266 réponses à ce sujet

[BiO]

Blueprotoss wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

bboynexus wrote...

No, as he has said repeatedly throughout this thread, it's BIOWARE'S fault. Nonetheless, he validly points out that regardless of who is at fault, othe rmaterial should NOT be disregarded based on some idealistic principle at the expense of informed discussion.

I'd just like to expand a little on this - I don't condemnt Bioware for ME3's fail, I blame EA. Bioware's fail is a by-product from that.

Yet the expanded universe n ME was started under by Micorsoft not EA if you want to walk that road.

I did respond to this point before in this thread - the release of the books and comics happened after the release of ME1, before the release of ME2 - at this point Bioware's publisher was EA. Heck, they even published ME1 on PC, but that's beside the point.

If you want to get really picky about release dates, the first Mass Effect book was a prequel to ME1 and everything in it was background, nothing critical to understanding the core plot of the game.

[Rudy Lis]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Think of the Catalyst as a guiding hand instead of a general in the military.

Catalyst doesn't fit into description received in ME1, so for me it is a byproduct of Shepard's muptiple head traumas (about 12 only during course of ME3). No smilies, because I know how bad that is.

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Conduit was sabotaged especially when Sovreign had to physically access it.

Full stop. Why the Conduit? Isn't it just Ilos-Citadel relay? Yes, it could be sabotaged after Sovereign docked to Citadel's spire and began his dance Penny Arcade style Citadel's molesting moves, but arent' Protheans used Conduit to get to Citadel after Reapers departed to sabotage some sort of "receiver" on Citadel, that very one opening Citadel's relay for surprise attack?

Blueprotoss wrote...

Its up to individuals to buy a game in general whether its the normal edition or one of the collector editions.

Okay, "ME3 doesn't worth 60 bucks". Any better?
I bought CE for Valiant. He alone is worth 20 bucks, hands down! Remove Valiant from game and... yeah, they owe me some money.

Blueprotoss wrote...

If you're really going to measure dollar for dollar on quality then thats a losing battle especially when anything tech related is downgraded upon release and this happens on a daily basis.  Also games degraded over time that will decrease its value just like everything eventualy does.  

Not necessary, some products retain their price for long time. Some of them - deserve that. Some - don't. Of course, everything will drop in price, occasionally, but I evaluate product quality at release day (minus ArmA, that game is too big to be in working condition without massive post-release community polishing) at "melee suggested retain price".  Since I was of few who actually finished ME3 at release day (well, in 25 hours after release time), I doubt it managed to drop in price that fast.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Personally I judge CE differently then the normal editions because I'm focused on the extra not the game itself.

I don't. Technically it is same game, even if some "CE only" stuff inside (and as practice shows, it will be made available for everybody later). When I buy CE, I don't buy it for all that "trivia" or "merchandise" inside, it means nothing to me. It could be nice addition, but that's all. So I buy CE when I really like game, trust developer and, as stupid as it sounds, want to support him.

Until they deplete their trust limit, of course.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Everyone has some bias in them.

Well, I have bias toward bad, poorly polished, poorly maintained, overpriced games with horrible support and rude, arrogant personnel from developer side.

Blueprotoss wrote...

For starters I judge every game separately like how ME1 was the beginning, ME2 was the middle, and ME3 as the end.  I also did one playthrough for each of the games.  

I tried this approach. I agree, ss stand-alone game ME3 is just overpriced mediocre game at best, but as ending of the trilogy it is even worse.

Blueprotoss wrote...

I guess another reason could be me being disappointed with the lack of RPG elements in ME2.

Lack of RPG elements? I'd say all three games lack them. Because for me, RPG elements are not those numbers, abilities' scores, skills, saving throws, whatever. Because if consider those "points distributions" as such, we'll end naming Diablo and Jedi Knight as RPGs as well (yeah, I've read Diablo being marketed as one, but I've read many other bullschitt in my life) - "hey, you can choose Grip over Throw, that's RPG!" Nah, doesn't works for me.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Even when Starcraft is heavily balanced the Singeplayer usually isn't touched by the Multiplayer changes.

Well, that's good approach. Although nerfing blessed hammer was bad idea.

[The Smitchens]

BiO_MaN wrote...

Please, go read the additional ME content, like the books or the comics. If you don't have access to those, don't want to waste money on something you may not like, at least go read their plot on the wikias. Quite frankly, most of the ****ing on this forum is because some key points were made in the books and comics, and most players aren't aware of them. The most popular one, thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong, is expanded on Evolution. Or that Omega is built by the Reapers in Retribution.

I think a lot of people just want to play dumb so they can act like there are more problems than there really are.  You can't complain when you realize there are explanations out there.

The Mass Effect franchise has its problems, I'll be the first to admit that.  Just like any other work of fiction.  But anyone capable of following a narrative can see the problems aren't nearly as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

[Blueprotoss]

BiO_MaN wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

bboynexus wrote...

No, as he has said repeatedly throughout this thread, it's BIOWARE'S fault. Nonetheless, he validly points out that regardless of who is at fault, othe rmaterial should NOT be disregarded based on some idealistic principle at the expense of informed discussion.

I'd just like to expand a little on this - I don't condemnt Bioware for ME3's fail, I blame EA. Bioware's fail is a by-product from that.

Yet the expanded universe n ME was started under by Micorsoft not EA if you want to walk that road.

I did respond to this point before in this thread - the release of the books and comics happened after the release of ME1, before the release of ME2 - at this point Bioware's publisher was EA. Heck, they even published ME1 on PC, but that's beside the point.

If you want to get really picky about release dates, the first Mass Effect book was a prequel to ME1 and everything in it was background, nothing critical to understanding the core plot of the game.

ME2 was in pre-production under Microsoft.

[Blueprotoss]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Catalyst doesn't fit into description received in ME1, so for me it is a byproduct of Shepard's muptiple head traumas (about 12 only during course of ME3). No smilies, because I know how bad that is.

How is that when the Conduit wasn't accessable and no Reaper proclaimed themselves as a leader.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Full stop. Why the Conduit? Isn't it just Ilos-Citadel relay? Yes, it could be sabotaged after Sovereign docked to Citadel's spire and began his dance Penny Arcade style Citadel's molesting moves, but arent' Protheans used Conduit to get to Citadel after Reapers departed to sabotage some sort of "receiver" on Citadel, that very one opening Citadel's relay for surprise attack?

The Conduit was on the Citadel and thats what Sovreign was trying to access.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Not necessary, some products retain their price for long time. Some of them - deserve that. Some - don't. Of course, everything will drop in price, occasionally, but I evaluate product quality at release day (minus ArmA, that game is too big to be in working condition without massive post-release community polishing) at "melee suggested retain price".  Since I was of few who actually finished ME3 at release day (well, in 25 hours after release time), I doubt it managed to drop in price that fast.

Video games don't retain their price even when its sealed and you still need a decent amount of demand even with a very low supply.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

I don't. Technically it is same game, even if some "CE only" stuff inside (and as practice shows, it will be made available for everybody later). When I buy CE, I don't buy it for all that "trivia" or "merchandise" inside, it means nothing to me. It could be nice addition, but that's all. So I buy CE when I really like game, trust developer and, as stupid as it sounds, want to support him.

I also CE when I like the series,trust the developer, and what the extras.

Rudy Lis wrote... 
Until they deplete their trust limit, of course.

Maybe.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Well, I have bias toward bad, poorly polished, poorly maintained, overpriced games with horrible support and rude, arrogant personnel from developer side. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

I see the sarcasm there.  

Rudy Lis wrote... 

I tried this approach. I agree, ss stand-alone game ME3 is just overpriced mediocre game at best, but as ending of the trilogy it is even worse.

$60 is still a great deal just with a 20 to 30 hour game just in the Singleplayer with one walkthrough.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Lack of RPG elements? I'd say all three games lack them. Because for me, RPG elements are not those numbers, abilities' scores, skills, saving throws, whatever. Because if consider those "points distributions" as such, we'll end naming Diablo and Jedi Knight as RPGs as well (yeah, I've read Diablo being marketed as one, but I've read many other bullschitt in my life) - "hey, you can choose Grip over Throw, that's RPG!" Nah, doesn't works for me.

I guess video games can't trump PnP while I wouldn't be surprised with what people say these days.

Rudy Lis wrote... 
Well, that's good approach. Although nerfing blessed hammer was bad idea.

Agreed.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:22 .

[Blueprotoss]

The Smitchens wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

Please, go read the additional ME content, like the books or the comics. If you don't have access to those, don't want to waste money on something you may not like, at least go read their plot on the wikias. Quite frankly, most of the ****ing on this forum is because some key points were made in the books and comics, and most players aren't aware of them. The most popular one, thinking that TIM is indoctrinated, which is completely wrong, is expanded on Evolution. Or that Omega is built by the Reapers in Retribution.

I think a lot of people just want to play dumb so they can act like there are more problems than there really are.  You can't complain when you realize there are explanations out there.

The Mass Effect franchise has its problems, I'll be the first to admit that.  Just like any other work of fiction.  But anyone capable of following a narrative can see the problems aren't nearly as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

This very true and I think its also that some people wanted perfection.

[Jvolikas]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

The games themselves should have all the information you need to understand it. If something important happened in one of the books that effects the main game, then I need to know what happened, why it happened, and what the consequences are of what happened.

If the audience is having to ask questions, you've failed as a writer. I'm sorry for how harsh that sounds but the point to being an author is to clearly convey messages and story and asking questions shows that they either didn't state something clearly or didn't state what they needed to in the first place.

This.  We are already paying $60 (some of us paid $80 for the CE), we shouldnt have to invest anything else in order to have a full understanding of the content (and the wiki excuse is crap because you still have to invest time to do that which shouldnt be required either)

[Blueprotoss]

Jvolikas wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

The games themselves should have all the information you need to understand it. If something important happened in one of the books that effects the main game, then I need to know what happened, why it happened, and what the consequences are of what happened.

If the audience is having to ask questions, you've failed as a writer. I'm sorry for how harsh that sounds but the point to being an author is to clearly convey messages and story and asking questions shows that they either didn't state something clearly or didn't state what they needed to in the first place.

This.  We are already paying $60 (some of us paid $80 for the CE), we shouldnt have to invest anything else in order to have a full understanding of the content (and the wiki excuse is crap because you still have to invest time to do that which shouldnt be required either)

DLC is still optional and nobody is putting a gun to your head.

[Rudy Lis]

Blueprotoss wrote...

How is that when the Conduit wasn't accessable and no Reaper proclaimed themselves as a leader.

Why leader? Sovereign said something about independent, each a nation. Who leads Geth? Greater good?
Not sure where Conduit fits here, really.

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Conduit was on the Citadel and thats what Sovreign was trying to access.

Strange. I have impression that Conduit is what Protheans built to get access to Citadel and used (indirectly) to ban Reaper's access to Citadel by broad range of IP.
What I'm not sure - if "transmitting" (Ilos') side of relay could be built by Protheans, where the hell receiving (Citadel's) side get from. Since Keepers gave a wide berth to it, it apparently not original design (compare with dialogue of pair, IIRC human female and salarian, near Consort chambers, about Keepers constantly rearrenging female's room.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Video games don't retain their price even when its sealed and you still need a decent amount of demand even with a very low supply.

Well, it's not premium grade weapon, yes, they don't retain prices that well, I admit. But few games I purchased lost much less of their price, than ME3, despite being released before it.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Maybe.

...you'll think of me when you are all alone?

Blueprotoss wrote...

I see the sarcasm there.  

Only harsh truth, nothing more. *Casavir pokerface engaged* 

Blueprotoss wrote...

$60 is still a great deal just with a 20 to 30 hour game just in the Singleplayer with one walkthrough.

Great deal is 20-30 bucks, depending on playtime, required for playthrough, without delaying game to prolongue it. Or where prolongation is part of gameplay, if game is about travel, i.e. process, not destination, i.e. "ending cutscene". Only if game is naturally good (not to mention great, true masterpiece), then yes, it deserves higher tag.
For example, Metro 2033 has good graphics and, minus checkpoint-based-saves gameplay (serious flaw for me, I got idiosyncrasy for it), was rather balanced, had entertaining gameplay and interesting story to back it up (though I read book before that (but wasn't impressed that much)). Even with graphics turned to minimal, it still was enjoyable.
Crysis, on the contrary, while having good graphic and somewhat interesting modding potential, by default had nothing else to offer, since gamedesign errors (not to mention "story", even in warhead) of such magnitudes usually involved tar, feathers and pitchfork in not so distant past.  Turn all graphics down - Far Cry 1, only without trygens or whatever.
And I'm not graphics aficionado, those are two examples from top of my head Steam headliner.

Blueprotoss wrote...

I guess video games can't trump PnP while I wouldn't be surprised with what people say these days.

Hey, I have nothing against table-top games, ADnD, WH (mostly 40K, though), to name those I played most.
What I meant, that for me, presense of some "points distribution" in game is not sign "RPG was here". Unless there are damages typical to RPG... Ahem.
Those numbers just technical parameters, nothing more. In ADnD you see them. In Jagged Alliance - you don't. But they are there. I don't speak about mighty RND who awarded you with steel helmet to loot from body of blackshirt who fired at you from Minimi, I'm speaking about all those numbers you don't see. Why Ira is so fcuking lucky? With crappiest weapons (.38 revolver(s), for example), from "less than suitable position" she could hit target nobody else could hit, even with better guns, skills or whatever. Repeatedly (not necessary same target, even .38 will do the job, sooner or later).
That points distribuion, by and large, was my biggest complain toward WH40K:DoW2, really, for people who fought for centuries, gather experience for this? No.
I have nothing against reasonable "training" (a.k.a. experience gathering), preferably TES or JA style - you increase what you use; as much as I like Fallout, increasing speech via killing all that moves (and moving what's not first) always was and still is odd to me.
And yes, I think that few developers made that "learning curve" interesting, acceptable, reasonably explained or ignorable.
So for me role-playing game is game where you can play the role. Play, not follow. Should they call ME3 "Role-following game", I wouldn't object: there is a role of seriously dumbed down person with strange set of issues, placed into strange, illogical environment and you have to follow his role. All fair.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Agreed.

Fellow paladin?

[Jadebaby]

WindfishDude wrote...

Bad writing is one thing.

But bad writing, build around plot points introduced in 'Extended Universe' material such as comics or books is just flat out retarded.

I don't read the book or comics. I'm a fan of the games. You want to flesh out the ME universe through other media, that's FINE. But don't make that required reading.

I'd say this, they could have still made the comics and novels and made it work. It was just the writing in the game itself that let it down.

Halo seems to have novels and know how to make it work, so I've heard.

[Star fury]

How is this fail thread still going? Bioware definitely need better advocates.

[Rudy Lis]

If you don't like it, don't listen, but don't hamper our conversation.

[Blueprotoss]

Rudy Lis wrote...
Why leader? Sovereign said something about independent, each a nation. Who leads Geth? Greater good?
Not sure where Conduit fits here, really.

The Geth follow the Reapers as gods and the Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Strange. I have impression that Conduit is what Protheans built to get access to Citadel and used (indirectly) to ban Reaper's access to Citadel by broad range of IP.
What I'm not sure - if "transmitting" (Ilos') side of relay could be built by Protheans, where the hell receiving (Citadel's) side get from. Since Keepers gave a wide berth to it, it apparently not original design (compare with dialogue of pair, IIRC human female and salarian, near Consort chambers, about Keepers constantly rearrenging female's room.

I can't answer the Illos Relay but I can answer the Conduit because the Protheans wouldn't build something to free the Reapers from Dark Space.

Rudy Lis wrote...

Well, it's not premium grade weapon, yes, they don't retain prices that well, I admit. But few games I purchased lost much less of their price, than ME3, despite being released before it.

There isn't that much value in multiplatform games but exclusivity without or with a short run and a good enough of demand to retain their value like Panzer Dragoon.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

...you'll think of me when you are all alone?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

How did you know that?   

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Only harsh truth, nothing more. *Casavir pokerface engaged*[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Flame shield activated.  

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Great deal is 20-30 bucks, depending on playtime, required for playthrough, without delaying game to prolongue it. Or where prolongation is part of gameplay, if game is about travel, i.e. process, not destination, i.e. "ending cutscene". Only if game is naturally good (not to mention great, true masterpiece), then yes, it deserves higher tag.
For example, Metro 2033 has good graphics and, minus checkpoint-based-saves gameplay (serious flaw for me, I got idiosyncrasy for it), was rather balanced, had entertaining gameplay and interesting story to back it up (though I read book before that (but wasn't impressed that much)). Even with graphics turned to minimal, it still was enjoyable.
Crysis, on the contrary, while having good graphic and somewhat interesting modding potential, by default had nothing else to offer, since gamedesign errors (not to mention "story", even in warhead) of such magnitudes usually involved tar, feathers and pitchfork in not so distant past.  Turn all graphics down - Far Cry 1, only without trygens or whatever.
And I'm not graphics aficionado, those are two examples from top of my head Steam headliner.

To each their own. This reminds me that I still need to play Metro 2033 on the PC to get my $5 worth out of it from Steam.  I'm also not a graphics aficionado as well and its hard to be one based on how many games are being released and were released some time ago.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Hey, I have nothing against table-top games, ADnD, WH (mostly 40K, though), to name those I played most.
What I meant, that for me, presense of some "points distribution" in game is not sign "RPG was here". Unless there are damages typical to RPG... Ahem.
Those numbers just technical parameters, nothing more. In ADnD you see them. In Jagged Alliance - you don't. But they are there. I don't speak about mighty RND who awarded you with steel helmet to loot from body of blackshirt who fired at you from Minimi, I'm speaking about all those numbers you don't see. Why Ira is so fcuking lucky? With crappiest weapons (.38 revolver(s), for example), from "less than suitable position" she could hit target nobody else could hit, even with better guns, skills or whatever. Repeatedly (not necessary same target, even .38 will do the job, sooner or later).
That points distribuion, by and large, was my biggest complain toward WH40K:DoW2, really, for people who fought for centuries, gather experience for this? No.
I have nothing against reasonable "training" (a.k.a. experience gathering), preferably TES or JA style - you increase what you use; as much as I like Fallout, increasing speech via killing all that moves (and moving what's not first) always was and still is odd to me.
And yes, I think that few developers made that "learning curve" interesting, acceptable, reasonably explained or ignorable.
So for me role-playing game is game where you can play the role. Play, not follow. Should they call ME3 "Role-following game", I wouldn't object: there is a role of seriously dumbed down person with strange set of issues, placed into strange, illogical environment and you have to follow his role. All fair.

I know that you don't but there are some people out there that are elitist like that.  I'm not surprised one how a lot of PnP players love to play RPGs.

Rudy Lis wrote... 

Fellow paladin?

I haven't played WoW, but I have heard some of the horrors done in the name of balance from some of my close high school and college chums.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 02:46 .

[D24O]

Yo Bluebrotoss, do you even lift?

[Blueprotoss]

D24O wrote...

Yo Bluebrotoss, do you even lift?

I'm no Arnie.  

[GreyLycanTrope]

I lift all the time:

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 09 septembre 2012 - 02:58 .

[Rudy Lis]

[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.[/quote]

How I missed that part? It's from books?


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

I can't answer the Illos Relay but I can answer the Conduit because the Protheans wouldn't build something to free the Reapers from Dark Space.[/quote]

If conduit as I think is just two points relay "network" (apparently one way), I doubt it'll help Reapers somehow.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

There isn't that much value in multiplatform games but exclusivity without or with a short run and a good enough of demand to retain their value like Panzer Dragoon.[/quote]

Some of games I meant are muptiplatform or being made ones recently.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

How did you know that?   [/quote]

Fallout isn't game, it's my religion.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

Flame shield activated.  [/quote]

Evil, meet Sword! Sword, meet Evil!


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

To each their own. [/quote]

On that we agree. Where is handshaking smilie when you need one?
Ah, I've found one!


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

This reminds me that I still need to play Metro 2033 on the PC to get my $5 worth out of it from Steam. [/quote]

5$? "Totally worth it".
P.S. Buy as many gas mask filters as you can in beginning of the game, there are none later to buy. It's not spoiler, it'll save your nerves.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

I'm also not a graphics aficionado as well and its hard to be one based on how many games are being released and were released some time ago.[/quote]

Yeah... *looking at minimized Gothic 1*.
Some modern indie games are about as great, despite looking "old".


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

I know that you don't but there are some people out there that are elitist like that.  [/quote]

Not sure for "elitism", probably believing everything whats written on box, or in game, or in review. Hmm... Something familiar... I think I see a pattern here.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

I'm not surprised one how a lot of PnP players love to play RPGs.[/quote]

Well, it's like table-top, only without friends (real co-op anyone?), game master and lots a pen and papers. Save the tree, play on PC!

Really, should we have a chance to play singleplayer missions with two real friends instead of AI-controlled team-mates... oh, well, what's the point? 


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

 I haven't played WoW, but I have heard some of the horrors done in the name of balance from some of my close high school and college chums.
[/quote]

WoW? I don't play WoW. I'm not generally multiplayer guy. Diablo 2. Smiter. Ping-pong anyone to death with another smiter and occasionnal "ping-ponging trajectory corrections" from friendly chargers. Paladin squad of 8 mugs - one of most funniest thing I've done in my life. Long before Lords of Destruction, "when Thorn meant something!"  
From modern replacements Magicka would do pretty fine. /waving MP friends 

[Blueprotoss]

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote...

How I missed that part? It's from books?[/quote]Its mentioned very briefly by Vigil in ME1.

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

If conduit as I think is just two points relay "network" (apparently one way), I doubt it'll help Reapers somehow.[/quote]The Conduit is basically an "on" button from what ME1 told us.

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

Some of games I meant are muptiplatform or being made ones recently. [/quote]The recent ones will hold value until the prices are changed.


[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

Fallout isn't game, it's my religion.[/quote]I pictrured you more as an Elder Scrolls fan. 


[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

Evil, meet Sword! Sword, meet Evil!

[/quote]To bad for you because I'm the Black Knight!  


[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

On that we agree. Where is handshaking smilie when you need one?
Ah, I've found one!

[/quote]


[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

5$? "Totally worth it".
P.S. Buy as many gas mask filters as you can in beginning of the game, there are none later to buy. It's not spoiler, it'll save your nerves.[/quote]Thankx.  How's the bullet currency?


[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

Yeah... *looking at minimized Gothic 1*.
Some modern indie games are about as great, despite looking "old".[/quote]Now I also feel old.

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote...  

Not sure for "elitism", probably believing everything whats written on box, or in game, or in review. Hmm... Something familiar... I think I see a pattern here.

[/quote]Yep, there are people like that.

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

Well, it's like table-top, only without friends (real co-op anyone?), game master and lots a pen and papers. Save the tree, play on PC!

Really, should we have a chance to play singleplayer missions with two real friends instead of AI-controlled team-mates... oh, well, what's the point? [/quote]I wouldn't mind a seperate campaign doing that in the next ME.

[quote]Rudy Lis wrote... 

WoW? I don't play WoW. I'm not generally multiplayer guy. Diablo 2. Smiter. Ping-pong anyone to death with another smiter and occasionnal "ping-ponging trajectory corrections" from friendly chargers. Paladin squad of 8 mugs - one of most funniest thing I've done in my life. Long before Lords of Destruction, "when Thorn meant something!"  
From modern replacements Magicka would do pretty fine. /waving MP friends
 [/quote]Never was a WoW or a Diablo but I'm definately a Starcraft fan.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[Rudy Lis]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Its mentioned very briefly by Vigil in ME1.

The Conduit is basically an "on" button from what ME1 told us.

Oh, well, since English probably is native language for you, I guess I misinterpret something, if I got impression that a) Conduit is Protheans creation, just a relay to Citadel. Sort of teleportations pyramids from Divine Divinity, but only one way.

Blueprotoss wrote...

The recent ones will hold value until the prices are changed.

Of course they will, but comparing their release date ME3's, it quite interesting how big ME3 drop is, in comparison, both natural value and percentage. It's like slow decent and... ehm... dive.

Blueprotoss wrote...

I pictrured you more as an Elder Scrolls fan. 

How did you came up with that?
Their skill-progression system I like: "use it - rise it". Ehm... I guess that's all I like. I mean Miuri, from Skyrim, hire you to kill man who used her to get closer to her friend just as cover for robbery and then... made a proposal?! I guess I'll call her Catalyst. Double pun, giving her profession.

Blueprotoss wrote...

To bad for you because I'm the Black Knight!  

 

My sword is well-mannered one, so all I did is introduced you do each other. Besides, I worked with one Black Knight, in Beyond Divinity. Very interesting guy. Vitriolic and viperish. I liked him. Too bad he never wanted to change his armour. Have to tank everyone by myself.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Thankx.  How's the bullet currency?

Fine, nothing new, really - Fallout experience.
Just don't accidentally change type of rounds in your gun, or you begin to fire your money. It's rare occasion and I think they actually increased the delay for which you need to hold button, since I remember it was much easier right after release (or my keyboard works differently than my friend's) then when I played (I guess we bought it on same sale). They really more powerful, but could be used to purchase some equipment (filters and med-kits). Polis has last shop, so if you bought everything you wanted - you can use them on big game afterwards, so if you deep and thinks "it's the time", well, maybe it is.
And the only worthy thing you can buy there (from my point of view), is heavy armour, if you into those things.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Now I also feel old.

Don't tell me about it...
But our spirits are young! And memory serves. Well, most of the time. Unless you got amnesia... Where am I, by the way?

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yep, there are people like that.

As long as they present in homeopathic doses, it's fine.
Yes, I know, I'm a terrible person.

Blueprotoss wrote...

I wouldn't mind a seperate campaign doing that in the next ME.

It could be very same campaign. Splinter Cell just another type of game, definitely single, co-op and multiplayer, but here there is no reason for: team-mates still don't offer that much of a "insight", other than random dialogues, so I see about zero difference and difficulties. Of course, unless somebody wants to have a chicken...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Never was a WoW or a Diablo but I'm definately a Starcraft fan.

I like it, but never got idea of high CPM and right build-order, like if you did 3rd SCV on 17th second, not on 16th, you total loser, WTF, seriously? And I know I'm slow in these things, I admit, catching pucks was easier.
Prefer RTB or slower-paced strategies. Which are mostly tactics, actually, despite name.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.

Rudy Lis wrote...
How I missed that part? It's from books?

You are mistaken. In ME1 "the Conduit" is the pair of relays:
Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was disguised as a monument on the Citadel. If you take Kaidan near it, he complains about a headache. Vigil explains the Protheans where experimenting with making relays. That pair was a top-secret prototype, one way only.

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.

Rudy Lis wrote...
How I missed that part? It's from books?

You are mistaken. In ME1 "the Conduit" is the pair of relays:
Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was disguised as a monument on the Citadel. If you take Kaidan near it, he complains about a headache. Vigil explains the Protheans where experimenting with making relays. That pair was a top-secret prototype, one way only.

The Conduit is what Sovreign was trying to get into on the Citadel not a one way portal that the Protheans created.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.

Rudy Lis wrote...
How I missed that part? It's from books?

You are mistaken. In ME1 "the Conduit" is the pair of relays:
Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was disguised as a monument on the Citadel. If you take Kaidan near it, he complains about a headache. Vigil explains the Protheans where experimenting with making relays. That pair was a top-secret prototype, one way only.

The Conduit is what Sovreign was trying to get into on the Citadel not a one way portal that the Protheans created.

Here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Conduit

Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was the monument on the Citadel.
The Mako jumps from one to the other and the Geth blow the one on Ilos (the meaning of the countdown before the jump.) 

The story in ME1 was "Shepard tries to stop Saren before Saren finds and uses the Conduit." 
 Shepard failed that part. Saren is trying to find and use then, destroy the Conduit before activating the Citadel relay."
After meeting Vigil, the point was "Shepard tries to stop Saren from undoing the Protheans' sabotage."
This is why the end of ME3 makes no sense.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 11 septembre 2012 - 12:01 .

[djspectre]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

If they were such amazingly important plot points, It should have been stated in the game. That is the difference between good writing and bad.

^ this. 

Don't make me have to go out and read second hand novels and comics just to make sense of a trilogy that was previously nicely self-contained and competent in the first two games. 

Anyone remember the Animatrix? Yeah, that stupid comic prequel that explained why the machines fought the humans in the Matrix in the first place and thus made the ending to Revolutions actually have meaning? It was a bad idea then and it was a bad idea now. 

[djspectre]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Conduit is the control center of the Citadel.

Rudy Lis wrote...
How I missed that part? It's from books?

You are mistaken. In ME1 "the Conduit" is the pair of relays:
Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was disguised as a monument on the Citadel. If you take Kaidan near it, he complains about a headache. Vigil explains the Protheans where experimenting with making relays. That pair was a top-secret prototype, one way only.

The Conduit is what Sovreign was trying to get into on the Citadel not a one way portal that the Protheans created.

Here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Conduit

Transmitter on Ilos.
Receiver was the monument on the Citadel.
The Mako jumps from one to the other and the Geth blow the one on Ilos (the meaning of the countdown before the jump.) 

The story in ME1 was "Shepard tries to stop Saren before Saren finds and uses the Conduit." 
 Shepard failed that part. Saren is trying to find and use then, destroy the Conduit before activating the Citadel relay."
After meeting Vigil, the point was "Shepard tries to stop Saren from undoing the Protheans' sabotage."
This is why the end of ME3 makes no sense.

You have this wrong. The story goes from "Bring in the rogue Spectre for mass murder" to "Stop the Reaper invasion".

The conduit was used as a way for the Protheans to get aboard the Citadel after the Reapers left with the goal of blocking the Reaper signal to the Keepers, which they did. It was a one-directional, independent and isolated mass relay system. The reciever was installed incognito on the Presidium of the Citadel, while the 'transmitter' was built in secret on Ilos. 

The one on Ilos was rapidly draining the last of the remaining power in the facility where Vigil resided. Shepard is able to drive the Mako through a few seconds before it shut down and sapped the last power from the facility. 

[m2iCodeJockey]

djspectre wrote...
You have this wrong. The story goes from "Bring in the rogue Spectre for mass murder" to "Stop the Reaper invasion".

The conduit was used as a way for the Protheans to get aboard the Citadel after the Reapers left with the goal of blocking the Reaper signal to the Keepers, which they did. It was a one-directional, independent and isolated mass relay system. The reciever was installed incognito on the Presidium of the Citadel, while the 'transmitter' was built in secret on Ilos.

The one on Ilos was rapidly draining the last of the remaining power in the facility where Vigil resided. Shepard is able to drive the Mako through a few seconds before it shut down and sapped the last power from the facility.

Anderson: "Whatever Saren is up to, the Conduit is the key!"

Before receiving the order to go to Virmire, Shepard is trying to figure out what the Conduit is and where in order to intercept Saren. Beside learning that Saren is looking for the Conduit, the visions are just noise until after the Virmire beacon and more of Liara's mind humping ("Shepard's mind is SO strong! I'm spent!! Oh, I must recuperate!")
Running into Saren on Virmire was a surprise. Afterward, Shepard would be back on the Conduit trail if not ordered to the Citadel.

Yes, Shepard is trying to stop a Reaper invasion, especially after talking to Sovereign but, to do so, Shepard is trying to get to the Conduit to intercept Saren. Saren gets there first and uses it, leaving a regiment of Geth behind.

Herein lay a story problem:
Saren and Sovereign both knew where the Citadel was.
Saren was a trusted and respected SPECTRE.
There is no reason for Saren to seek out and use the Conduit if the only reason for doing so is to launch a sneak attack.
Quietly roll into the front door, jump out of Sovereign dressed like a pimp with gold teeth wearing a big a**ed hat with a feather, a member of Benezia's group on each arm.
Walk right into the Council Chamber and...

Tevos: "SPECTRE Arterius! Such a... Large vessel!..." *blushing* "What CAN we do for you?"
Saren: "I've got somethin' fo' ya'!!"
*Saren pimp-limps over to the control console, pushes buttons*
Sovereign (avatar:) "I AM THE VANGUARD OF YOUR DESTRUCTION..."
Tevos: "What is the meaning of this?!"
*Saren and troupe blast the Council*
*Geth blast the base of the relay monument, tow it into space*
*Citadel closes*
*Checkmate*

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 11 septembre 2012 - 12:28 .