348 réponses à ce sujet

[Zardoc]

Destroy.

[atheelogos]

Rommel49 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Destroy and Refuse are the (most) Paragon choices. Synthesis and Control are the outright Renegade choices.

Synthesis has you violating the entire galaxy to remake them into an eons-old mass murderer's (who may very well be broken) idea of 'perfection'.

Control has you creating an AI that becomes a galactic tyrant, forcing the cultures of the galaxy to accept its version of right and wrong or face the consequences.

Destroy has you making potentially heartbreaking sacrifices to ensure the ending of the Reaper threat for all time (fulfilling your stated goal for 2.5 games at the same time).

Refuse has you revisiting and refining the Prothean Ilos team's final choice. Even though you know that you can't win, you do everything you can to make sure the next cycle has a better chance than you did.

Basically the way I see it, especially since no matter what, the control option does involve keeping intelligent, sapient beings shackled (the Reapers themselves), that's the whole point - the catalyst controls them, just like Reapers in turn controlled the Geth or indoctrinated organics. The Reapers themselves never had any option but to do what they did, so you can't really say what, if any, culpability they had for their actions.

With that said it's interesting to note that once synthesis is in effect and they're free to do what they want they choose to help rebuild what they were forced to destroy. Maybe they are worth saving after all?

[Village_Idiot]

Perhaps one of the few redeeming qualities of the endings is that, in their base state, none of them can be said to be Paragon/Renegade. It is the player's reasons for choosing an ending that determine their morality.

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 06 septembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[atheelogos]

LilLino wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

What's morally reprehensible about Destroy? You win the war by destroying the Reapers at the cost of some electronics. Nothing immoral about that.

Maybe not 100% agreement there. But Geth can be rebuilt indeed, unlike us humans.

If, like me, you believe the geth have "souls" then no the can't be rebuilt for the same reason a person can't be rebuilt. It would be like killing a person and then cloning them and then say it's the same person with the same thoughts and feelings.... It wouldn't be the same.

Modifié par atheelogos, 07 septembre 2012 - 12:51 .

[atheelogos]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

Perhaps one of the few redeeming qualities of the endings is that, in their base state, none of them can be said to be Paragon/Renegade. It is the player's reasons for choosing an ending that determine their morality.

Agreed that's what I love about them

[Red Panda]

darthnick427 wrote...

Easy. Destroy again. it's the only option you aren't a hypocrite.

But then you prove that organics and synthetics cannot coexist, making the catalyst right.

You really can't win.





Only control has renegade and paragon.

[Village_Idiot]

OperatingWookie wrote...

But then you prove that organics and synthetics cannot coexist, making the catalyst right.

That's quite a leap in logic. Shepard either makes a choice, or condemns the whole galaxy to extinction. None of them "prove" the Catalyst is correct, nor do they contradict it.

If you judge Destroy is the lesser of the four evils, then who is anyone to argue? Whether it "proves" anything is immaterial. It's about what is best for life as we know it.

OperatingWookie wrote...

Only control has renegade and paragon.

As a reflection on Shepard's past morality, yes. But as I've said before, it is your reasons for making the decision to choose Control that determine its nature. A "Renegade" Shep might well choose Control because it avoids a Geth genocide. Would you call that a Renegade choice?

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 07 septembre 2012 - 12:00 .

[Galactica Phantom]

Pitznik wrote...

darthnick427 wrote...

Easy. Destroy again. it's the only option you aren't a hypocrite.

Saving lives of thousands of Geth might be worth more to some Shepard than proving that they're not hypocrites.

But still Destroy is the only option giving you 100% certainty that you stopped the Reapers, forever.

I don't consider those things in 3 to be Geth
The Geth in past games were about finding their own path with no easy shortcuts & unity
Suddenly I'm getting the pinochicco story jammed down my throat & no big fuss about using reaper tech shortcuts & the joys of Individuality

I personally found all those endings comprise who shepard is & all he stands for
Also Leviathan sabotages the endings (They'll rebuild the reapers in Destroy, take back the reins in Control)
leaving green space molestation as your only real ending choice (of course there is Refuse as that is only ending where your shepard isn't a yes man)

[Red Panda]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

As a reflection on Shepard's past morality, yes. But as I've said before, it is your reasons for making the decision to choose Control that determine its nature. A "Renegade" Shep might well choose Control because it avoids a Geth genocide. Would you call that a Renegade choice?

I personally think paragon and renegade should go die in a fire.

Let us make our own decisions. The endings at least let us do this.

[XXIceColdXX]

atheelogos wrote...

LilLino wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
There are no paragon or renegade endings.

All 4 choices are morally reprehensible in some way, so yes, I would agree lol

What's morally reprehensible about Destroy? You win the war by destroying the Reapers at the cost of some electronics. Nothing immoral about that.

Maybe not 100% agreement there. But Geth can be rebuilt indeed, unlike us humans.

If, like me, you believe the geth have "souls" then no the can't be rebuilt for the same reason a person can't be rebuilt. It would be like killing a person and then cloning them and then say it's the same person with the thoughts and feelings.... It wouldn't be the same.

[atheelogos]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Shadrach 88 wrote...

As a reflection on Shepard's past morality, yes. But as I've said before, it is your reasons for making the decision to choose Control that determine its nature. A "Renegade" Shep might well choose Control because it avoids a Geth genocide. Would you call that a Renegade choice?

I personally think paragon and renegade should go die in a fire.

Let us make our own decisions. The endings at least let us do this.

Agreed. This is why I love DA and The Witcher.

[Senior Cinco]

Synthesis or control which one fits better for paragon Shepard

Neither. Your orders and your mission is to Destroy the Reapers...at all costs. That is the Paragon choice.

How would it be Paragon to choose Control? TIM is far from a Paragon.

Synthesis being paragon? How is making the decision to physically alter every living (organic) thing in the Galaxy, being a Paragon? You go changing my DNA without my consent and we have issues...Dr Archer.

Modifié par Senior Cinco, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:18 .

[Reth Shepherd]

None of the above. Turn off game at beam and go read the Marauder Shields comic. (Start at #6: The True Catalyst, as the earlier ones are joke strips.) Forget lose/lose/lose/lose.

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[Sleepicub09]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

None of the above. Turn off game at beam and go read the Marauder Shields comic. (Start at #6: The True Catalyst, as the earlier ones are joke strips.) Forget lose/lose/lose/lose.

there's a yellow one?

[Epique Phael767]

 Refusal and maybe destroy are the onlt real paragon endings. IMO

[Eterna]

Control, you ascend to a higher form to protect those in need, you pretty much usher in an era of peace forever.

I like the morons saying destroy though. Hint: Genocide isn't paragon.

Modifié par Eterna5, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

i would imagine it would depend upon how naive your Shepard is.

I do have a paragon who picked destroy. There was no genocide because there were no Geth. Legion took it in the flashlight on the suicide mission. Kiss it Starboy.

[Dragoonlordz]

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species. Refuse is the selfish one putting your own morality and ego above lives of all other species and Synthesis is hard one to say because saves everyone but changes them all so give with one hand and take away with another kind of ending (imho). Control to me was paragon one because saves all the races, only one changed was self and use Reapers to help the galaxy rebuild and prosper. As others have said though it's all subjective in how you approach or view them. So is no right or wrong one for all, just personal preferences dependant on your own perception of events.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:52 .

[Icinix]

None of the choices are morally aligned.

Your intentions behind them on the other hand are.

[D24O]

Control.... Heavy Risk, but the Priiiize.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

[Zhijn]

When you question "Destroy" the AI kid say synthetic can be repaired, but then the chaos will continue without the reapers. Which is its opinion, and we have already established that the AI is a complete idiot. Plus Shepard has already proven it wrong with EDI and the Geth.

EC dialogue says one thing, the EC epilogue scenes say another. So yeah, whatever. Its all fubar.

Modifié par Zhijn, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:12 .

[Dragoonlordz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

Well in mine you see they lived alongside Qurians and there was peace between them of which agreed to share their homeworld (though I admit I was tempted to let the Geth wipe out Qurians since I asked specifically the Qurians not to go to war with Geth in ME2 and pleaded with them not to do so. So I was kinda annoyed with them anyways for ignoring me). This is where the whole subjectiveness comes in down to individual players. However there still remains the element of killing Jokers Girlfriend. In mine (control) none of my companions died at the end and all races lived, whether people like that Reapers still exist is secondary to saving all their lives and helping rebuild the galaxy to my own Sheaprd.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Wayning_Star]

well, it appears that Synthesis happened before... so it can't be all bad.

http://en.wikipedia....nucleosynthesis

I chose it cause the others had no exact ending of the reaper threat.

[Taboo]

So you enslaved a race instead? Is that Paragon? What if people go against the new Shepard AI?

Many questions. None have answers. Fun to talk about though.