175 réponses à ce sujet

[Lividliver]

CarpeJugulum wrote...

Lividliver wrote...

I don't remember such a thing,at least not in recent times.Any buffs to enemies were solely for gold and platinum.Bronze and silver were left untouched.

More to unlock,more to level up.Are they even legitimate gripes about the game?I'm sorry to say but if a newcomer were to complain about having so many to unlock and level up,it would make it seem as if they are the "instant gratification" sort.Is that the kind of attitude we want to foster?Another player mentioned earlier that this game is about having fun and that if people only concentrate on unlocks,something is wrong.Wouldn't what  you said contradict it since apparently newcomers cannot have fun without rapidly unlocking/levelling their manifest.

All these things are rewards that come with the time and effort put in.I dare say it is part of Bioware's intention and design for it to be so.They are free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I direct you to social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9544143. Cerberus and geth have both been buffed, largely by increasing health and shields, across all difficulties. 

On instant gratification, in this case there is an element of that. However, is that a bad thing? What we're proposing giving new players is something that they're otherwise unlikely to see for quite a long time. Is giving them a taste of that so they have some motivation to get there so wrong. We're not proposing handing out free complete manifests, only something that could be achieved in at most a few days work by any gold regular. There is still the vast majority of the work to do, but this gives them a taste of what the rewards will be like.

Okay,they have been buffed but they are still low for bronze/silver compared to what common level weapons can dish out.Back near when the game was released(March),they buffed enemies in bronze and silver as well yet people were still plowing through them with their commons and uncommons.Unless you are telling me they nerfed the lower tier weapons,I don't see why newcomers cannot accomplish what we have done many times when we were at the same starting point.

Instant gratification is instant gratification,there is no hiding it.Like I mentioned earlier,I'm okay with up to gold cards only as a form of goodwill gesture.But I do not see it as something vital we must do to attarct or retain new playes.

[CarpeJugulum]

Lividliver wrote...

Why the pressing need to give them even more at the start then,especially URs?Experience will be their most lethal weapon even if they lack a good physical one to hold.As they accumulate experience,so will they accumulate credits and that's when equipment will start rolling in by then.If they are not primarily motivated by the thought of getting better,I don't see how giving them more shinies at the start is going to motivate them any better since they will die alot anyways and complain about it,maybe even qutting in the process.

Do you remember when you got your first UR? I remember mine. It was the javelin. I had great fun with that gun. I'm pretty sure it taught me how to snipe properly, and I know I devoted an entire leveling from 1 to 20 to it. Most of the common guns are pretty uninspiring, standard issue stuff. My javelin gave me something far more interesting to use, and I'll always remember it for that. If it does the same for other new players, so much the better. 

As for the ammo in free packs, you don't get ammo in your starter pack now either, or not in place of weapons or characters anyway.

[Disconnected Again]

i belive what new and old players alike deserve is a better ending!
oh and weapon only packs

[Disconnected Again]

and less disconnections

[CarpeJugulum]

Lividliver wrote...


Okay,they have been buffed but they are still low for bronze/silver compared to what common level weapons can dish out.Back near when the game was released(March),they buffed enemies in bronze and silver as well yet people were still plowing through them with their commons and uncommons.Unless you are telling me they nerfed the lower tier weapons,I don't see why newcomers cannot accomplish what we have done many times when we were at the same starting point.

Instant gratification is instant gratification,there is no hiding it.Like I mentioned earlier,I'm okay with up to gold cards only as a form of goodwill gesture.But I do not see it as something vital we must do to attarct or retain new playes.

You're right, it's not vital. But thats not to say it wont help, and we can't do it anyway. And certainly, they could accomplish what we've done.However, bronze is still plenty challenging at that point even with rare stuff. Why not give them something more interesting to try and do it with?

[Lividliver]

CarpeJugulum wrote...


Do you remember when you got your first UR? I remember mine. It was the javelin. I had great fun with that gun. I'm pretty sure it taught me how to snipe properly, and I know I devoted an entire leveling from 1 to 20 to it. Most of the common guns are pretty uninspiring, standard issue stuff. My javelin gave me something far more interesting to use, and I'll always remember it for that. If it does the same for other new players, so much the better. 

Of course I remember,it was my sweetest moment considering that my first UR drop was the one I had been working towards for a long time.The grind was long but I felt it was all worthwhile in the end considering I gained a whole bunch of rare cards along the way.

Common guns are called that for a reason....they are standard issue.Their overall utility should be lower than the rare tier,as such "uninspiring" should not be unexpected.Newcomers are recruit grunts,is it odd or unfair to them to be wielding only common weapons at the start?Hell,it is precisely because of how underwhelming they are that I learned to concentrate on headshots and making them count.

CarpeJugulum wrote...

As for the ammo in free packs, you don't get ammo in your starter pack now either, or not in place of weapons or characters anyway.

I'm not too sure about this since I do not have a new account.

Modifié par Lividliver, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[Disconnected Again]

CarpeJugulum wrote...

Lividliver wrote...


Okay,they have been buffed but they are still low for bronze/silver compared to what common level weapons can dish out.Back near when the game was released(March),they buffed enemies in bronze and silver as well yet people were still plowing through them with their commons and uncommons.Unless you are telling me they nerfed the lower tier weapons,I don't see why newcomers cannot accomplish what we have done many times when we were at the same starting point.

Instant gratification is instant gratification,there is no hiding it.Like I mentioned earlier,I'm okay with up to gold cards only as a form of goodwill gesture.But I do not see it as something vital we must do to attarct or retain new playes.

You're right, it's not vital. But thats not to say it wont help, and we can't do it anyway. And certainly, they could accomplish what we've done.However, bronze is still plenty challenging at that point even with rare stuff. Why not give them something more interesting to try and do it with?

am i doin this right?
they should have an easier time than us cause of things like permanet gear, jst give em one of those and they'l be set till they're at gold level and by then they'll have better ****

[Disconnected Again]

yep i did it rite

[Disconnected Again]

=) pizzas ready, this has been a good nite, except 4 ec, that didnt change **** =(

[DeathOsiris]

To be completely honest, I dont think it should give them an UR ( imagine playing since release hoping to get a certain UR, only to get into a lobby that has a N7 lv1 with that gun.). I will say that a couple rare weapons and some characters would be good though. I think they should give 20 or so random common weapons and one of each of the uncommon ones. Also 2-3 rare weapons and 5-6 character cards (No xp on the cards). Maybe 20+ of each ingame consumable as well.

Now that might seem like a lot to give to a new player, but it should give them a decent beginners manifest. Also it would give them a little bit of choice if they prefer a certain weapon type.

[Krantzstone]

Lividliver wrote...

CarpeJugulum wrote...


One weapon or character, no matter how good, is not going to stop you learning those things. Sure, they might be able to clear bronze a little bit easier, but at the end of the day if you don't learn those things you're not going to be playing gold. And if you give them one character or weapon, it's not going to take out the effort of getting all the others. They'll probably have more motivation to do so, because they'll know there's more decent stuff out there they can get if they just keep playing.

Why the pressing need to give them even more at the start then,especially URs?Experience will be their most lethal weapon even if they lack a good physical one to hold.As they accumulate experience,so will they accumulate credits and that's when equipment will start rolling in by then.If they are not primarily motivated by the thought of getting better,I don't see how giving them more shinies at the start is going to motivate them any better since they will die alot anyways and complain about it,maybe even qutting in the process.

I was never particularly good at ME3 multiplayer on PC, but what little experience and knowledge I have picked up since I started playing at launch, hasn't helped me much since I restarted on the Xbox 360.  If anything, the most helpful thing aside from simply unlocking a class that can farm FBW/G/G, was simply information I learned on here, on the forums, more than actual gameplay experience.  It's sad to say that I only started reading the BSN forums a couple of months ago, so you could say I was fumbling my way around all that time. ;P

But yeah, I found it tough to go back to being a lowbie with no good weapons, no consumables, no carrying capacity for Cobras, Ops, medigel and thermal packs, and no decent character unlocks.  If I hadn't learned some tricks and figured out map layout and enemy spawns, it would have been even harder, and probably much less fun.  It reminded me of how when I first started as a newbie, I spent a really long time on Bronze just being carried (and constantly being revived) before I managed to kind of get a hang of things.  Even then, it took me a long time before I moved up to Silver (and I recall thinking how hard it was, and by comparison, FBW/G/G was easier - I didn't know it was a farming thing at the time and relatively easy for a Gold level), and then eventually Gold.

Anyway, if I hadn't been carried by better, more experienced players for so long (I guess there were a lot of people who had been practising on the ME3 multiplayer demo or something prior to launch) I wouldn't have had a chance to rack up enough credits to purchase packs to get the kind of gear that ultimately made it easier for me to survive a match and get more credits, until I was more or less self-sufficient.

Unfortunately, as time goes on, the experienced players are inevitably going to leave as they move on to other games (or indeed, get fed up with bugs, glitches, cheaters, RNG trolling, etc. ;P), and as newer players start playing due to lower prices for the game, there isn't going to be that large pool of experienced players to help teach these newer players the ropes, or carry them long enough for them to unlock their first Premium Spectre Pack.  And if the learning curve is too steep, some players may simply give up and not bother with multiplayer at all, and that would be a loss to all concerned.

This game is weird because it's the first game I know where it's incentivized to make things _easier_ for the player as the player gets better at playing the game: an experienced player who has gotten better shouldn't really _need_ 5/5 medigel, but a newbie who doesn't know the maps, doesn't know the game very well, doesn't know all the tricks, isn't aware of all the bugs, what the good builds are, what tactics to use, what weapon combinations, what biotic combos are, etc. _definitely_ need 5/5 medigel (as well as Ops, thermal packs, and Cobras).  So why is it that we have to unlock these things which can only increase survivability and make things easier... when a player who's progressed far enough to unlock these things, wouldn't need them anyway?

Doesn't really make sense to me: if anything, they should have started newbies off with 6 or 7 medigel carrying capacity, and then at every higher difficulty they advance to, they lose one carrying capacity.  That would have increased game difficulty without having to artificially uber-buff the enemy to the point of unfairness.

[CarpeJugulum]

Lividliver wrote...

Of course I remember,it was my sweetest moment considering that my first UR drop was the one I had been working towards for a long time.The grind was long but I felt it was all worthwhile in the end considering I gained a whole bunch of rare cards along the way.

Common guns are called that for a reason....they are standard issue.Their overall utility should be lower than the rare tier,as such "unspiring" should not be unexpected.Newcomers are recruit grunts,is it odd or unfair to them to be wielding only common weapons at the start?Hell,it is precisely because of how underwhelming they are that I learned to concentrate on headshots and making them count.

Fair enough I suppose, although equally we're not talking about your standard soldiers here. Skills like headshots don't automatically become less important with more powerful weapons. A lot of the ultra-rares take more skill to use effectively than the common weepons. For example, the javelin is significantly harder to aim with at first than the mantis. Weapons like the sabre also have a fairly heavy reliance on headshots to be anything other than mediocre. Moving down to rares, weapons like the claymore and reegar actively punish sloppy play, particularly on higher difficulties. It's possible to learn skills equally well on rarer weapons.

[Lividliver]

CarpeJugulum wrote...



Fair enough I suppose, although equally we're not talking about your standard soldiers here. Skills like headshots don't automatically become less important with more powerful weapons. A lot of the ultra-rares take more skill to use effectively than the common weepons. For example, the javelin is significantly harder to aim with at first than the mantis. Weapons like the sabre also have a fairly heavy reliance on headshots to be anything other than mediocre. Moving down to rares, weapons like the claymore and reegar actively punish sloppy play, particularly on higher difficulties. It's possible to learn skills equally well on rarer weapons.

The ones you quoted are sniper rifles,all of them regardless of tier should require a fair bit of "skill" considering that you have to line up your shot precisely(as opposed to spray and pray) and in the case of the javelin,time your shots(accounting for the charge delay) to ensure it even hits at all.That is why there was such a ruckus created over the krysae.Imagine if you gave all the newcomers the pre-nerf krysae,I would dare say that will become their permanent weapon throughout and hurt Bioware's delicate balancing game.

A level 1 with nothing but a harrier 1 or typhoon 1 is able to just stand there and mow down mooks  as they spawn even without headshots.That's how powerful they are.Giving them such a weapon at the start might discourage them from trying out other weapons in the mean time.

Modifié par Lividliver, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:26 .

[Disconnected Again]

i think u guys are missing the point, bronze is EASY!!! that is enough
bronze is for beginners and lazy pros
silver is a bit, not harder more like less easy and most people play it fairly often for a easy match and decent credits
gold is were all the good people go, unfortunatly so do the  beginners up themselves beginners hu think they are real good cause the found gold was easy, which is y the **** and moan, but then again EVERYONE online ****es and moans
 

Modifié par Disconnected Again, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[CarpeJugulum]

Lividliver wrote...

The ones you quoted are sniper rifles,all of them regardless of tier should require a fair bit of "skill" considering that you have to line up your shot precisely(as opposed to spray and pray) and in the case of the javelin,time your shots(accounting for the charge delay) to ensure it even hits at all.That is why there was such a ruckus created over the krysae.Imagine if you gave all the newcomers the pre-nerf krysae,I would dare say that will become their permanent weapon throughout and hurt Bioware's delicate balancing game.

A level 1 with nothing but a harrier 1 or typhoon 1 is able to just stand there and mow down mooks as they spawn.That's how powerful they are.Giving them such a weapon at the start might discourage them from trying out other weapons in the mean time.

The harrier and typhoon are both assault rifles, a class which you wouldn't really expect to involve a huge amount of skill in dealing out the damage. I'd say the skills learnt come on the other end, with when to move in and out of cover, and where to be on the battlefield. I know I died heaps early on, and it wasn't so much lack of damage output that killed me as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes those weapons can wipe out a spawn, but only if you don't die in the meantime

[Constant Motion]

Killahead wrote...

Lividliver wrote...

If they(newcomers) want to catch up with the rest,they should have bought the game early.

Yeah, all they need to do is invent a time machine!

Joking aside, the compelling reason you seek is maintaining an as large player base as possible. We want that because we want Bioware to continue supporting the game. That means that we shouldn't scare off new players, and it might help giving them some shiny items. If they get such items, they will at least not quit until they've tried them out, and that might just get them hooked. Getting a recruit pack and a Katana 1.. not that intriguing.

I'm very much opposed to this notion: "we worked hard for this, no way those guys should get anything free". That's just egoism. We're talking about a few gold cards! Again, try to imagine entering MP for the first time at this point.

This! The chips on people's shoulders! "Well I got the game in nineteen-dickety-two, where's my free Claymore I?" It's in nineteen-dickety-two, exactly where you left it! You've ridden the crest of the wave as it's got bigger. Still not easy, but imagine being at the base of it now, when it's massive!

The goalposts have widened at pretty much exactly the rate early adopters have improved and our manifests have filled. New players should be charmed in, not punished. But if it makes that much difference to the more petty-minded, then fine. You can have five Golds, too. "Jumbo starter pack." It'll still make a lot more difference to Harry and Helen Newberson than it will to Captain Bogbrush complaining about his level V ammo.



Incidentally! My Starter Pack way back in March (or was it April?) contained a Turian Soldier. I was very surprised to find out, when my brother started playing, that they didn't all contain aliens - so I'd spent months assuming this was how the game already worked!! It's a great idea. Yes, give them some Gold.

Modifié par Constant Motion, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:35 .

[Disconnected Again]

Disconnected Again wrote...

i think u guys are missing the point, bronze is EASY!!! that is enough
bronze is for beginners and lazy pros
silver is a bit, not harder more like less easy and most people play it fairly often for a easy match and decent credits
gold is were all the good people go, unfortunatly so do the  beginners up themselves beginners hu think they are real good cause the found gold was easy, which is y the **** and moan, but then again EVERYONE online ****es and moans
 

[zombine210]

i don't believe this is necessary. i started playing MP during operation overwatch; didn't even know about the dlc, and i did just fine. i don't have all the weapons or characters, but that is what keeps the game fun, unlocking stuff through hard earned credits.

btw, i must admit, i did get the BF3 pack, but that only had a rocket, a medigel and can't remember what else, but wasn't much.

also, i vaguely remember getting a starter pack, but can't remember what was in it.

[N7 Panda]

No. I went through that bull, they can as well. Earn their stripes.

[Phase Disruptor]

Don't talk silly.

[xtorma]

CarpeJugulum wrote...

Lividliver wrote...


Okay,they have been buffed but they are still low for bronze/silver compared to what common level weapons can dish out.Back near when the game was released(March),they buffed enemies in bronze and silver as well yet people were still plowing through them with their commons and uncommons.Unless you are telling me they nerfed the lower tier weapons,I don't see why newcomers cannot accomplish what we have done many times when we were at the same starting point.

Instant gratification is instant gratification,there is no hiding it.Like I mentioned earlier,I'm okay with up to gold cards only as a form of goodwill gesture.But I do not see it as something vital we must do to attarct or retain new playes.

You're right, it's not vital. But thats not to say it wont help, and we can't do it anyway. And certainly, they could accomplish what we've done.However, bronze is still plenty challenging at that point even with rare stuff. Why not give them something more interesting to try and do it with?

For any free giveaway to help with the playerbase numbers, they would have to promote it. People are going to buy the game for the single player regardless. The need to play multi-player has been removed from the game. The people who end up in multi-player are the ones who will play multi-player regardless.

Giving players free gear is not going to entice them any more to play multi-player than anything else. The only way I can see of it making any kind of difference at all on the player base is if they saturated websites with adds about the giveaway. They won't spend the money to do that. Whether you give people free stuff or not, will not make any difference in whether they like or dislike multi-player.

[zombine210]

what they need is a tutorial. i didn't even know about consumables until a few matches in. and didn't know gear was permanent, so i didn't use it 'till much later.

also, i was wondering why things kept happening all around me while i had the shift key pressed to change weapons.

and, i don't know... maybe text chat so one can ask about these things??!!

[Killahead]

Bump in the name of altruism and all that is good in this godforsaken world.

[UKStory135]

I like the OP's idea. I bet most of the people who quit playing ME3 MP early, did so out of frustration for not getting a certain weapon or character. I almost quit because it took me a month to get either the Carnifex or Asari Adept.

[FreaperFTW]

Aye, +1 from me.

I was thinking something similar for the new players; unlocking new possible unlockable cards (if that makes any sense) based on your N7 rating. Your idea however, sounds much better.