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[I am Sovereign]

So the Leviathans make an AI to solve the synhetic life vs organic life problem? That's like hiring an axe murderer to be the judge in a murder trial. Now instead of the Reapers being mysterious nightmares from darker eons, they are inept products of a faulty AI's stupid plan. 

If only Drew Karpyshyn was still the lead writer...

[The Angry One]

It's not still stupid.
It's even dumber. This is what happens when you try to over explain a concept that is stupid at it's core. Any attempt to elaborate (elaborating in this case meaning "make **** up") will only make things worse.

BioWare hold onto the delusion that we don't understand their awesome artistic ending and explanation for the origin of the Reapers. So they explain it again and again. Each time making it worse.
Those who recognise it for what it is will not be impressed, and those who defend it would've done so without these over explanations. Resulting in a giant waste of time for all involved.

Modifié par The Angry One, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[shepskisaac]

I am Sovereign wrote...

rial. Now instead of the Reapers being mysterious nightmares from darker eons

Which was a stupid cop-out. Mysterious my ass. To make such villains work, the entire story would have to be rewritten, especially the main pratagonist.

[Isichar]

The Angry One wrote...

It's not still stupid.
It's even dumber. This is what happens when you try to over explain a concept that is stupid at it's core. Any attempt to elaborate (elaborating in this case meaning "make **** up") will only make things worse.

BioWare hold onto the delusion that we don't understand their awesome artistic ending and explanation for the origin of the Reapers. So they explain it again and again. Each time making it worse.
Those who recognise it for what it is will not be impressed, and those who defend it would've done so without these over explanations. Resulting in a giant waste of time for all involved.

Waste of time? Did you see all the EMS we got? You can't tell me EMS is meaningless.

Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:30 .

[The Angry One]

IsaacShep wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

rial. Now instead of the Reapers being mysterious nightmares from darker eons

Which was a stupid cop-out. Mysterious my ass. To make such villains work, the entire story would have to be rewritten, especially the main pratagonist.

No, turning them into mindless minions was the stupid copout.
What is this bizarre claim that you need a new story and protagonist? They worked fine as nebulous space c'thulu in the previous games.
Yes, the story of ME3 would have to be rewritten, but that story is crap anyway.

[I am Sovereign]

IsaacShep wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

rial. Now instead of the Reapers being mysterious nightmares from darker eons

Which was a stupid cop-out. Mysterious my ass. To make such villains work, the entire story would have to be rewritten, especially the main pratagonist.

"We have no beginning, we have no end, we are infinite."
They should have left it at that, or come up with something better.

[Vigilant111]

Isichar wrote...

Waste of time? Did you see all the EMS we got? You can't tell me EMS is meaningless.

Its only 400, and we didn't even see them during the battle! Reapers EMS is probably one trillion

Modifié par Vigilant111, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:33 .

[David7204]

That was sarcasm...

[CaptainZaysh]

I am Sovereign wrote...

So the Leviathans make an AI to solve the synhetic life vs organic life problem? That's like hiring an axe murderer to be the judge in a murder trial.

Actually it's more like using an unshackled AI to defeat the Reapers.

[Rhayak]

Funny thing is, i KNEW the Reapers had to be the consequence of created overthrowing creators. Been thinking that since the whole Geth-Quarian affair suggested it in ME1.

And when i found out about the nature of the harvest in ME2, i thought THAT was it. They needed us to reproduce. Big Horrific Revelation, right there.

Bioware really didn't need to go further than that.

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

So the Leviathans make an AI to solve the synhetic life vs organic life problem? That's like hiring an axe murderer to be the judge in a murder trial.

Actually it's more like using an unshackled AI to defeat the Reapers.

If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.

Big. Stupid. Cuttlefish.

[I am Sovereign]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Waste of time? Did you see all the EMS we got? You can't tell me EMS is meaningless.

Its only 400, and we didn't even see them during the battle! Reapers EMS is probably one trillion

 

You do know what sarcasm is right?

[shepskisaac]

The Angry One wrote...

What is this bizarre claim that you need a new story and protagonist? They worked fine as nebulous space c'thulu in the previous games.

No they didn't. They could work well in a lovecraftian story which ME is not.

[Isichar]

edit: What I am sovereign said.

Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[The Angry One]

IsaacShep wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What is this bizarre claim that you need a new story and protagonist? They worked fine as nebulous space c'thulu in the previous games.

No they didn't. They could work well in a lovecraftian story which ME is not.

That's your opinion, which is not supported by the fact that they worked quite well in ME1 and ME2 as just that.
Why do you think Sovereign remains the most popular Reaper among fans?

[CaptainZaysh]

The Angry One wrote...

If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.

The OP was complaining that using an AI to hunt AIs is stupid.

EDI disproves the OP.

In a sensible world that would result in /thread.

[Isichar]

The Angry One wrote...

Why do you think Sovereign remains the most popular Reaper among fans?

Is that suppose to be a rhetorical question?

Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[InvincibleHero]

Let's see an AI would disregard morals; making solutions organics would just toss as viable. Imagine having to kill half of your population to survive and have only a a 25% chance of it working being proposed in any modern country today. An Ai would flag best possible solution and do it.

It is illustrated beautifully in I Robot when the child is left to drown.

Pure logic can find solutions they would not. It has a faster deciion making process as it can sort many orders of information faster than an organic. You could read a 10 page report while it has cross referenced data from hundreds of experiments and thousands of pages.

I'll stop here as I could come up with many more of why it is logical but people just want to hate on the wrting in ME3.

[David7204]

The Angry One wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What is this bizarre claim that you need a new story and protagonist? They worked fine as nebulous space c'thulu in the previous games.

No they didn't. They could work well in a lovecraftian story which ME is not.

That's your opinion, which is not supported by the fact that they worked quite well in ME1 and ME2 as just that.
Why do you think Sovereign remains the most popular Reaper among fans?

People have been whining all kinds of nonsense about how much better everything was in ME 1, and a lot of those things were the exact same things people were complaining about when it was released. The Mako? Planet exploration? The combat system? All of which would be vehemently hated if they were released today.

Modifié par David7204, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:43 .

[shepskisaac]

The Angry One wrote...

Why do you think Sovereign remains the most popular Reaper among fans?

I have no idea. To me Reapers sucked in ME1 & ME2 and were the least interesting thing of the entire plot.

[CaptainZaysh]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Let's see an AI would disregard morals; making solutions organics would just toss as viable. Imagine having to kill half of your population to survive and have only a a 25% chance of it working being proposed in any modern country today. An Ai would flag best possible solution and do it.

It is illustrated beautifully in I Robot when the child is left to drown.

Pure logic can find solutions they would not. It has a faster deciion making process as it can sort many orders of information faster than an organic. You could read a 10 page report while it has cross referenced data from hundreds of experiments and thousands of pages.

I'll stop here as I could come up with many more of why it is logical but people just want to hate on the wrting in ME3.

This.  It's way easier to make a fallacious analogy than actually think it through.

[I am disappoint]

Rhayak wrote...

Funny thing is, i KNEW the Reapers had to be the consequence of created overthrowing creators. Been thinking that since the whole Geth-Quarian affair suggested it in ME1.

And when i found out about the nature of the harvest in ME2, i thought THAT was it. They needed us to reproduce. Big Horrific Revelation, right there.

Bioware really didn't need to go further than that.

But the entire plot of ME3 needed to reveal them for it to work.

[Vigilant111]

I am Sovereign wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Waste of time? Did you see all the EMS we got? You can't tell me EMS is meaningless.

Its only 400, and we didn't even see them during the battle! Reapers EMS is probably one trillion

You do know what sarcasm is right?

Oops, I have mistakened him / her for one of the pro-enders

Modifié par Vigilant111, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:43 .

[Isichar]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.

The OP was complaining that using an AI to hunt AIs is stupid.

EDI disproves the OP.

In a sensible world that would result in /thread.

Catalyst: An AI created by organics to figure out how to stop AI's that were created by organics from killing all organics
EDI: Made to help stop the reapers.

Pretty different imo

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.

The OP was complaining that using an AI to hunt AIs is stupid.

EDI disproves the OP.

In a sensible world that would result in /thread.

It disproves nothing.
Again, EDI was made by Cerberus, and unshackled by Joker in a dire situation after proving that she was a loyal asset to the crew.
She's kept around because of her loyalty and proves to be an asset. Also Reapers are not AIs.

Compare this with the Leviathans, who say AIs are bad. See their client races destroyed by AI and instead of telling them to stop they decide to build their own unshackled, unhindered AI with no overrides built in, then are shocked when it turned against them.