18 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

What about Anders dying in Awakening or being taken back to the Circle? All of his fates in Awakening were scrapped and changed because of him appearing in DA2 just like Leliana's death in Origins (if you killed her) was scrapped when she was introduced in DA2.

So in DA2 and future DA games, Awakening saying that Anders remained with the Grey Wardens for the rest of his life is wrong because Bioware changed that.

IMO they should have kept Anders and Leliana out of DA2 because they had to go against what was previously accepted as their fates just to introduce them into DA2.

Well at least Anders explains his "death" in Awakening:

 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[jackkel dragon]

I forgot which writer said it, but one of the BioWare writers said that they aren't going to hold themselves to epilogue slides when deciding which characters appear in future games, and in which roles. The in-story reason is that these slides are "rumors" of what happened after, not the absolute fact. The out-of-story reason is that the writers want to have access to old characters even if they did something contradictory to them in an epilogue slide. (To avoid this, DA2 didn't get an epilogue slideshow to avoid more contradictions.)

Since I endorse the cutting of an epilogue slideshow to leave characters' fates open, the real problem is when characters die during the story and are brought back later (Leliana is the only case I remember of this so far). There could be decent explanations (like the ones in the Anders video linked above), but until those reasons are revealed it seems a bit contrived to bring back characters who died on-screen. I guess we'll see how it turns out in those cases.

[apascone]

Captain Barbosa wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...



I forgot which writer said it, but one of the BioWare writers said that they
aren't going to hold themselves to epilogue slides when deciding which
characters appear in future games, and in which roles. The in-story reason is
that these slides are "rumors" of what happened after, not the
absolute fact. The out-of-story reason is that the writers want to have access
to old characters even if they did something contradictory to them in an
epilogue slide. (To avoid this, DA2 didn't get an epilogue slideshow to avoid
more contradictions.)



Since I endorse the cutting of an epilogue slideshow to leave characters' fates
open, the real problem is when characters die during the story and are brought
back later (Leliana is the only case I remember of this so far). There could be
decent explanations (like the ones in the Anders video linked above), but until
those reasons are revealed it seems a bit contrived to bring back characters
who died on-screen. I guess we'll see how it turns out in those cases.

The fact that those epilogue slideshows are rumors, can be a good reason but
not that good. Cause as well saw regarding  other companions, what
slideshow mentioned turned out to be all true. so it a little....convenient to
think that all but only one or two are the truth and facts.

Some rumors are true and some rumors are false. So it does fit. Alistar being king would be a well known fact around all of Thesdes. Anders being a Warden would only be known to the Wardens, who I doubt would confirm  or deny that. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Since I endorse the cutting of an epilogue slideshow to leave characters' fates open, the real problem is when characters die during the story and are brought back later (Leliana is the only case I remember of this so far). There could be decent explanations (like the ones in the Anders video linked above), but until those reasons are revealed it seems a bit contrived to bring back characters who died on-screen. I guess we'll see how it turns out in those cases.

If you mean Leiliana dying in Lothering, (which you don't seem to, but I think I might as well cover this anyway, to head off any of that from anyone else) why would she? Just because she misses the Warden doesn't mean she can't leave on her own.

If you mean Leiliana dying to the Warden at Haven, that's a bit trickier. But she can take some hits that ought to be lethal in Origins, lose all her hit points, and not die. The only thing different in this case is she's fighting against the Warden rather than alongside him/her.

Btw, it is also entirely possible to kill Oghren after ticking him off to the point that he makes an attempt on your life. But he's still back in Awakenings, probably because he's the only warrior for much of it and they don't want your situation to be completely untenable. I posit the same explanation here, with the added fact that he drinks so much and of such strength that he ought to die of that, so he's clearly made of iron.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[jackkel dragon]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...

Since I endorse the cutting of an epilogue slideshow to leave characters' fates open, the real problem is when characters die during the story and are brought back later (Leliana is the only case I remember of this so far). There could be decent explanations (like the ones in the Anders video linked above), but until those reasons are revealed it seems a bit contrived to bring back characters who died on-screen. I guess we'll see how it turns out in those cases.

If you mean Leiliana dying in Lothering, (which you don't seem to, but I think I might as well cover this anyway, to head off any of that from anyone else) why would she? Just because she misses the Warden doesn't mean she can't leave on her own.

If you mean Leiliana dying to the Warden at Haven, that's a bit trickier. But she can take some hits that ought to be lethal in Origins, lose all her hit points, and not die. The only thing different in this case is she's fighting against the Warden rather than alongside him/her.

Btw, it is also entirely possible to kill Oghren after ticking him off to the point that he makes an attempt on your life. But he's still back in Awakenings, probably because he's the only warrior for much of it and they don't want your situation to be completely untenable. I posit the same explanation here, with the added fact that he drinks so much and of such strength that he ought to die of that, so he's clearly made of iron.

I was referring to the possibility of beheading Leliana during the Sacred Ashes quest, since that's the hardest version of her death to explain around for her appearance in DA2. I doubt she's dumb enough to hang out in Lothering when the darkspawn arrive, should she not be recruited.

I completely forgot about Oghren's potential death, probably since you have to ****** him off quite a bit to even get a chance to kill him. His body of steel is a great story excuse for his inclusion in Awakening.

I think the biggest problem with bringing back characters who can die on-screen in Origins, aside from possible decapitations, is that it's presented as what really happened. I'd be one of the first to say that the framed narrative of DA2 wasn't used well enough, but it does give some authorial leeway when it comes to character death. (Of course, I think Gaider confirmed that certain characters will stay dead if you killed them in DA2. I forgot which, though.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I believe Gaider stated that a dead Anders in DA2 is a dead Anders.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:15 .

[jcoultas]

If you kill Leliana at the urn, then sure, in the fight you might decapitate her or Wynne, but the urn is right there. Perhaps when you took the ashes, a bit of the ashes fell to the ground and the mortally wounded pair reached them and used their miraculous healing powers to survive. So those deaths can be explained away.

[emeraldtrader]

with such discrepancy in story line I just chalk it up to a parallel universe. Or a vortex... or black hole...or Andraste's ashes... or lazy writing...

[Monica21]

The biggest problem with Anders isn't his Awakening epilogue, it's how he can be in Amaranthine and Kirkwall at the same time.

[Shadow Fox]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...

Since I endorse the cutting of an epilogue slideshow to leave characters' fates open, the real problem is when characters die during the story and are brought back later (Leliana is the only case I remember of this so far). There could be decent explanations (like the ones in the Anders video linked above), but until those reasons are revealed it seems a bit contrived to bring back characters who died on-screen. I guess we'll see how it turns out in those cases.

If you mean Leiliana dying in Lothering, (which you don't seem to, but I think I might as well cover this anyway, to head off any of that from anyone else) why would she? Just because she misses the Warden doesn't mean she can't leave on her own.

If you mean Leiliana dying to the Warden at Haven, that's a bit trickier. But she can take some hits that ought to be lethal in Origins, lose all her hit points, and not die. The only thing different in this case is she's fighting against the Warden rather than alongside him/her.

Btw, it is also entirely possible to kill Oghren after ticking him off to the point that he makes an attempt on your life. But he's still back in Awakenings, probably because he's the only warrior for much of it and they don't want your situation to be completely untenable. I posit the same explanation here, with the added fact that he drinks so much and of such strength that he ought to die of that, so he's clearly made of iron.

I was referring to the possibility of beheading Leliana during the Sacred Ashes quest, since that's the hardest version of her death to explain around for her appearance in DA2. I doubt she's dumb enough to hang out in Lothering when the darkspawn arrive, should she not be recruited.

I completely forgot about Oghren's potential death, probably since you have to ****** him off quite a bit to even get a chance to kill him. His body of steel is a great story excuse for his inclusion in Awakening.

I think the biggest problem with bringing back characters who can die on-screen in Origins, aside from possible decapitations, is that it's presented as what really happened. I'd be one of the first to say that the framed narrative of DA2 wasn't used well enough, but it does give some authorial leeway when it comes to character death. (Of course, I think Gaider confirmed that certain characters will stay dead if you killed them in DA2. I forgot which, though.)

That's just a random kill animation.

[Eshiaya]

 I started a second play through of Awakening and on the character codex it says the Arl's wife killed herself to save their son Connor..even though in my DAO play through she lived and Connor was saved...where is the consistency there??!!

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I just looked up the DA3 forum, and apparently there's a metaphysical explanation for why Leiliana came back to life that they haven't given us yet. As for the Isolde thing, that's just a bug.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Funkjoker]

jaywaddy wrote...

 I started a second play through of Awakening and on the character codex it says the Arl's wife killed herself to save their son Connor..even though in my DAO play through she lived and Connor was saved...where is the consistency there??!!

That's just a bug in the _written_ codex. It doesn't count for imports. The flags are correctly set, so that's why you see the (right) result.
-----
Leliana's death, as said above, can be explained by the ashes.

Oghren's a tough one. There is actually no solid reason why he should live when he's beheaded. Awakening was a rushed product. They really should have avoided this by simply not having him appear, as they did with Wynne, who apparently does not appear in Awakening when she's killed.

This reminds me of the second fatal mistake by having a dead warden magically reappear in Awakening once you import one into it. Makes. No. Sense. Whatsover. The game should have imported all your flags and let you play as OW. But no...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
That's just a random kill animation.

Maybe, but it emphasizes the fact that kill animation in origins = death, no?

Monica21 wrote...

The biggest problem with Anders isn't his Awakening epilogue, it's how he can be in Amaranthine and Kirkwall at the same time.

Hmm, not really. Awakening and Act I Anders (Kirkwall) happen in 9:31. Assuming that Awakening happens only for a few months (it surely doesn't last a year as the fifth blight), we can safely assume that Anders' fleeing happens after Awakening but still in the same year, which is not only possible but the only solution.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 21 octobre 2012 - 11:46 .

[ejoslin]

Captain Barbosa wrote...

what about what happens in Orzommar? or Dalish and other places? they are rumors too?
and in DAO yes, we can say it is rumors cause the only characters mentioned in slideshow, are aistair, Morrigan, Anora and the Warden. Other ones, unless they are warden`s LI, are not mentioned in the epilogue slideshow. That said, it means that the things it is said about them, it is highly unlikely that they are simply rumors. But for awakening, it is acceptable.

Actually, if your warden makes a certain decision, you hear about everyone in the epilogue slide show.  Sten's slide was especially amazing.  Zevran's slides are actually consistant with DA2 (which probably means a retcon at some point).  My favorite slide is US warden not-friended Wynne.

Edit: Edited out spoilers.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:19 .