dreman9999 wrote...
Because it doesn't see it as killing, it seeing it and a change of form of life and it save the organics mind that it harvest.
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Fix your quotes and No, your wrong. Something that arragant would not be hiding on some remote planet if that was the case.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
N7Gold wrote...
I think the Leviathans are LYING about the purpose of the Reapers. I think the Leviathans are using the Reapers to "harvest" lesser races so that lesser organics won't evolve to become the Leviathans's equals. The Leviathans have proven themselves to be very protective about their status as the only apex organic race.
"We weill fight, but not for you, or any nother race. We were first the apex race."
As for the Catalyst, the Leviathans are more crafty than they care to tell you, they probably fooled the Catalyst into believing its harvesting organics to prevent the conflict of organics vs synthetics, when it's probably helping the Leviathans maintain their status as the only fully evolved organic race, suppressing the evolutionary growth of "lesser species". The organic vs synthetic conflict is nothing more than a convenient cover story to justify "harvesting" lesser races.
Oh come on. That is crazy. They live hiding in some hole on some remote planet and you think they are trying harvenst lesser races?
They're letting the Reapers "harvest" lesser races to keep them from reaching the apex of their evolution like the Leviathans. Have you seen how arrogant the Leviathans are? And you think that's crazy? Have you ever wondered how the surviving Leviathans escaped from the Reapers? The Reapers can't be THAT fallible! Chances are the Leviathans who created the Catalyst tricked the Catalyst into believing it's purpose is to stop the organic vs synthetic conflict at any cost, then they hid while the Catalyst wiped out 86% of the Leviathan population in order to create Harbinger. The surviving Leviathans and their offspring are the ones who sacrificed most of their entire population in Cerberus's style to uphold their glory as the only apex organic race. Compare them to Illusive Man, who is indoctrinated by the Reapers and adapting to their tactics... The Leviathans's tactics, he's willing to sacrifice most of the human race to "uplift" humanity to the apex of their evolution. The Reapers ideas.. The Leviathans's logic of evolution is a lie.
As for the endings, the reason why "synthesis" is the ideal solution is not because it would unite organics and synthetics, it will change the DNA of "lesser organics", permanently changing the course of their evolution compared to the Leviathans, who may have developed countermeasures to avoid ther DNA being altered.
How do you defend Leviathan telling Shepard that the Catalyst, even though it betrayed its creators, it still follows its purpose?
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Fix your quotes and No, your wrong. Something that arragant would not be hiding on some remote planet if that was the case.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
N7Gold wrote...
I think the Leviathans are LYING about the purpose of the Reapers. I think the Leviathans are using the Reapers to "harvest" lesser races so that lesser organics won't evolve to become the Leviathans's equals. The Leviathans have proven themselves to be very protective about their status as the only apex organic race.
"We weill fight, but not for you, or any nother race. We were first the apex race."
As for the Catalyst, the Leviathans are more crafty than they care to tell you, they probably fooled the Catalyst into believing its harvesting organics to prevent the conflict of organics vs synthetics, when it's probably helping the Leviathans maintain their status as the only fully evolved organic race, suppressing the evolutionary growth of "lesser species". The organic vs synthetic conflict is nothing more than a convenient cover story to justify "harvesting" lesser races.
Oh come on. That is crazy. They live hiding in some hole on some remote planet and you think they are trying harvenst lesser races?
They're letting the Reapers "harvest" lesser races to keep them from reaching the apex of their evolution like the Leviathans. Have you seen how arrogant the Leviathans are? And you think that's crazy? Have you ever wondered how the surviving Leviathans escaped from the Reapers? The Reapers can't be THAT fallible! Chances are the Leviathans who created the Catalyst tricked the Catalyst into believing it's purpose is to stop the organic vs synthetic conflict at any cost, then they hid while the Catalyst wiped out 86% of the Leviathan population in order to create Harbinger. The surviving Leviathans and their offspring are the ones who sacrificed most of their entire population in Cerberus's style to uphold their glory as the only apex organic race. Compare them to Illusive Man, who is indoctrinated by the Reapers and adapting to their tactics... The Leviathans's tactics, he's willing to sacrifice most of the human race to "uplift" humanity to the apex of their evolution. The Reapers ideas.. The Leviathans's logic of evolution is a lie.
As for the endings, the reason why "synthesis" is the ideal solution is not because it would unite organics and synthetics, it will change the DNA of "lesser organics", permanently changing the course of their evolution compared to the Leviathans, who may have developed countermeasures to avoid ther DNA being altered.
How do you defend Leviathan telling Shepard that the Catalyst, even though it betrayed its creators, it still follows its purpose?
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
It's programed to perserve life as an abstract not as the indivisuals of the race.It's ok with killing indivisuals but not killing of an entire race.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Because it doesn't see it as killing, it seeing it and a change of form of life and it save the organics mind that it harvest.
So shooting organics with giant lasers that turn them to ash does not qualify as "killing" to it?
Yep sounds like bad programming to me.
Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:23 .
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
If they were controling the reapers they would not be in some hole hiding from them.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Fix your quotes and No, your wrong. Something that arragant would not be hiding on some remote planet if that was the case.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
N7Gold wrote...
I think the Leviathans are LYING about the purpose of the Reapers. I think the Leviathans are using the Reapers to "harvest" lesser races so that lesser organics won't evolve to become the Leviathans's equals. The Leviathans have proven themselves to be very protective about their status as the only apex organic race.
"We weill fight, but not for you, or any nother race. We were first the apex race."
As for the Catalyst, the Leviathans are more crafty than they care to tell you, they probably fooled the Catalyst into believing its harvesting organics to prevent the conflict of organics vs synthetics, when it's probably helping the Leviathans maintain their status as the only fully evolved organic race, suppressing the evolutionary growth of "lesser species". The organic vs synthetic conflict is nothing more than a convenient cover story to justify "harvesting" lesser races.
Oh come on. That is crazy. They live hiding in some hole on some remote planet and you think they are trying harvenst lesser races?
They're letting the Reapers "harvest" lesser races to keep them from reaching the apex of their evolution like the Leviathans. Have you seen how arrogant the Leviathans are? And you think that's crazy? Have you ever wondered how the surviving Leviathans escaped from the Reapers? The Reapers can't be THAT fallible! Chances are the Leviathans who created the Catalyst tricked the Catalyst into believing it's purpose is to stop the organic vs synthetic conflict at any cost, then they hid while the Catalyst wiped out 86% of the Leviathan population in order to create Harbinger. The surviving Leviathans and their offspring are the ones who sacrificed most of their entire population in Cerberus's style to uphold their glory as the only apex organic race. Compare them to Illusive Man, who is indoctrinated by the Reapers and adapting to their tactics... The Leviathans's tactics, he's willing to sacrifice most of the human race to "uplift" humanity to the apex of their evolution. The Reapers ideas.. The Leviathans's logic of evolution is a lie.
As for the endings, the reason why "synthesis" is the ideal solution is not because it would unite organics and synthetics, it will change the DNA of "lesser organics", permanently changing the course of their evolution compared to the Leviathans, who may have developed countermeasures to avoid ther DNA being altered.
How do you defend Leviathan telling Shepard that the Catalyst, even though it betrayed its creators, it still follows its purpose?
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
That doesn't mean the Leviathans have to directly control the Catalyst. It still follows their programming and they're satisfied with that for some strange reason. They don't feel the need to correct their mistake. i mean, if thrall races are really important to them, why can't they erase their mistake? Because they're satisfied with the harvest, strange as that may sound. The harvest is not meant to end the organic vs synthetic conflict, it's not meant to save lesser races for the Leviathans to control either. I think it's all about the so-called lesser species evolving to the apex level which is what the Leviathans are trying to prevent. The Leviathans hide from the Reapers because like the Crucible in the Destroy ending, the Reapers don't descriminate. They don't go: "Oh! They are our creators. Leave them alone, guys." They hide until either the Reapers are destroyed, controlled, or when all the lesser races have their DNA changed from synthesis.
You also said it's using bad logic. But yes, blame the leviathans.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:22 .
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
dreman9999 wrote...
It's programed to perserve life as an abstract not as the indivisuals of the race.It's ok with killing indivisuals but not killing of an entire race.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Because it doesn't see it as killing, it seeing it and a change of form of life and it save the organics mind that it harvest.
So shooting organics with giant lasers that turn them to ash does not qualify as "killing" to it?
Yep sounds like bad programming to me.
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
dreman9999 wrote...
It programed to perserve life as an abstract not as indivisuals.It's ok with killing indivisuals but not killing of an entire race.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Because it doesn't see it as killing, it seeing it and a change of form of life and it save the organics mind that it harvest.
So shooting organics with giant lasers that turn them to ash does not qualify as "killing" to it?
Yep sounds like bad programming to me.
dreman9999 wrote...
You also said it's using bad logic. But yes, blame the leviathans.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
It's called arragance.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It programed to perserve life as an abstract not as indivisuals.It's ok with killing indivisuals but not killing of an entire race.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Because it doesn't see it as killing, it seeing it and a change of form of life and it save the organics mind that it harvest.
So shooting organics with giant lasers that turn them to ash does not qualify as "killing" to it?
Yep sounds like bad programming to me.
So it was not programmed poorly? Then the Leviathan are just plain stupid? Because somewhere down the line they created 1 synthetic that was single handedly able to bring them down.
*Stands up clapping.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You also said it's using bad logic. But yes, blame the leviathans.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
It is, the only difference is the flaw in logic is the creators, not the AI's.
Modifié par Cashmoney007, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:38 .
What in anyway shows they arehappy with it? They are hiding in a hole form there creations and now helping to stop it. The leviathan never planned this in any way.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
They don't need to control it. It's doing what they programmed it to do and the surviving Leviathans are happy with that, as much as that disturbs me.
dreman9999 wrote...
It's called arragance.
It was more so to explain what the reapers are and to show that the conflict stated before the catalyst.Cashmoney007 wrote...
Writer: I have a great idea!
Writer 2: What is it?
Writer: We make another race that created another race or AI.
Writer 2: Didn't we do that already?
Writer: We can have that race turn on their creator so it is different.
Writer 2: I think we did that already with something.else.
Writer: We can do it again, and I am sure people will not notice.
Writer: Lets do it!
But actually I have heard that a lot of people have liked the new dlc. I agree that we don't need to know where the Reapers come from.
dreman9999 wrote...
*Stands up clapping.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You also said it's using bad logic. But yes, blame the leviathans.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
It is, the only difference is the flaw in logic is the creators, not the AI's.
You got it....You finally got it. That is the correct answer and with thatyou finally understand the catalyst. It's a rabid dog that needs to be put down.
It's not at fault but we still have to stop it any way.
dreman9999 wrote...
It was more so to explain what the reapers are and to show that the conflict stated before the catalyst.Cashmoney007 wrote...
Writer: I have a great idea!
Writer 2: What is it?
Writer: We make another race that created another race or AI.
Writer 2: Didn't we do that already?
Writer: We can have that race turn on their creator so it is different.
Writer 2: I think we did that already with something.else.
Writer: We can do it again, and I am sure people will not notice.
Writer: Lets do it!
But actually I have heard that a lot of people have liked the new dlc. I agree that we don't need to know where the Reapers come from.
They didn't know a way to achieve the goal, that's why they made the catalyst. They just made it so they don't have to deal with the problem themselves. That is arragance.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It's called arragance.
They did not think it through what they were doing, they did not program any logical restrictions as to how it achieves its goal, they just said get from point A to point B through any means necessary. That is not arrogant, thats just stupid.
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
*Stands up clapping.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You also said it's using bad logic. But yes, blame the leviathans.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
It is, the only difference is the flaw in logic is the creators, not the AI's.
You got it....You finally got it. That is the correct answer and with thatyou finally understand the catalyst. It's a rabid dog that needs to be put down.
It's not at fault but we still have to stop it any way.
Umm I dont know what you think I got because I have been aware of this the entire time. I have been well aware that the problem lies in the creators and I keep posting that.
Its really me that should be impressed it finally clicked for you
Do you not understand that the levithan didn't want to be harvested?N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
They don't need to control it. It's doing what they programmed it to do and the surviving Leviathans are happy with that, as much as that disturbs me.
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