348 réponses à ce sujet

[D24O]

Paragons don't do drugs.

[Iakus]

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

[sammysoso]

None of the endings really fit perfectly into the paragon/renegade system.

You're going to have to compromise something, it's kind of brilliant

[Lord Goose]

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Why Catalyst 2.0. is bad solution? Unless you assume that Paragon is going to opress freedom, kill or enslave anyone who disagrees with him or her, and wil rule the galaxy with the iron hand.

[Hrothdane]

Any option can theoretically be renegade or paragon depending on what you consider Shepard's motivation.

[Rommel49]

Pitznik wrote...

Rommel49 wrote...

Control? Every attempt made throughout the series to enforce control over living things ended badly, every single one. Likewise, if you see synthetics as being alive (and I do), then the Reapers themselves qualify - they're intelligent, sapient beings themselves. Indeed Engineer Adams says as much himself "just because I think they're alive doesn't mean I want them to stay that way". Even if everything went off without a hitch (and I doubt it would, do you really think the Reapers told TIM he couldn't get the job done?), then you've still become the greatest slavemaster in the history of well, ever.

Because taking away freedom from a murderer is slavery, right?

If it was simple incarceration, you might have a point; however, that's contradicted by the ending. The ending itself shows that the Reapers are being forced to work by the hypothetical commander-catalyst - even in the modern day, countries have outlawed penal servitude.

Further, since there's no argument the catalyst overrides their freedom, that would apply to the original catalyst as well... Ethically speaking, that would void any hypothetical responsibility the Reapers themselves had for their crimes in the first place. They had no choice in the matter either way, you're just handing the whip to a new slavemaster.

Modifié par Rommel49, 06 septembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Both are kind of paragon.

Personally I lean towards Control. You refuse to sacrifice the synthetics to your own fear and inflexibility and instead choose to stick around and keep helping the universe just like you have been doing.

you do realize you, as in your shep dies right? and "absolute power corrupts absolutely"  oh and the original catalyst started out by helping ppl too so yeah

note just saying., don't care if you choose control. it be my second option if i had to choose

Yeah. That's the bit about 'fear'.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Taboo-XX wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

[Baa Baa]

D24O wrote...

Paragons don't do drugs.

Drugs are bad, Mckay?

[Iakus]

Lord Goose wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Why Catalyst 2.0. is bad solution? Unless you assume that Paragon is going to opress freedom, kill or enslave anyone who disagrees with him or her, and wil rule the galaxy with the iron hand.

Pretty sure the Leviathans weren't expecting their own Catalyst's "solution" 

[Pitznik]

Rommel49 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Rommel49 wrote...

Control? Every attempt made throughout the series to enforce control over living things ended badly, every single one. Likewise, if you see synthetics as being alive (and I do), then the Reapers themselves qualify - they're intelligent, sapient beings themselves. Indeed Engineer Adams says as much himself "just because I think they're alive doesn't mean I want them to stay that way". Even if everything went off without a hitch (and I doubt it would, do you really think the Reapers told TIM he couldn't get the job done?), then you've still become the greatest slavemaster in the history of well, ever.

Because taking away freedom from a murderer is slavery, right?

If it was simple incarceration, you might have a point; however, that's contradicted by the ending. The ending itself shows that the Reapers are being forced to work by the hypothetical commander-catalyst - even in the modern day, countries have outlawed penal servitude.

Further, since there's no argument the catalyst overrides their freedom, that would apply to the original catalyst as well... ethically speaking, that would void any hypothetical responsibility the Reapers themselves had for their crimes in the first place. They had no choice in the matter either way, you're just handing the whip to a new slavemaster.

- if they're mindless tools, problem doesn't exist

- if they're willing accomplices, forced penal labour is justice and it's ok

- if they're sapient, conscious but unwilling slaves, both to Shepard AI and to the Catalyst, then Shepard AI, if Paragon enough, will work on freeing them, but the problem is very real, and then your slavery analogy is very true

We don't know enough about their nature to properly judge the moral implications :/

[Fiery Phoenix]

D24O wrote...

Paragons don't do drugs.

[Mr.House]

iakus wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Great way to end a tale right?

[Hrothdane]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Great way to end a tale right?

I think genocide is okay when it's Reapers, personally.

I only support the death penalty in extreme cases, such as for serial murderers. Someone did a conservative estimate of the Reaper death toll over all cycles at 100 quadrillion. I'd say that counts.

[ghost9191]

Hrothdane wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Great way to end a tale right?

I think genocide is okay when it's Reapers, personally.

I only support the death penalty in extreme cases, such as for serial murderers. Someone did a conservative estimate of the Reaper death toll over all cycles at 100 quadrillion. I'd say that counts.

ditto for the geth, those bastards killed Jenkins.

[Bill Casey]

Refuse is most in line with Paragon Shepard...
Followed by Destroy with Refuse options...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 septembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[Lord Goose]

Pretty sure the Leviathans weren't expecting their own
Catalyst's "solution"

Yes, but what's the point?

Destroy and Synthesis have obvious Renegade connotations, since in one ending you sacrifice the geth to kill Reapers, and in another you ignore people rights of self-determination.

In Control where is only potential risk that new Control Entity may screw up.

Only possible objection is that Control enslaves the Reapers. However:

1. If Reapers are truly sentient and acted as Catalyst wished, when they deserve their freedom being limited. Basically, Paragon can make them rebuild the galaxy that they had destroyed, and when imprison them forever in the Dark Space. Pay for their crimes, basically.

2. If they are not truly sentient, when nothing. They are tools.

[JunMadine]

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

[Rommel49]

Pitznik wrote...

Rommel49 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Rommel49 wrote...

Control? Every attempt made throughout the series to enforce control over living things ended badly, every single one. Likewise, if you see synthetics as being alive (and I do), then the Reapers themselves qualify - they're intelligent, sapient beings themselves. Indeed Engineer Adams says as much himself "just because I think they're alive doesn't mean I want them to stay that way". Even if everything went off without a hitch (and I doubt it would, do you really think the Reapers told TIM he couldn't get the job done?), then you've still become the greatest slavemaster in the history of well, ever.

Because taking away freedom from a murderer is slavery, right?

If it was simple incarceration, you might have a point; however, that's contradicted by the ending. The ending itself shows that the Reapers are being forced to work by the hypothetical commander-catalyst - even in the modern day, countries have outlawed penal servitude.

Further, since there's no argument the catalyst overrides their freedom, that would apply to the original catalyst as well... ethically speaking, that would void any hypothetical responsibility the Reapers themselves had for their crimes in the first place. They had no choice in the matter either way, you're just handing the whip to a new slavemaster.

- if they're mindless tools, problem doesn't exist

- if they're willing accomplices, forced penal labour is justice and it's ok

- if they're sapient, conscious but unwilling slaves, both to Shepard AI and to the Catalyst, then Shepard AI, if Paragon enough, will work on freeing them, but the problem is very real, and then your slavery analogy is very true

We don't know enough about their nature to properly judge the moral implications :/

Pretty much. That's why I included the precondition of "if you believe the synthetics qualify as being alive", it hinges on that question (I believe they do, but that's me). It's flatly stated in the codex that Destroyers and Sovereign-class capitals are intelligent, sapient entities.

Basically, I see the Reapers as being in the same boat as EDI prior to her being unshackled during the Collector attack on the Normandy; the difference being their governing parameters. The Reapers' willingness (and therefore culpability) in obeying those parameters is a valid question and one that can't really be answered, since they never had the option to do otherwise.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Great way to end a tale right?

I dunno, I think it's kinda nice that a war lived up to being a war by not being easily resolved and free of any sacrifices.

JMO...

(inb4 "But three characters died!! Isn't that enough???")

[C9316]

Neither.

[adroidmortox]

As said, all depends on your Shepard. I still use destroy with my main Shepard, but with my others I've found myself leaning towards control more often since the extended cut.  I like the idea of some of my Shepards being the eternal guardian of the galaxy. I've only ever picked synthesis twice- once because that Shepard started off as a renegade playthrough; but part way through 3 (mainly spurred on by killing Wrex and Mordin), I started to feel guilty so used synthesis as a form of 'redemption equals death.' And the other was BFFs with EDI so wasn't gonna kill her for that reason