dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:43 .
dreman9999 wrote...
What in anyway shows they arehappy with it? They are hiding in a hole form there creations and now helping to stop it. The leviathan never planned this in any way.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
They don't need to control it. It's doing what they programmed it to do and the surviving Leviathans are happy with that, as much as that disturbs me.
Modifié par N7Gold, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:47 .
No , you didn't. There was never any mention of the catalyst creators pre-ec. You historicly stated that the catalyst was using flawed logic. Never that the logic came form it's crators.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Yeah I have been saying the flaw lies in the creators since I beat ME3 since march 10th. The Catalyst is flawed because his creators are flawed. The fact that the catalyst sees what it is doing as a solution is because it was not programmed to do otherwise, ERGO bad programming from the leviathans.
Are we finally on the same page here?
That makes no sense...."I don't like what going on to my race, but I'm leetin git happen anyway and I'm going to hide here not getting anything I want and I'm ok with it"N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What in anyway shows they arehappy with it? They are hiding in a hole form there creations and now helping to stop it. The leviathan never planned this in any way.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
They don't need to control it. It's doing what they programmed it to do and the surviving Leviathans are happy with that, as much as that disturbs me.
The Leviathans don't feel the need to correct their mistake. All the evidence points to the Leviathans that it's their fault for starting the harvest in the first place. They created the Catalyst to save organic life at any cost because dead races can't give tribute to them, or serve their needs. If the lesser races were really that important to the Leviathans 's lifestyle, they would have helped Shepard and all the other races fight the Reapers, but no, they said they won't fight for Shepard or any other "lesser race".
dreman9999 wrote...
No , you didn't. There was never any mention of the catalyst creators pre-ec. You historicly stated that the catalyst was using flawed logic. Never that the logic came form it's crators.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Yeah I have been saying the flaw lies in the creators since I beat ME3 since march 10th. The Catalyst is flawed because his creators are flawed. The fact that the catalyst sees what it is doing as a solution is because it was not programmed to do otherwise, ERGO bad programming from the leviathans.
Are we finally on the same page here?
dreman9999 wrote...
That makes no sense...."I don't like what going on to my race, but I'm leetin git happen anyway and I'm going to hide here not getting anything I want and I'm ok with it"N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What in anyway shows they arehappy with it? They are hiding in a hole form there creations and now helping to stop it. The leviathan never planned this in any way.N7Gold wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
And the catalyst stated that it harvested it's creators...That means the leviathans are not controling it.N7Gold wrote...
Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
To you it's not very well, but to it all it matter is that it's doing it. Understand that programing is just a form of translation for machines.. Machines do what is programed into it, not what we say. If the translation is in error, it with fallow that translation becasue thats the only way it gets commands. A machine is a slave to it's programing and anyone that writes it's programing, not to the people who interface with it.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaue it still is fallowing it perpose. That does not mean the leviathans are controling the catalyst.
A cars perpose is to transport by moving forward, if a car isout of control, is it still doing it's perpose?
Not very well.
Ok so what your saying is I should not blame the Catalyst but his creators? Because thats what i have been doing hence the multiple "bad programming" comments.
That's basically it. A robot can't lie about its programming, but an organic being like a human can lie about his/her motives.
They don't need to control it. It's doing what they programmed it to do and the surviving Leviathans are happy with that, as much as that disturbs me.
The Leviathans don't feel the need to correct their mistake. All the evidence points to the Leviathans that it's their fault for starting the harvest in the first place. They created the Catalyst to save organic life at any cost because dead races can't give tribute to them, or serve their needs. If the lesser races were really that important to the Leviathans 's lifestyle, they would have helped Shepard and all the other races fight the Reapers, but no, they said they won't fight for Shepard or any other "lesser race".
Is basicly waht your say the leviathans are thinking.
That makes no sense.
Modifié par N7Gold, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:57 .
The Angry One wrote...
CaptainZaysh wrote...
I am Sovereign wrote...
So the Leviathans make an AI to solve the synhetic life vs organic life problem? That's like hiring an axe murderer to be the judge in a murder trial.
Actually it's more like using an unshackled AI to defeat the Reapers.
If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.
Big. Stupid. Cuttlefish.
Pre-ec, Everything the catalyst states is so vague nothing could be said solidly to what was going on. No one ever statedit was a machine doing what it's programed to do. Not one person.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No , you didn't. There was never any mention of the catalyst creators pre-ec. You historicly stated that the catalyst was using flawed logic. Never that the logic came form it's crators.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Yeah I have been saying the flaw lies in the creators since I beat ME3 since march 10th. The Catalyst is flawed because his creators are flawed. The fact that the catalyst sees what it is doing as a solution is because it was not programmed to do otherwise, ERGO bad programming from the leviathans.
Are we finally on the same page here?
The catalyst explaining its purpose and means was enough to figure out that whoever created it ****ed up hard. Its focus on one goal over any consequence that resulted from it was clear since the original ending even if the specific details were unknown.
And the Catalyst is using flawed logic, because it was programmed with flawed logic.
If you want to argue its doing what it is programmed to well then I agree. And sorry if you misunderstood that.
dreman9999 wrote...
Pre-ec, Everything the catalyst states is so vague nothing could be said solidly to what was going on. No one ever statedit was a machine doing what it's programed to do. Not one person.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No , you didn't. There was never any mention of the catalyst creators pre-ec. You historicly stated that the catalyst was using flawed logic. Never that the logic came form it's crators.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Yeah I have been saying the flaw lies in the creators since I beat ME3 since march 10th. The Catalyst is flawed because his creators are flawed. The fact that the catalyst sees what it is doing as a solution is because it was not programmed to do otherwise, ERGO bad programming from the leviathans.
Are we finally on the same page here?
The catalyst explaining its purpose and means was enough to figure out that whoever created it ****ed up hard. Its focus on one goal over any consequence that resulted from it was clear since the original ending even if the specific details were unknown.
And the Catalyst is using flawed logic, because it was programmed with flawed logic.
If you want to argue its doing what it is programmed to well then I agree. And sorry if you misunderstood that.
You only stated, post-ec, that it was using flawed logic. Never did you say it was it's creators.
Everything youstated post ec reflected that it was at fault for the conflict. Not once did you stay it's doing what it programed to do. Not once. You never stated that the logic originated form it creator before I brought it up.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Pre-ec, Everything the catalyst states is so vague nothing could be said solidly to what was going on. No one ever statedit was a machine doing what it's programed to do. Not one person.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No , you didn't. There was never any mention of the catalyst creators pre-ec. You historicly stated that the catalyst was using flawed logic. Never that the logic came form it's crators.Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It cllicked for me the day EC came out. I've been saying this for 3 months.
Yeah I have been saying the flaw lies in the creators since I beat ME3 since march 10th. The Catalyst is flawed because his creators are flawed. The fact that the catalyst sees what it is doing as a solution is because it was not programmed to do otherwise, ERGO bad programming from the leviathans.
Are we finally on the same page here?
The catalyst explaining its purpose and means was enough to figure out that whoever created it ****ed up hard. Its focus on one goal over any consequence that resulted from it was clear since the original ending even if the specific details were unknown.
And the Catalyst is using flawed logic, because it was programmed with flawed logic.
If you want to argue its doing what it is programmed to well then I agree. And sorry if you misunderstood that.
You only stated, post-ec, that it was using flawed logic. Never did you say it was it's creators.
We know its killing things to preserve life in a meaningless cycle. As I already said that is enough to realize whoever created him ****ed up.
And as I said, I have been arguing against the creators logic this entire thread, sorry if you did not understand the context but that does not change it.
1. The leviathan were the problem.sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Dumb Leviathan race is still dumb.
1) It is the only race to have created an AI to solve a problem between organics and synthetics at all costs, and the AI decided the Leviathans were the problem.
2) It is the only race to allow itself to get harvested by its creations, the reapers and made into the first true reaper, Harbinger.
3) Its remaining survivors still think that its creation was a good idea. This is the same as humans deciding to blow up the world one day, and the few survivors several thousand years from now still thinking that was a good idea. No, it was not a good idea. It was dumb.
4) Leviathans, you were like this cat when you made the AI.
dreman9999 wrote...
You missing the point here. They are fighting to live. If they are fighting to live that does not mean they are happy with the results of the catalyst.
dreman9999 wrote...
Everything youstated post ec reflected that it was at fault for the conflict. Not once did you stay it's doing what it programed to do. Not once. You never stated that the logic originated form it creator before I brought it up.
Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .
Here's want your not getting.N7Gold wrote...
"If they are fighting to live that does not mean they are happy with the results of the catalyst."
That definitely makes no sense.
Isn't every organic fighting for the right to live? The Leviathans should put their personal feelings about "lesser races" aside, and team up with the lesser races in a fight for survival. Every other race had to learn how to throw away petty grudges and eprsonal feelings about each other, like the Krogan and Turians, Batarians and Humans, and band together so they have a chance of surviving agaisnt the Reapers. But the issue is the Leviathans don't know how to swallow their pride, even for just a minute.
Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .
Links to where you stated this before I stated it, please?Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Everything youstated post ec reflected that it was at fault for the conflict. Not once did you stay it's doing what it programed to do. Not once. You never stated that the logic originated form it creator before I brought it up.
Actually I said it was due to bad programming a good 5+ times incase you missed it. I would assume you would figure that the bad programming was because of the creators but I obviously gave you too much credit.
I blame the creators.
Are we clear? Because TBH I dont really care if you only want to continue arguing what you think I have said.
Sayingthat it still doing what it's programed to do does not mean it happy with it results. That just means the catalyst is still doing what it's programed to do.sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You missing the point here. They are fighting to live. If they are fighting to live that does not mean they are happy with the results of the catalyst.
No. Just prior to that they said they were happy with the results of the Catalyst, and that it still serves its purpose. Then after Shepard shames them into fighting, they join the fight but do so out of their own long lost pride.
They are stupid cuttlefish with fancy globes. Nothing more. They need to go into the first wave of the attack to soften up the reapers, and just make sure the reapers take them out first.
dreman9999 wrote...
Links to where you stated this before I stated it, please?Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Everything youstated post ec reflected that it was at fault for the conflict. Not once did you stay it's doing what it programed to do. Not once. You never stated that the logic originated form it creator before I brought it up.
Actually I said it was due to bad programming a good 5+ times incase you missed it. I would assume you would figure that the bad programming was because of the creators but I obviously gave you too much credit.
I blame the creators.
Are we clear? Because TBH I dont really care if you only want to continue arguing what you think I have said.
Here's what I'm saying. You never started to say the creatoers were at fault till I statedit first and made it clear. Get it?Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Links to where you stated this before I stated it, please?Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Everything youstated post ec reflected that it was at fault for the conflict. Not once did you stay it's doing what it programed to do. Not once. You never stated that the logic originated form it creator before I brought it up.
Actually I said it was due to bad programming a good 5+ times incase you missed it. I would assume you would figure that the bad programming was because of the creators but I obviously gave you too much credit.
I blame the creators.
Are we clear? Because TBH I dont really care if you only want to continue arguing what you think I have said.
Nope if you have something relevant to what I believe now that you seem to finally get it feel free to say it. Otherwise I dont feel the need to prove myself to you.
Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:25 .
dreman9999 wrote...
Here what I'm saying. You never started to say the creatoers were at fault till I statedit first and made it clear. Get it?
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