348 réponses à ce sujet

[JPR1964]

none, imo!

JPR out!

[MegaSovereign]

Paragon Shepard believes in the right to choose our own fate.

Turning everyone into half-organic/half-machine isn't exactly very paragon, even if there are more pros and cons to this solution.

(Paragon) Control seems like your best bet. You sacrifice yourself to save the many and you turn the Reapers into the Galaxy's Shield.

Destroy can easily be seen as Paragon too depending on whether your Shepard is pragmatist or not.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 06 septembre 2012 - 09:31 .

[darthnick427]

Pitznik wrote...

darthnick427 wrote...

Easy. Destroy again. it's the only option you aren't a hypocrite.

Saving lives of thousands of Geth might be worth more to some Shepard than proving that they're not hypocrites.

But still Destroy is the only option giving you 100% certainty that you stopped the Reapers, forever.

True. But the whole hypocrisy thing I mentioned is a very small reason out of the many reason's I pick destroy every time. Plus the Geth can be rebuilt. Plus the way I see it the Crucible destroys all synthetic hardware, not software. So EDI and the Geth just need sufficient hardware created to get them up and running again

[seitani]

Playing full renegade destroy is win-win ending. You kill the geth on Rannoch (or you will hate synthetics anyway) so only friendly casualty is EDI....and maybe avina from citadel<_< They missed this kind of win-win ending for full paragon.

Modifié par seitani, 06 septembre 2012 - 09:38 .

[The Elite Elite]

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

What's morally reprehensible about Destroy? You win the war by destroying the Reapers at the cost of some electronics. Nothing immoral about that.

[Gogzilla]

seitani wrote...

I'm playing through ME 3 full paragon(savior of Krogan, savior of geth..blah..blah...) and im halfway through the game and already pondering which ending to choose. For renegade characters destroy was easy choice but now i don't which one fits for a full paragon character better. I picked synthesis in the past for Tricia Helfers excellent voice acting.

Its a matter of perspectice really, there is no rigth answer to this.

I think synthesis has more renegade elements to it.
It does involve you taking a leap of faith for a decsion that will effect everyone else.

At the same time i find it to be more paragon than control as the course of history from here on out will be determined by those who surived the war and the cycles.

You don't need a watchful protector or a gaurdian to do things the galaxy find inconvinent to do.

Control empowers Shepards persepctive and sentiments to a ridiculous extent. One individual now holds more power than any other living creature in the galaxy.

The galaxy needs people like that and people like TIM, people willing to sacfice for the greater good.

It may no longer need them in synthesis. The field is leveled so to speak, allowing for a new start if you will.
maybe people like TIM will once again be necessary but may be also not necessary.

A status quo with what you think is right or a new game with a fresh start from everyone.

[seitani]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

seitani wrote...

Playing full renegade destroy is win-win ending. You kill the geth on Rannoch (or you will hate synthetics anyway) so only friendly kill is EDI....and maybe avina from citadel. They missed this kind of win-win ending for full paragon.

Avina wouldn't die; she's only a VI.

yeah avina was a joke

Modifié par seitani, 06 septembre 2012 - 09:41 .

[Pitznik]

seitani wrote...

Playing full renegade destroy is win-win ending. You kill the geth on Rannoch (or you will hate synthetics anyway) so only friendly casualty is EDI....and maybe avina from citadel<_< They missed this kind of win-win ending for full paragon.

Paragon Control!

- as an ultimate synthetic lover, you not only save all the synthetics, you not only confirm there is no "change" needed for synthetics to be accepted, but you become a synthetic yourself!

- you give the most dreaded enemy a chance to redeem themselves, rebuilding what they destroyed

- you rather take the risk than let anyone else die

What is not Paragon about it? Agreeing with TIM? Admitting to be wrong when facing the situation contradicting your previous beliefs is very noble and respectable decision - very Paragon!

[jijeebo]

The nice version of Control seems like the most paragon ending in my opinion... But I guess it depends on what floats your boat because both endings pretty much amount to Shepard sacrificing himself in order to end the reaper threat and achieve peace.

[Inprea]

I believe that control is the more paragon ending as it fits with typical paragon behavior. It has 0 casualties depending on what you consider a person to be. For me a person is their thought process, memories and persona not their physical body. Depending on how you see this it's thus either a 1 or 0 persons casualty for picking it. In synthesis it's pretty certain Shepard is dead. Both of them are extremely high risk. In control you have to worry if one human can have that much power and not begin to view others as less. In synthesis you don't know how people are going to respond to be altered so radically or if the races will continue to get along with one another. Just because we're both synthetic beings doesn't mean I don't hate you for your culture. Plus well. In synthesis you're choosing to drastically alter everyone. I have to say if someone made such a choice for me I would be rather angry. Fortunately Shepard is dead so she/he will never hear that side of the story.

However, all of that is relatively minor compared to one extremely important detail. Control is blue and blue has always meant paragon in the mass effect universe. No matter what we've thought of the ethics or Shepard's reasoning. No matter how foolish or wise a certain choice seems to be blue means paragon. Bioware's ethical color coding since Jade Empire (open palm and closed fist) and probably before.

[seitani]

Pitznik wrote...

seitani wrote...

Playing full renegade destroy is win-win ending. You kill the geth on Rannoch (or you will hate synthetics anyway) so only friendly casualty is EDI....and maybe avina from citadel<_< They missed this kind of win-win ending for full paragon.

Paragon Control!

- as an ultimate synthetic lover, you not only save all the synthetics, you not only confirm there is no "change" needed for synthetics to be accepted, but you become a synthetic yourself!

- you give the most dreaded enemy a chance to redeem themselves, rebuilding what they destroyed

- you rather take the risk than let anyone else die

What is not Paragon about it? Agreeing with TIM? Admitting to be wrong when facing the situation contradicting your previous beliefs is very noble and respectable decision - very Paragon!

Better paragon would have been if Shepard after repairing the galaxy would have led all reapers to the sun and destroy himself in the process

[Iakus]

Lord Goose wrote...

Pretty sure the Leviathans weren't expecting their own
Catalyst's "solution"

Yes, but what's the point?

Destroy and Synthesis have obvious Renegade connotations, since in one ending you sacrifice the geth to kill Reapers, and in another you ignore people rights of self-determination.

In Control where is only potential risk that new Control Entity may screw up.

And if that happened, the Reapers may start reaping again.  Or performing some other horrific acts upon the galaxy in the name of teh Control Entity's "solution"

[Vlk3]

Neither. Control gives you too much power and no man or better- no being should have such a power. Synthesis forces changes on everyone and everything in a galaxy and no one has the right to make that choice. Paragon should understand that.

[Peranor]

I always play full paragon with my main Shep. And should I ever decide to actually finish the game I would still chose destroy.

[Tealjaker94]

I guess Paragon Control would be the ultimate paragon ending. Only Shepard dies, no mass violation of genetic structure.

[TK514]

Destroy and Refuse are the (most) Paragon choices. Synthesis and Control are the outright Renegade choices.

Synthesis has you violating the entire galaxy to remake them into an eons-old mass murderer's (who may very well be broken) idea of 'perfection'.

Control has you creating an AI that becomes a galactic tyrant, forcing the cultures of the galaxy to accept its version of right and wrong or face the consequences.

Destroy has you making potentially heartbreaking sacrifices to ensure the ending of the Reaper threat for all time (fulfilling your stated goal for 2.5 games at the same time).

Refuse has you revisiting and refining the Prothean Ilos team's final choice. Even though you know that you can't win, you do everything you can to make sure the next cycle has a better chance than you did.

[LilLino]

The Elite Elite wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

What's morally reprehensible about Destroy? You win the war by destroying the Reapers at the cost of some electronics. Nothing immoral about that.

Maybe not 100% agreement there. But Geth can be rebuilt indeed, unlike us humans.
What people also tend to forget is that the damn synthetics ALLIED with THE REAPERS to ensure their survival. So stop being so sorry for doing basically the same thing. Except you don't save only your race but 8 others.

What I don't like about control is that Reapers don't evolve or develop, at all. Also they cannot reinforce their numbers withouth murdering anyone. Eventually council races will:
a) Become so powerful to overthrow Shepard's 'guardianship'.
Shepard won't allow himself to be overthrown and violently cast them down before they get to power.
Nobody, nobody wants their freedom to be controlled. 

[Rommel49]

TK514 wrote...

Destroy and Refuse are the (most) Paragon choices. Synthesis and Control are the outright Renegade choices.

Synthesis has you violating the entire galaxy to remake them into an eons-old mass murderer's (who may very well be broken) idea of 'perfection'.

Control has you creating an AI that becomes a galactic tyrant, forcing the cultures of the galaxy to accept its version of right and wrong or face the consequences.

Destroy has you making potentially heartbreaking sacrifices to ensure the ending of the Reaper threat for all time (fulfilling your stated goal for 2.5 games at the same time).

Refuse has you revisiting and refining the Prothean Ilos team's final choice. Even though you know that you can't win, you do everything you can to make sure the next cycle has a better chance than you did.

Basically the way I see it, especially since no matter what, the control option does involve keeping intelligent, sapient beings shackled (the Reapers themselves), that's the whole point - the catalyst controls them, just like Reapers in turn controlled the Geth or indoctrinated organics. The Reapers themselves never had any option but to do what they did, so you can't really say what, if any, culpability they had for their actions. To that extent, I'd consider killing them to be safer and more humane than keeping them shackled for even one more day.

Destroying them was the entire goal from the start, it's what I was ordered to do by my C.O.'s (a paragon trait). What does Eve say about the Krogans nuking their homeworld during the mission on Tuchanka? "Technology changed us. It made life too easy", there's also her speech to the Krogan "you can fight the enemy you were born to destroy and win a new future for our children".

Destroy and refuse are the only options that validate the idea of self-determination (it's worth pointing out that there's nothing that shows refuse definitively results in the war being lost, due to how incredibly vague it is on details). The other two are basically conceding we need the Reapers to make the best of our future... to hell with that noise.

[Pitznik]

LilLino wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

What's morally reprehensible about Destroy? You win the war by destroying the Reapers at the cost of some electronics. Nothing immoral about that.

Maybe not 100% agreement there. But Geth can be rebuilt indeed, unlike us humans.
What people also tend to forget is that the damn synthetics ALLIED with THE REAPERS to ensure their survival. So stop being so sorry for doing basically the same thing. Except you don't save only your race but 8 others.

What I don't like about control is that Reapers don't evolve or develop, at all. Also they cannot reinforce their numbers withouth murdering anyone. Eventually council races will:
a) Become so powerful to overthrow Shepard's 'guardianship'.
Shepard won't allow himself to be overthrown and violently cast them down before they get to power.
Nobody, nobody wants their freedom to be controlled. 

In my headcanon first thing my Paragon Shepard AI does is starting development of anti Reaper defense system. Just to keep some balance, and be prepared for the worst. In cycles longer than 50,000 year it shouldn't be a problem really.

[XXIceColdXX]

Destroy is the paragon choice.

[XXIceColdXX]

seitani wrote...

Playing full renegade destroy is win-win ending. You kill the geth on Rannoch (or you will hate synthetics anyway) so only friendly casualty is EDI....and maybe avina from citadel<_< They missed this kind of win-win ending for full paragon.

Can't tell if your trolling? Everyone has made it clear that destroy isn't the renegade choice. 

[atheelogos]

Depends on the personality of said paragon. My main male paragon would pick Synthesis ever time my female on the other hand would pick Control. It all just depends man

[atheelogos]

Pitznik wrote...

darthnick427 wrote...

Easy. Destroy again. it's the only option you aren't a hypocrite.

Saving lives of thousands of Geth might be worth more to some Shepard than proving that they're not hypocrites.

But still Destroy is the only option giving you 100% certainty that you stopped the Reapers, forever.

And Synthesis is the only option giving you 100% certainty that you've stopped hostility from all synthetics, forever.

[atheelogos]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Destroy is the paragon choice.

How so? Turning on the Geth doesn't seem like a paragon choice.