348 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I chose it cause the others had no exact ending of the reaper threat.

ALL of the endings end the Reaper threat.

Except Refuse. LOL.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Wayning_Star wrote...

well, it appears that Synthesis happened before... so it can't be all bad.

http://en.wikipedia....nucleosynthesis

I chose it cause the others had no exact ending of the reaper threat.

Neither does synthesis.

[Eterna]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

You are still responsible for the death of the geth anyway.

[JeffZero]

1.) Blow them up. That'll definitely do it.
2.) Rewrite their command protocols, wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
3.) Rewrite them completely, certainly wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
4.) Let them win because you really want a Picard moment.
5.) Let them win because you really want a Quentin Tarantino moment.

Modifié par JeffZero, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[Wayning_Star]

Zhijn wrote...

When you question "Destroy" the AI kid say synthetic can be repaired, but then the chaos will continue without the reapers. Which is its opinion, and we have already established that the AI is a complete idiot. Plus Shepard has already proven it wrong with EDI and the Geth.

EC dialogue says one thing, the EC epilogue scenes say another. So yeah, whatever. Its all fubar.

note: the synthetic wars were proposed because their was oppression with the Geth by the Quarians. Edi doens't have that hang up with humans, as they've not overstepped their bounds with her independence, Shep actually promotes it. But there is no evidence to say it couldn't happen, if for some reason, organics would choose to destroy all synthetics, and they were to be created again. The test of this cycle could reappear?

[Vigilant111]

Eterna5 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

You are still responsible for the death of the geth anyway.

???

Shepard is only one man / woman, he / she can only do so much

[Jamie9]

Synthesis fits a paragon Shepard the most. Shepard sacrifices his/herself to unite the galaxy. Pretty much the most paragon thing you could ever do.

It's still stupidly not explained, but it's still the paragon option.

[Wayning_Star]

JeffZero wrote...

1.) Blow them up. That'll definitely do it.
2.) Rewrite their command protocols, wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
3.) Rewrite them completely, certainly wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
4.) Let them win because you really want a Picard moment.
5.) Let them win because you really want a Quentin Tarantino moment.

I saved the Geth because of Legion and for other selfish reasons, I needed them to fight the reapers.

[Wayning_Star]

Jamie9 wrote...

Synthesis fits a paragon Shepard the most. Shepard sacrifices his/herself to unite the galaxy. Pretty much the most paragon thing you could ever do.

It's still stupidly not explained, but it's still the paragon option.

I was around 60 paragon, 40 renagade. Kept doing too much nice stuff..lol

[Taboo]

Jamie9 wrote...

Synthesis fits a paragon Shepard the most. Shepard sacrifices his/herself to unite the galaxy. Pretty much the most paragon thing you could ever do.

It's still stupidly not explained, but it's still the paragon option.

Paragons do not force life altering decisions upon people. 

Being Alive =/= Being free.

YOU made the choice for them. It is an extreme authoritarian maneuver. So is Control.

[Wayning_Star]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

You are still responsible for the death of the geth anyway.

???

Shepard is only one man / woman, he / she can only do so much

well, him/her and who knows how many aliens and synthetic beings.. and other non realised allies,who designed the crucible and apparently brought Shep back to life once...

[alienatedflea]

Drudez wrote...

Destroy is the actual paragon ending, or even refuse.
But I think Isichar's response is a more accurate in some cases.

thats a dreaded IT Notion...destroy is definitely NOT paragon...I would say synthesis with the risk of another cycle from beginning...and all the knowledge and collaboration of all the races just seem thats what a true paragon would want...but being the galaxy's savior is pretty paragon as well....

[TheWerdna]

Destroy. Yes, I am aware that was not one of the two choice, destroy is also simply the best paragon choice IMO

Synthesis is giving into what starchild wants and is forcing a change upon everyone in the galaxy without their consent "for their own good". That in my mind is very renegade.

Control: What TIM wanted, taking control of one's enemies own power. Like keeping the Collector base, fits the very defenition of the Renegade mentality.

Honestly, I think all 3 endings are very much renegade, with none being truly paragon.

Modifié par TheWerdna, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Vigilant111]

Jamie9 wrote...

Synthesis fits a paragon Shepard the most. Shepard sacrifices his/herself to unite the galaxy. Pretty much the most paragon thing you could ever do.

It's still stupidly not explained, but it's still the paragon option.

To me, paragon = upholding a principle, be honorable and not just taking the easy way out... synthesis = easy way out with no downsides foretold

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Paragons do not force life altering decisions upon people. 

Being Alive =/= Being free.

YOU made the choice for them. It is an extreme authoritarian maneuver. So is Control.

Sure they do. A paragon Shepard rewrites the Geth. A paragon Shepard cures the genophage. Each and every Krogan was altered at a genetic level. Fortunately, it was a good thing.

So is synthesis. Do people have free will (the ability to do whatever they want) before synthesis? Yes. Do people have free will (the ability to do whatever they want) after synthesis? Yes.

Actually, they can do more now.

If you don't want to alter the state of the galaxy, don't play Mass Effect. Because all of your decisions affect everyone.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Eterna5 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To me Destroy is the mass murderer of another species.

But what if there is no "another species"? i.e. The Geth were gone because no peace was possible between the Quarians and Geth? You had to choose. Quarians had the larger fleet.

You are still responsible for the death of the geth anyway.

Right. And at that moment in time they were not fully AI or fully sapient; they are simply machines. Only Geth VI was sapient, and you had orders from Hackett to deliver the Quarian fleet at all costs. So easy peasy lemon squeezy!

Since they're not sapient, you tell Geth VI to stop the upload and it attacks you. Then Tali kills it. And Gerrel and the Quarians wipe out the rest of the Geth that have done nothing but attack you or side with the reapers the entire 2.5 games (except for Legion). Done and done. Simple.

So essentially you let the Quarians take out the trash.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:43 .

[JBPBRC]

Taboo-XX wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

There are no paragon or renegade endings.

There are only bad endings.

[inversevideo]

Wayning_Star wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

1.) Blow them up. That'll definitely do it.
2.) Rewrite their command protocols, wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
3.) Rewrite them completely, certainly wiping out the rest of their core functions in the process.
4.) Let them win because you really want a Picard moment.
5.) Let them win because you really want a Quentin Tarantino moment.

I saved the Geth because of Legion and for other selfish reasons, I needed them to fight the reapers.

This. Though I did not think of it as selfish. Or at least no more selfish than getting Turian fleets and Krogan troops. Hackett told me to get as many resources, ships, etc as possible for the war effort. The war between Geth an Quarians was wasteful, and we all had mutual enemies. Cooperation was the obvious path to take.

[Luchino1701]

Indeed, destroy is not paragon at all, you kill all synthetics, the reapers, the geth, EDi...
Also, note that Control is blue colored (paragon color), and Destroy is red colored (renegade color).
...

[Taboo]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Paragons do not force life altering decisions upon people. 

Being Alive =/= Being free.

YOU made the choice for them. It is an extreme authoritarian maneuver. So is Control.

Sure they do. A paragon Shepard rewrites the Geth. A paragon Shepard cures the genophage. Each and every Krogan was altered at a genetic level. Fortunately, it was a good thing.

So is synthesis. Do people have free will (the ability to do whatever they want) before synthesis? Yes. Do people have free will (the ability to do whatever they want) after synthesis? Yes.

Actually, they can do more now.

If you don't want to alter the state of the galaxy, don't play Mass Effect. Because all of your decisions affect everyone.

The ending decisions are not Paragon or Renegade.

Both options kill the Geth. The only difference is that one is simply changed into what you want it to be.

Paragon and Renegade make no difference there. The harshness of the action dicates said things not the outcome. There is no difference in the end.

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...
The ending decisions are not Paragon or Renegade.

Both options kill the Geth. The only difference is that one is simply changed into what you want it to be.

Paragon and Renegade make no difference there. The harshness of the action dicates said things not the outcome. There is no difference in the end.

Actually, they are. Paragon and Renegade are just ideals. Even if the game didn't give you points, the decisions would be attributed to the same moral "tests".

Best paragon ending - Synthesis. Allows unity. Races still retain their cultural and physical differences, but obtain further understanding of each other.

Best renegade ending - Destroy. Stay true to the original goal. Get rid of the Reapers. Species are now free to forge their own path.

I think the problem is that many on this forum equate renegade with evil. That's not the case. Picking the renegade option doesn't make you evil, it just has you pick a more "pragmatic" option.

[The Twilight God]

ghost9191 wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Genocide, Catalyst 2.0, or the Reaper version of the Tranquil Solution.

Tough call for a paragon

Great way to end a tale right?

I think genocide is okay when it's Reapers, personally.

I only support the death penalty in extreme cases, such as for serial murderers. Someone did a conservative estimate of the Reaper death toll over all cycles at 100 quadrillion. I'd say that counts.

ditto for the geth, those bastards killed Jenkins.

There is really no proof the geth die. Actually, evidence suggests they aren't killed in Destroy.

The geth are not "reaper tech". Neither is eezo and alternating current (which is all mass effect fields are). The only things that are "reaper tech" are things that indoctrinate and function as an extension of their will. Things that, as EDI would put it, have "reaper signatures".

As far as "Reaper code" is concerned, it's a terminology which is commonly misunderstood. The Geth simply have a code that the Reapers designed to improve their efficiency, but it doesn't make them reaper-like or make them "reaper tech". For instance, say a reaper was an architech and built a house. The house wouldn't blow up just because a reaper designed it. The house isn't "reaper tech". The Geth remain programs distinguished from the reapers. Legion doesn't say it was the code that allowed them to be controlled. The code was simply something that imporvement their efficiency. It had nothing to do with the actual control. Otherwise, Legion would have turned on Shepard.

Any machinery is synthetic. There is no difference between a mech, an alliance cruiser or a geth destroyer platform. The fact that all synthetics, which would include all those ships cruising past that broken relay, were not destroyed or disabled indicates that the Kid may have been fibbing alittle. It's not that far fetched actually. It doesn't want you to choose Destroy. Tali even says that Geth were loading into Quarian suits cybernetics to help them develop their immune system faster. They are still the same software-only lifeforms they have always been. Just like the epilogues, Bioware expected the player to make quick emotionally charged assumptions and ignore the plain facts. They needed to tempt players away from Destroy and it would be harder to do so if only EDI, a single individual, was the only thing at stake. Going back to the epilogue I think a mention of the geth sacrifice would be warranted. Hackett says nothing about any such loss.

[The Twilight God]

Ieldra2 wrote...

No, it's just bullsh*t..

No, this...

Control

Kid: Hey, how about you kill yourself by disintegrating on that there reaper device because interacting with reaper devices always turns out good. We made the device to strip us of our free will and make you our leader. I wouldn't like it if you did that... *cough* that's why I had it built in the first place. Because we DON'T want you to use it.

Shepard: Derp! Sure!!! I just got finished telling TIM it wasn't worth risking all of humanity for, nt to mention the whole game opposing it. But now - five minutes later - I'm totally for it based solely on your say so, Mr. reaper king and I'm willing to kill myself, leaving no one else to save the day if you - the freaking reapers - are deceiving me. I'll ignore the fact that you've pushed this option on your indoctrinated minions every cycle. But I'm special and immune to indoctrination!! DERP!!!

Synthesis

Kid: I finally found a soultion to my galactic social studies assignment. You kill yourself by jumping into a beam and then everyone will have reaper .. I mean totally-not-reaper synthetic tech put in them. And the entire galaxy totally won't be pretty husks or indoctrinated in any way. Pinky swear.

Shepard: Derp!! Sure thing!!! But why didn't you do it yourself?

Kid: It can't be forced... Now please jump into that beam and force it on everyone.

Shepard: Derp!! OK. I eagerly kill myself to advance your objective, Reaper Commander. I'm totally NOT indoctrinated. DERP!!!

Refusal

Shepard: I know we cannot defeat you conventionally, but I'm goona die free and stuff.

Kid: What are you talking about? You're freedom isn't at stack. You life is.

Shepard: I die knowing I did everything to stop you.

The Kid looks over at "tubes" that, if destroyed, would allow the Crucible to fire. Thus killing it, the reapers and end their solution, effectively making it the worst outcome from the Reapers' perspective. The only option that does no compromise with the Reapers.

Kid: Everything, huh? ...So, um, you know everyone you know and love will die right?

Shepard: Yeah, so? And I'm not indctrinated if that's what you're thinking. I just sudden got really really really stupid.

Harbinger: *grin* (Guess I don't have to keep up the charade anymore). SO BE IT!!!

...is bullsh*t. The narrative dictates indoctrination.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:11 .

[Jamie9]

The Twilight God wrote...
...is bullsh*t. The narrative dictates indoctrination.

I don't know why IT-ers think IT would be such a good idea. Shepard shouldn't overcome indoctrination (that would be just as narrative-breaking). Once indoctrination has enough of a prescene to be noticable, it's too late.

And we can't beat the Reapers conventionally (clearly dictated by the story and the writers). This means that the only ending we have is basically Refuse.

[Shermos]

Personally I think Control is the "most" Paragon option and Synthesis is neutral, but you can still argue that Synthesis is Paragon too. Only Destroy is Renegade. Refuse is just idiotic.

Modifié par Shermos, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:25 .