth blast the into extinction lol. Their stupidity is behind all this Geth-Quarian mess.

Maybe Legion's perspective changed. People's mindset change/evolve all the time. Like mine changed after EC. Pre-EC I didn't liek Synthesis. Post EC, I saw what it is like, and now want it!

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 septembre 2012 - 03:12 .

[Saans Shadow]

No, I prefer Synthesis to all the other endings. Like some have said on here I see it as opening up forms of communication between organics and synthetics on a level not previously possible so each form of life can better understand each other. I have no reason to believe that it brainwashed anybody either. What I take away from the line about how the line of organic and synthetic life is "blurred" I see that as people moving away from the distinction of organic and synthetic and just see either as alive, a living being, making the difference of being either irrelevant. This next bit is what I personally believe and best makes sense of synthesis to me. The new framework the catalyst talks about in DNA is the augmentation of integrated tech at a molecular level and not completely rewriting the DNA as some tend to believe therefor giving us synthetic traits. As for synthetics gaining the organic mindset and understanding true emotions and organic way of thinking I have to think of what an organic brain is essentially at least on human terms. We are directed by extremely advanced bio-molecular computers and the cells in the brain use an electrochemical process to communicate and essentially make you who you are. Granted ours are also influenced by metabolism and biochemistry and hormones. The possibility of using a brain functionality as a framework to give synthetic lifeforms the ability to feel true emotions and grasp organic thinking is very real as far as I'm concerned albeit extremely advanced process not even remotely possible by today's science. But the catalyst? It essentially has the technology to do it but needed the crucible to implement it on the scale that it needed both at the micro and macroscopic. It also needed the willingness of one organic to, quite literally, make that leap of faith for a brighter future, one where organics and synthetics could truly understand one another. For synthesis to work it needed someone with a mindset, again going back to the brain, to sacrifice itself not only for organics but also synthetics for it to work. As far as foreshadowing I saw hints at it during the Rannoch phase of the game, especially after when Tali said that Geth were integrating into the suits of the Quarians but I only saw the hints after I chose synthesis.
Do I see this wiping out all conflict? No. I do think it will reduce conflict on a galactic scale however and who knows what's waiting for us in other galaxies. Not only do we now have a united galaxy we also have the entire collective knowledge of past cultures to help prepare us for what's out there.

In any case this is how I see it and expect nobody to completely agree with me (this is after all BSN) lol

[DirtyPhoenix]

I agree with you Saans Shadow You pretty much mirrored my views on synthesis.

[Bfler]

pirate1802 wrote...

Which is why F**king hate Quarians, except Tali. In one playthrough I purposefully let the Geth blast the into extinction lol. Their stupidity is behind all this Geth-Quarian mess.

Did you ever speak with Dorn'Hazt during the mission where you have to save Koris?

[Saans Shadow]

pirate1802 wrote...

I agree with you Saans Shadow You pretty much mirrored my views on synthesis.

Hooray \\o/ 

[ghost9191]

@Saans

yeah and i get that. just meant that what makes organics organics and synthetics synthetics is pretty much changed, would just prefer it be more like accepting them for what they are, and to keep them as such. What makes them that , and by that i mean what makes them synthetic and organic.

get how synthesis is a viable option, and all that was just purely voicing my reasons and how i took it. more to it but was mainly talking about the lines blurring

just seems to remove organics and synthetics , what makes them organic and synthetic anyways. be nice to have that option but not forced on the whole galaxy

and what happens if someone is not ready, i mean shepard being ready is one thing , but can s/he speak for the whole galaxy. what of the animals and such. not addressed just to use saans , just a question

[Saans Shadow]

@ghost

I can definitely see where you are coming from.  As far as forcing it on people that's the moral/ethical part of synthesis but all the endings have that price-tag attached.  I do think at one point in ME2 if you chose the right dialogue options even legion said we were heading down a similar path of the Reapers and so were the Geth.  The ultimate goal of the game was to end the Reaper threat, in synth you do that and give evolution a little push at the same time :innocent:

[CronoDragoon]

Synthesis as an option is fine, but I have problems with it being presented as the favorable option - and not by just the Catalyst but the game mechanics. Instead of having Synthesis as the middle option, have Shepard elevator up to a circular ring on which the options are spread equidistant around Shepard.

[JeffZero]

Speaking of presentation, is there any way to make Shepard NOT say "there has to be another way..." following the Catalyst's explanation of Destroy? That's just such a forced line considering all the folks who prefer Destroy. >_>

Modifié par JeffZero, 06 septembre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Chashan]

pirate1802 wrote...

Which is why F**king hate Quarians, except Tali. In one playthrough I purposefully let the Geth blast the into extinction lol. Their stupidity is behind all this Geth-Quarian mess.

Maybe Legion's perspective changed. People's mindset change/evolve all the time. Like mine changed after EC. Pre-EC I didn't liek Synthesis. Post EC, I saw what it is like, and now want it!

The exact opposite is the case for me; I just look past Synthesis on a merely aesthetic level. The bad way and bad taste in which it is done - hallo friendly husk-neighbour, hallo big bad good Reaper-fella, 'sup? - just makes it a non-choice for me.

Which is not to say that I mind its existence from a motivation-perspective as much as I mind Control; with Control, it is a matter of fitting aesthetics and just horrid motivation behind it at work. The same is true of Green, sure, but it is even worse with Control, as the game railed us into direct opposition to the SS-goon squad that is Team TIM and their agenda of dystopic domination of the galaxy at gruesome cost; the way Control's ambiente is realized in that regard appears very fitting to me, and kind of reminds me of how the God-Emperor choice of Jade Empire was done.
In short, if it were left up to me I would kick Control out the window, although I can accept it as the definite d-bag-choice in the spirit of the aforementioned God-Emperordom of JE. And whip the staff into reworking Green into something more aesthetically pleasing and subtle. As well as accomodating a rematerialisation-scene of Shepard-Commanders at an undisclosed location.
And have another slide added to Red that shows Quarians being busy reactivating their Servants of All, while we are at it.

[ghost9191]

fair enough

@Saans

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 septembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[ghost9191]

JeffZero wrote...

Speaking of presentation, is there any way to make Shepard NOT say "there has to be another way..." following the Catalyst's explanation of Destroy? That's just such a forced line considering all the folks who prefer Destroy. >_>

yeah thought the same,,

wished for the option to just cool lets blow these fu*ks up and when it tries to talk more just say f*ck off

just seemed like it was a bad choice, which it might be but still