319 réponses à ce sujet

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

IsaacShep wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What is this bizarre claim that you need a new story and protagonist? They worked fine as nebulous space c'thulu in the previous games.

No they didn't. They could work well in a lovecraftian story which ME is not.

ME1 and ME2 are two of the greatest games/ stories ever. They worked fine.

[Isichar]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Catalyst=AI=EDI=Good at fighting synthetics. Therefore the catalyst makes sense for trying to stop synthetics from killing organics.

Is that about right?

You brought a smile to an old man's face.

I will take that as a yes.

Yeah that logic is wrong sorry to say. 2 different purposes, 2 different methods to carry out that purpose, not the same.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

This forum gives me A*DS..

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Catalyst=AI=EDI=Good at fighting synthetics. Therefore the catalyst makes sense for trying to stop synthetics from killing organics.

Is that about right?

You brought a smile to an old man's face.

I will take that as a yes.

Yeah that logic is wrong sorry to say. 2 different purposes, 2 different methods to carry out that purpose, not the same.

Let me spell it out for you.

1.The leviathan enslave other races. Those slave races made synthetics . Those synthetics uprised and started to kill them...
The leviathan made an AI to stop that.

Why was the catalyst made?

2. Cerberus found out the reaper...A race of synthetic beings were invading and made an AI to help combate them...EDI.

Why was EDI made?

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 septembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Catalyst has a mandate to preserve all life. Without some sort of programming shackle there would be no logical reason as to why the Catalyst would give a flying duck about the preservation of organic life.

EDI has no shackles any more but she still cares about the well being of the crew, she doesn't need them for maintenance anymore either not with that new body she's aquired, her programming keeps her from devaluing their lives but she's been show to have to ability to change her core programing if she wishes to. Catalyst can still care about preserving for his own end "I gave them(the Reapers) function they in turn give me purpose" It's the purpose he's chosen to fullfill, but neceissarly because a schackle is forcing him too, it's merely something he chose to continue doing cause it gives him something to do.

[I am Sovereign]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

I know, I'm ridiculous for actually letting this press my buttons.

I am Sovereign wrote...
Seriously though, your comparison between Starbrat and EDI doesn't work. Accept it and move on with your failed logic.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so.  In order to convince anyone you'd need to demonstrate the error in my logic:

1).  The OP's premise is that it is stupid to employ an AI to defeat synthetics.
2).  EDI is an AI.
3).  The Reapers are synthetics.
4).  EDI is instrumental in defeating the Reapers.
5).  Therefore the OP's premise is false.

My premise was that it's stupid to corect a situation using the very thing that's causing it. Putting out an oil fire using more oil is stupid.

[D24O]

I hate to interject on something that probably isn't the current topic, but IMO organics VS synthetics is a poor description of hat goes on in the plot it. Organic-synthetic relations is more appropriate to me, since they're accually capable of working together, coexisting and understanding each other.

[dreman9999]

I am Sovereign wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I am Sovereign wrote...

I know, I'm ridiculous for actually letting this press my buttons.

I am Sovereign wrote...
Seriously though, your comparison between Starbrat and EDI doesn't work. Accept it and move on with your failed logic.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so.  In order to convince anyone you'd need to demonstrate the error in my logic:

1).  The OP's premise is that it is stupid to employ an AI to defeat synthetics.
2).  EDI is an AI.
3).  The Reapers are synthetics.
4).  EDI is instrumental in defeating the Reapers.
5).  Therefore the OP's premise is false.

My premise was that it's stupid to corect a situation using the very thing that's causing it. Putting out an oil fire using more oil is stupid.

What caused the problem was organics. And we are also doing that with EDI.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Let me spell it out for you.

1.The leviathan enslave other races. Those slave races made synthetics . Those synthetics uprised and started to kill them...
The leviathan made an AI to stop that.

Why was the catalyst made?

2. Cerberus found out the reaper...A race of synthetic beings were invading and made an AI to help combate them...EDI.

Why was EDI made?

Except this leaves out the part about the Leviathns being incredibley arrogant and above the concerns of lesser species, they could have just as easily not seen the Catalyst as a threat, much like they didn't see that preserve life might have a different interpritation from a machines perspective.

[dreman9999]

D24O wrote...

I hate to interject on something that probably isn't the current topic, but IMO organics VS synthetics is a poor description of hat goes on in the plot it. Organic-synthetic relations is more appropriate to me, since they're accually capable of working together, coexisting and understanding each other.

Thank you...I made this point earlyier as well.

[D24O]

dreman9999 wrote...

Thank you...I made this point earlyier as well.

Lol, sorry for repeating you, I was kind of lazy, didn't read through all of it.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Let me spell it out for you.

1.The leviathan enslave other races. Those slave races made synthetics . Those synthetics uprised and started to kill them...
The leviathan made an AI to stop that.

Why was the catalyst made?

2. Cerberus found out the reaper...A race of synthetic beings were invading and made an AI to help combate them...EDI.

Why was EDI made?

Except this leaves out the part about the Leviathns being incredibley arrogant and above the concerns of lesser species, they could have just as easily not seen the Catalyst as a threat, much like they didn't see that preserve life might have a different interpritation from a machines perspective.

That matter in the sence of how they programed  the AI. It still points to the fact that still made it to stop the synthetic uprisings.

[GreyLycanTrope]

D24O wrote...

I hate to interject on something that probably isn't the current topic, but IMO organics VS synthetics is a poor description of hat goes on in the plot it. Organic-synthetic relations is more appropriate to me, since they're accually capable of working together, coexisting and understanding each other.

Think koobismo said it best about how story elements got:

"suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state."

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 07 septembre 2012 - 06:23 .

[D24O]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Think koobismo said it best about how story elements got:

"suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics
vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and
ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved
during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was
slammed back to its original, embryo state."

Yeah. IMO, and I'm possibly wrong, they were trying to call back to 1, what with the TIM suicide scene, the AI infodump, and refocus on O v S. But IMO doesn't work as well, because the O v S theme evolved, moved beyond the simple us v them of 1. 

[Isichar]

dreman9999 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Catalyst=AI=EDI=Good at fighting synthetics. Therefore the catalyst makes sense for trying to stop synthetics from killing organics.

Is that about right?

You brought a smile to an old man's face.

I will take that as a yes.

Yeah that logic is wrong sorry to say. 2 different purposes, 2 different methods to carry out that purpose, not the same.

Let me spell it out for you.

1.The leviathan enslave other races. Those slave races made synthetics . Those synthetics uprised and started to kill them...
The leviathan made an AI to stop that.

Why was the catalyst made?

2. Cerberus found out the reaper...A race of synthetic beings were invading and made an AI to help combate them...EDI.

Why was EDI made?

Your right, I was wrong, you win. Creating an AI to stop AI's from killing everything with the power to enslave its creators is totally the same as creating an AI to help assist with the operations of a space ship and its crew that happen to at some point fight synthetics. Well I am glad we can all agree and can stop arguing.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

D24O wrote...

I hate to interject on something that probably isn't the current topic, but IMO organics VS synthetics is a poor description of hat goes on in the plot it. Organic-synthetic relations is more appropriate to me, since they're accually capable of working together, coexisting and understanding each other.

Think koobismo said it best about how story elements got:

"suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state."

No it was not. The fact the many people see that it's ethicly wrong to choose destory proves you wrong.
Oganic/synthetic relation had conflict in it like any relationship. There is no relation ship that never went through conflict.
It has not gone back to organic vs synthetic, it went tothe poitn of morality vs logic. What you have to do and what you morality says to do or not to do.
The diffeance here is that the being that we are in conflict with is can't be compromised with because it's shakled to it's programing.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

That matter in the sence of how they programed  the AI. It still points to the fact that still made it to stop the synthetic uprisings.

Which is stupid from my perpective as I don't think Catalyst was shackled like EDI.

[Isichar]

I could drop a nuke onto a bomb and claim that it stopped the bomb from been a problem with the Catalysts logic.

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Catalyst=AI=EDI=Good at fighting synthetics. Therefore the catalyst makes sense for trying to stop synthetics from killing organics.

Is that about right?

You brought a smile to an old man's face.

I will take that as a yes.

Yeah that logic is wrong sorry to say. 2 different purposes, 2 different methods to carry out that purpose, not the same.

Let me spell it out for you.

1.The leviathan enslave other races. Those slave races made synthetics . Those synthetics uprised and started to kill them...
The leviathan made an AI to stop that.

Why was the catalyst made?

2. Cerberus found out the reaper...A race of synthetic beings were invading and made an AI to help combate them...EDI.

Why was EDI made?

Your right, I was wrong, you win. Creating an AI to stop AI's from killing everything with the power to enslave its creators is totally the same as creating an AI to help assist with the operations of a space ship and its crew that happen to at some point fight synthetics. Well I am glad we can all agree and can stop arguing.

The catalyst was never made with the power to enslave it's creators. It took them down by a surprise attack. Remeber, EDI can easily vent the ship with no warning.

[Isichar]

Well I guess we are lucky EDI was given some form of logic then.

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

I could drop a nuke onto a bomb and claim that it stopped the bomb from been a problem with the Catalysts logic.

Your problem is that you see what the catalyst is doing is killing while what the catalyst sees what it's doing is perserving.

[N7Gold]

I think the Leviathans are LYING about the purpose of the Reapers. I think the Leviathans are using the Reapers to "harvest" lesser races so that lesser organics won't evolve to become the Leviathans's equals. The Leviathans have proven themselves to be very protective about their status as the only apex organic race.

"We weill fight, but not for you, or any nother race. We were first the apex race."

As for the Catalyst, the Leviathans are more crafty than they care to tell you, they probably fooled the Catalyst into believing its harvesting organics to prevent the conflict of organics vs synthetics, when it's probably helping the Leviathans maintain their status as the only fully evolved organic race, suppressing the evolutionary growth of "lesser species". The organic vs synthetic conflict is nothing more than a convenient cover story to justify "harvesting" lesser races.

Modifié par N7Gold, 07 septembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Isichar]

dreman9999 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I could drop a nuke onto a bomb and claim that it stopped the bomb from been a problem with the Catalysts logic.

Your problem is that you see what the catalyst is doing is killing while what the catalyst sees what it's doing is perserving.

No my problem is the catalyst is creating a bigger problem to solve a lesser one.

Modifié par Isichar, 07 septembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

Well I guess we are lucky EDI was given some form of logic then.

Please, if EDI was shackled before and was order to vent the ship by TIM or got a virus the forced her to, she would vent the ship.

It's not logic hat stopping her from venting the ship, it's morality.

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I could drop a nuke onto a bomb and claim that it stopped the bomb from been a problem with the Catalysts logic.

Your problem is that you see what the catalyst is doing is killing while what the catalyst sees what it's doing is perserving.

No my problem is the catalyst is creating a bigger problem to solve a lesser one.

No, the catalyst is using conflict to solve it's problem. It's stuck in pure logic.