266 réponses à ce sujet

[BiO]

Please, go read the additional ME content, like the books or the comics. If you don't have access to those, don't want to waste money on something you may not like, at least go read their plot on the wikias. Quite frankly, most of the ****ing on this forum is because some key points were made in the books and comics, and most players aren't aware of them. The most popular one, thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong, is expanded on Evolution. Or that Omega is built by the Reapers in Retribution.

[LanceSolous13]

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

The games themselves should have all the information you need to understand it. If something important happened in one of the books that effects the main game, then I need to know what happened, why it happened, and what the consequences are of what happened.

If the audience is having to ask questions, you've failed as a writer. I'm sorry for how harsh that sounds but the point to being an author is to clearly convey messages and story and asking questions shows that they either didn't state something clearly or didn't state what they needed to in the first place.

[AlexMBrennan]

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

[BiO]

While I'm not going to defend Bioware on it's writing, part of the fault is in the fans, too. Because they take everything show in ME3 at face value. Everything that is stated in the books can be assumed from in-game facts as well.

TIM turned on Shepard? He's indoctrinated. Why were the Protheans never harvested? Artistic Integrity. Just a small example.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Yes, and the Catalyst is completely right as well. TIM decided to implant himself with the same Reaper nanites that were used by the Collectors to allow Harbinger direct control, the same ones used on Grayson in Retribution. TIM asumed that with the knowledge from Sanctuary, he may be able to directly communicate with the Reapers without being indoctrinated - in the end his will was not strong enough, and he fell under their control.

[iSousek]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

[EnvyTB075]

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

[BiO]

iSousek wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

The Veluvian priests are not a normal form of indoctrination. TIM was not fully transformed, which allowed him to retain his identity, but it also showed him what the Reapers planned. Everything TIM does after that is to thwart the Reapers, not their arrival, but their cycle of harvest. Which is why he never told Shepard about the Alpha Relay, but instead targeted him at the Collectors.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

Okay, so it's bad writing. Are you going to try and understand it, or are you going to **** about it? Which is more productive to this board?

Modifié par BiO_MaN, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:58 .

[Ozida]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

^ This. I wasn't even aware of books before finishing ME3 and tried paying attention to what was happening within the game I was playing.

[DJRackham]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

QFT!

I should not have to refer to sources outside the game for relevant in game information.

[fchopin]

BiO_MaN wrote...

While I'm not going to defend Bioware on it's writing, part of the fault is in the fans, too. Because they take everything show in ME3 at face value. Everything that is stated in the books can be assumed from in-game facts as well.

TIM turned on Shepard? He's indoctrinated. Why were the Protheans never harvested? Artistic Integrity. Just a small example.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Yes, and the Catalyst is completely right as well. TIM decided to implant himself with the same Reaper nanites that were used by the Collectors to allow Harbinger direct control, the same ones used on Grayson in Retribution. TIM asumed that with the knowledge from Sanctuary, he may be able to directly communicate with the Reapers without being indoctrinated - in the end his will was not strong enough, and he fell under their control.

Something similar was in the game so i do not see anything different.

[BiO]

Ozida wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

^ This. I wasn't even aware of books before finishing ME3 and tried paying attention to what was happening within the game I was playing.

So instead of reading up on the wikia about what else there could be to help you understand the plot, you instead decide to go to BSN and complain about how ****ty everything was.

DJRackham wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

QFT!

I should not have to refer to sources outside the game for relevant in game information.

Mass Effect is more than just the three games, wether you want it to be or not. Like I said, I am not going to defend Bioware's writing here, because the short dev time is the reason they were not able to flesh out their ideas, but you're just as much to blame here if you don't want to investigate further before complaining on the forums.

Modifié par BiO_MaN, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:03 .

[Hicks233]

BiO_MaN wrote...

iSousek wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

The Veluvian priests are not a normal form of indoctrination. TIM was not fully transformed, which allowed him to retain his identity, but it also showed him what the Reapers planned. Everything TIM does after that is to thwart the Reapers, not their arrival, but their cycle of harvest. Which is why he never told Shepard about the Alpha Relay, but instead targeted him at the Collectors.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

Okay, so it's bad writing. Are you going to try and understand it, or are you going to **** about it? Which is more productive to this board?

Much rather complain.

If you let sloppy writing slide then it sends the message that it is acceptable.

[Star fury]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

Absolutely.

[drayfish]

Oh yeah: well how come my space fish died?!

...Oh, right. I need to feed them.

Sorry.



Also: I agree with most of the posters here. If you are not selling a complete narrative package without added dlc explanations, tie-in novels, comic expansions and twitter feeds, there is something wrong with your storytelling capacity, not your audience's attention span.

[BiO]

Hicks233 wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

iSousek wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

The Veluvian priests are not a normal form of indoctrination. TIM was not fully transformed, which allowed him to retain his identity, but it also showed him what the Reapers planned. Everything TIM does after that is to thwart the Reapers, not their arrival, but their cycle of harvest. Which is why he never told Shepard about the Alpha Relay, but instead targeted him at the Collectors.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

Okay, so it's bad writing. Are you going to try and understand it, or are you going to **** about it? Which is more productive to this board?

Much rather complain.

If you let sloppy writing slide then it sends the message that it is acceptable.

I don't have anything against constructive criticism. What I am seeing on this board is not it. It's childish complaining.

drayfish wrote...

 If you are not selling a complete narrative package without added dlc explanations, tie-in novels, comic expansions and twitter feeds, there is something wrong with your storytelling capacity, not your audience's attention span.

I think both are at fault here.

Modifié par BiO_MaN, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:05 .

[SpamBot2000]

Star fury wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

If a games story needs other media to fill in the vast majority of the blanks, its a bad story.

Period.

Absolutely.

This.

[WindfishDude]

Bad writing is one thing.

But bad writing, build around plot points introduced in 'Extended Universe' material such as comics or books is just flat out retarded.

I don't read the book or comics. I'm a fan of the games. You want to flesh out the ME universe through other media, that's FINE. But don't make that required reading.

If your are correct, OP, them you just managed to make Bioware's writing EVEN WORSE in my eyes. Good job.

[Obadiah]

BIO_MaN, your posts aren't exactly the most constructive either. Perhaps you should add a link to whatever article it is in the wikia that explains whatever it is you think everyone is complaining about.

[bboynexus]

Bio_Man, my old friend, I agree with you on most counts.

It is, indeed, a common misconception that the Illusive Man was indoctrinated throughout Mass Effect 3. That assumption is patently false. He only falls under Reaper influence after he implants himself towards the end, as you say yourself.

It is very important, first of all, people recognize that there are two distinct forms of Indoctrination going on throughout ME3; Reaper Indoctrination and Cerberus Indoctrination.

[KiwiQuiche]

'Cause putting important plot points in the actual game is stupid, eh? Better put it in outside media, no one will be confused then!

[iSousek]

BiO_MaN wrote...

iSousek wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

The Veluvian priests are not a normal form of indoctrination. TIM was not fully transformed, which allowed him to retain his identity, but it also showed him what the Reapers planned. Everything TIM does after that is to thwart the Reapers, not their arrival, but their cycle of harvest. Which is why he never told Shepard about the Alpha Relay, but instead targeted him at the Collectors.

Yes, as I said, Evolution does not exclude the possibility of TIM being indoctrinated. He was in a presence of the reaper artifact, and even more than that.

[BiO]

iSousek wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

iSousek wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong

Catalyst outright tells you this in the ending so I think you might be mistaken here.

Evolution doesn't prove that TIM is NOT indoctrinated. If anything it hints the opposite.

The Veluvian priests are not a normal form of indoctrination. TIM was not fully transformed, which allowed him to retain his identity, but it also showed him what the Reapers planned. Everything TIM does after that is to thwart the Reapers, not their arrival, but their cycle of harvest. Which is why he never told Shepard about the Alpha Relay, but instead targeted him at the Collectors.

Yes, as I said, Evolution does not exclude the possibility of TIM being indoctrinated. He was in a presence of the reaper artifact, and even more than that.

If TIM was indoctrinated, why the hell did he revive Shepard and pit him against the collectors?

[Ozida]

BiO_MaN wrote...

Ozida wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...
If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

^ This. I wasn't even aware of books before finishing ME3 and tried paying attention to what was happening within the game I was playing.

So instead of reading up on the wikia about what else there could be to help you understand the plot, you instead decide to go to BSN and complain about how ****ty everything was.

First of all, please watch yout tone. I have as much rights to come here and express my opinion regarding the game as everyone else. You are not the person to complain about me complaining.

Secondly, why on Earth do I need to look for supporting materials to full-fill plotholes in a game? Should I also buy T-Shirt because, you know, they can contain some secret messages explaining Starkid nonsense as well? How would I know that there is so much important stuff to be found outside the game prior to playing ME3? Of course I've read all that stuff AFTER I finished the game, but I really shouldn't have to do it BEFORE playing ME3 to understand the key points of the plot.

Modifié par Ozida, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[DJRackham]

If the information is important to the game it should be included in the body of the game and not sold in out of game comics, novels, or sold as DLC content.