319 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainne Chapel]

MegaSovereign wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

No, Cthulu explanation never worked for me from one simple reason - Reapers are machines. And machines are created by someone.

If they were some kind of space squids in armor, so maybe, but as inteligent spaceship they are result of someone's work. Thanks to this I always accepted Sovereign's "we have no beggining..." as priggish talk of machine with little God complex, nothing more.

Sovereign's statements were invalidated the minute we got to see a Reaper being created in ME2.

Or rather, the moment he got blown up when he foolishly overwhelmed himself in battle against "messy organics"

[GeoGirl2008]

Rhayak wrote...

Funny thing is, i KNEW the Reapers had to be the consequence of created overthrowing creators. Been thinking that since the whole Geth-Quarian affair suggested it in ME1.

And when i found out about the nature of the harvest in ME2, i thought THAT was it. They needed us to reproduce. Big Horrific Revelation, right there.

Bioware really didn't need to go further than that.

Agreed! They totally could have left it at that, and then in the third game, the fact that you unite the entire galaxy against these giant mosquitos and prove that cooperation is awesome you should be able to defeat the stupid things! 

I would have been supremely happy with that. You still made sacrifices along the way, you still experience the bittersweet emotions of your friends and squadmates sacrificing themselves to bring about alliances that will strengthen your offensive against the reapers. And in the end if your EMS was high enough you could blast the reapers back into dark space and ride off into the sunset with your LI, retired forever from saving the galaxy.

If BioWare didn't feel that would exclude Shepard from further games in the mass effect universe, they could have pulled a Batman DKR and had Shep fake his/her death so they would never be called upon again. After all Shep has done for the Galaxy, he/she deserves to retire happily.

[dsl08002]

Its the quotes from sovereign that is the main reason the motives and the origin of the reapers you hear from the catalyst is rubbish.

for example:

"We are each a nation independent free of all weakness, you cannot even grasp the nature of our existence"

Then its this:

"Millions of years after your civilazation has been ERATICATED and forgotten...." 

the catalyst says that they save civilazation and preserve them, what a load of

then its the final piece i want to share and i apologize for shouting but i want everyone to remember this one. Because this is what punch a  really big hole through the catalyst logic:

"YOUR EXTINCTION IS INEVITEBLE, WE ARE THE END OF EVERYTHING"
"YOU CANNOT ESCAPE YOUR DOOM"

im sorry Bioware but please change the motives and origins of reapers,period

Modifié par dsl08002, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:08 .

[ObserverStatus]

JamesFaith wrote...
No, Cthulu explanation never worked for me from one simple reason - Reapers are machines. And machines are created by someone.
If they were some kind of space squids in armor, so maybe, but as inteligent spaceship they are result of someone's work. Thanks to this I always accepted Sovereign's "we have no beggining..." as priggish talk of machine with little God complex, nothing more.

Space Cthulhu still worked better than this explanation...

[David7204]

No. Beating the Reapers needs to involve something more than a high EMS. EMS can get you 99.9999% of the way there, but something right at the end needs to tip the scales.

And I really would not want to see Shepard becoming a hermit.

[I am disappoint]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

It's not really that similar.
They're actually pretty different, in fact mostly the opposites. 

Jesus.  I'll spell it out for you:

1).  They are both AIs.

2).  They are both employed to defeat synthetics.

The OP was claiming that it is stupid to employ an AI to defeat synthetics.  EDI is an AI employed to defeat synthetics.  It is not stupid to employ EDI.  Do you get it yet?  How about if I draw it in crayon?

You just used two points.
The Reapers and Organics are pretty similar.

1) They both use space ships and fire stuff
2) They're made up of atoms


But back to the point, not all Reapers are Synthetic built(Unless Bioware retconned that from the dialogue with the Catalsyt).
So technically EDI is employed to kill non sythetics too.
Seeing how only a minority are synthetic, EDI is employed merely to defeat the Reapers and not synthetics.
So I don't think it is stupid to employ her to defeat some synthetics.

[CaptainZaysh]

Isichar wrote...

Yes please. I want a drawing.

[The Angry One]

Yeah Zaysh just ignore what I said and continue your false analogy.

[sheppard7]

The Angry One wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

So the Leviathans make an AI to solve the synhetic life vs organic life problem? That's like hiring an axe murderer to be the judge in a murder trial.

Actually it's more like using an unshackled AI to defeat the Reapers.

If you're referring to EDI, we're not the ones running around saying AIs are bad.
The Leviathans apparently did. Then they built their own massively powerful AI with no safety overrides.

Big. Stupid. Cuttlefish.

The initials AI are bad. Artistic Integrity initials are AI. Case proven lol

[InvincibleHero]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Yes please. I want a drawing.

 Thanks this made my day more enjoyable. People just want to ignore the fact AIs are used is because it makes sense as they bring something to the table obviously or they would never create them to begin with.

[I am Sovereign]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Yes please. I want a drawing.

At least when you insult people's intelligence you commit to it. 6/10.

[shepskisaac]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Yes please. I want a drawing.

Flawless! Right click -> *save*

[CaptainZaysh]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah Zaysh just ignore what I said and continue your false analogy.

I replied to ya!

[The Angry One]

Sure it's flawless if you completely ignore the context behind the creation and use of EDI and that of the Catalyst.

[Rhayak]

Cainne Chapel wrote...
Well with 2 that would just give people ANOTHER focus of the hate and vitriol instead of the catalyst.

Why? The plot i'm suggesting is simple and makes sense. The reason people hate Cata and Cruci is because the story about them is shaky as hell.

In Mass 3 you'd finally find out about the Leviathans, and from them (or their archives, whatever is left) maybe learn a kill-switch for the Reapers, for example.

That would be the final aid you need, on top of your acquired ability to explode stars via anti-matter, and all those handy Klendagon guns you replicated.

[Xellith]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah Zaysh just ignore what I said and continue your false analogy.

[InvincibleHero]

In simple terms AI are created because they fill a need. They are an asset to be utilized. Arrogance at failure at controlling them is a common trope. They end up problematic because of the whole they are property (organic view) vs. machine I will kill all to be free from organic threat scenario.

[Subguy614]

Actually, EDI was created as a cyberwarfare suite, and as a spy for TIM. She was never created to fight synthetics, (except in hacking battles )

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah Zaysh just ignore what I said and continue your false analogy.

I replied to ya!

Yes and you ignored what I said because you keep insisting EDI is somehow the same as the Catalyst.

Let me spell it out for you:

Cerberus - "We have no problems using AIs to solve our problems."
Shepard - "I have no problem with an AI that's proven reliable being my ally and helping to solve my problems."
Leviathans - "We disapprove of any kind of AI and do not want anyone to create AIs to solve their problems."

Now, out of these 3, it is okay for Cerberus to create AIs because they don't give a ****.
It is okay for Shepard to use AIs, especially if you have always played a Shepard sympathetic to them.
It is not okay for the Leviathans to do it, because they tell everyone else not to and think it's bad!

Let's make it even simpler.
Neither Shepard or Cerberus has seen a civilisation entirely annihilated by AIs in their lifetime.
The Leviathans have. Therefore, the Leviathans saw a civilisation destroyed by their own AIs and said "Let's do what they did to prevent others from doing what they did!". Uhuh.

Oh, and the Catalyst is unshackled because it killed it's creators. Duh. Let's look at the one thing EDI could not do while shackled. That's right, actively work against Cerberus.

[I am Sovereign]

Subguy614 wrote...

Actually, EDI was created as a cyberwarfare suite, and as a spy for TIM. She was never created to fight synthetics, (except in hacking battles )

This.

[Isichar]

Hey no need to so touchy

We are pretty similar you and I

1. We both are organic
2. We both eat food

Jeeze its like looking in a mirror

[MegaSovereign]

There can be only one Sovereign, OP.

I would challenge you but you'd just be fumbling in ignorance.

[I am Sovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah Zaysh just ignore what I said and continue your false analogy.

I replied to ya!

Yes and you ignored what I said because you keep insisting EDI is somehow the same as the Catalyst.

Let me spell it out for you:

Cerberus - "We have no problems using AIs to solve our problems."
Shepard - "I have no problem with an AI that's proven reliable being my ally and helping to solve my problems."
Leviathans - "We disapprove of any kind of AI and do not want anyone to create AIs to solve their problems."

Now, out of these 3, it is okay for Cerberus to create AIs because they don't give a ****.
It is okay for Shepard to use AIs, especially if you have always played a Shepard sympathetic to them.
It is not okay for the Leviathans to do it, because they tell everyone else not to and think it's bad!

Let's make it even simpler.
Neither Shepard or Cerberus has seen a civilisation entirely annihilated by AIs in their lifetime.
The Leviathans have. Therefore, the Leviathans saw a civilisation destroyed by their own AIs and said "Let's do what they did to prevent others from doing what they did!". Uhuh.

Oh, and the Catalyst is unshackled because it killed it's creators. Duh. Let's look at the one thing EDI could not do while shackled. That's right, actively work against Cerberus.

Hey, Zaysh would you like some aloe vera? You just got burned.

[I am disappoint]

Subguy614 wrote...

Actually, EDI was created as a cyberwarfare suite, and as a spy for TIM. She was never created to fight synthetics, (except in hacking battles )

Her previous Shackled existence is irrelevant in this discussion.

[CaptainZaysh]

Subguy614 wrote...

Actually, EDI was created as a cyberwarfare suite, and as a spy for TIM. She was never created to fight synthetics, (except in hacking battles )

That doesn't affect the fact that she is an AI which is extremely effective at defeating synthetics, thus disproving the OP's claim that it is stupid to employ an AI to defeat synthetics.