Do you want to end the Mage/Templar war in the next Dragon Age?
Another possibility is having the war as an environmental feature that sets the conditions of the story and gameplay that has a different focus of goals than the war itself, a different "win" than the war this time.
I'm sure there are other possibilities where the war is not the winning condition of the next Dragon Age, but that's not really the question. That's just proposing possible reasons that the war might not end in the next Dragon Age while the game still has its own satisfying ending.
The question is: Would you be okay with that in the next Dragon Age? Would you want that in the next Dragon Age if you would be okay with it?
If the war is part of the next Dragon Age, do you want to resolve it all in the next game?
Débuté par
EricHVela
, sept. 07 2012 03:32
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#2
Posté 07 septembre 2012 - 05:02
Spedfrom
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A Blight was started and we ended it all in one game, beautifully and engagingly so. So why would it not be possible for the war between the mages and the (stinking) templars?
#3
Posté 07 septembre 2012 - 06:15
Renmiri1
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There is also a civil war in Orlais
#4
Posté 07 septembre 2012 - 07:06
Dragoonlordz
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I'm guessing Mage/Templar war will be main primary plot focus of the next title but will include sub plot of Qunari invasion building up some more for the next game. The following game aka like DA4 I think will be Qunari invasion main plot with additional sub plots.
Remember there is still only 100 years in the dragon age. It would seem bit silly to me to put two major wars in one title leaving nothing major for the next that I can think of right now. To be honest I'm just guessing but to me I think Mage/Templar war will be handled before Qunari invasion and that they will be in separate titles/games. They might do it the other way around or do it both in single game but if do both I have no idea what they would use for DA4.
Remember there is still only 100 years in the dragon age. It would seem bit silly to me to put two major wars in one title leaving nothing major for the next that I can think of right now. To be honest I'm just guessing but to me I think Mage/Templar war will be handled before Qunari invasion and that they will be in separate titles/games. They might do it the other way around or do it both in single game but if do both I have no idea what they would use for DA4.
Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 septembre 2012 - 07:08 .
#5
Posté 07 septembre 2012 - 11:33
The Six Path of Pain
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I agree with spedfrom,Origins ended a blight in one game and still made it epic...It would be straight bulls#%t if we didn't 't finish this lame war in the next game.But honestly I could care less for the Mage-Templar war,if the options available to screw over both sides I'm so doing it >
.But I do want them to wrap it up so we can move on to something bigger and better......(Qunari Invasion 
)
.But I do want them to wrap it up so we can move on to something bigger and better......(Qunari Invasion )
#6
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 01:43
Xilizhra
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No. I want this war to be resolved in the next game.
#7
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 03:05
Arthur Cousland
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I'd like to see the mage vs. templar scenario to resolve itself in the next game and move onto something different for the next installment.
They've already done mages vs templars in both games so far; no need to beat it to death and make the whole franchise about mages and templars.
If the current war isn't resolved by the end of DA3, then I'd welcome a Qunari invasion, just to see something new.
They've already done mages vs templars in both games so far; no need to beat it to death and make the whole franchise about mages and templars.
If the current war isn't resolved by the end of DA3, then I'd welcome a Qunari invasion, just to see something new.
Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 08 septembre 2012 - 03:05 .
#8
Posté 12 septembre 2012 - 12:04
Garrus94
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I know I will not get to do it but my perfect scenario would be as follows.
In DA3 I want to be a Tevinter Blood mage. I would proceed to side with the mages and bring the chantry down. Me and a few of my mage friends would also at some point fight Flemeth and kill her. DA4 would open with the same PC and would have me fight the Qunari. Finally in DA5, still with the same PC, I will become the Archon and near the end invade the Black City. Once there Flemeth will reappear as the maker and we will proceed to have a epic showdown, resulting in me becoming the most powerful god like mage in Thedas.
In DA3 I want to be a Tevinter Blood mage. I would proceed to side with the mages and bring the chantry down. Me and a few of my mage friends would also at some point fight Flemeth and kill her. DA4 would open with the same PC and would have me fight the Qunari. Finally in DA5, still with the same PC, I will become the Archon and near the end invade the Black City. Once there Flemeth will reappear as the maker and we will proceed to have a epic showdown, resulting in me becoming the most powerful god like mage in Thedas.
Modifié par Garrus94, 12 septembre 2012 - 12:06 .
#9
Posté 13 septembre 2012 - 01:49
Lurklen
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Well I'm hoping it isn't the main focus, that it's just another thing causing the world to go to hell in a hand-basket. So I'd be fine with the war not ending by the end of the game so long as the story and character arcs are resolved.
Besides I'm not sure how you could really end it without one side or the other winning, and I don't think the writers want that, they like the drama of the Templar/Mage dynamic too much. Unless you end up with a stalemate that sort of returns things to the status quo, like in the Tevinter vs everyone conflict. Some mages in some places have their freedom, other places the Templars still have control, neither are happy but they're no longer at outright war.
More interesting to me is the conflict between the Templars and the Chantry/Divine. I'm curious how what is essentially the military arm of the faith operates on it's own and how it justifies it's actions as a whole without the leadership of the Divine. Are all the Templars and their commanders on board, what do the people of the Andrastian(Andrastic?) nations think of the holy order of Templars defying the Divine of Andraste?
Besides I'm not sure how you could really end it without one side or the other winning, and I don't think the writers want that, they like the drama of the Templar/Mage dynamic too much. Unless you end up with a stalemate that sort of returns things to the status quo, like in the Tevinter vs everyone conflict. Some mages in some places have their freedom, other places the Templars still have control, neither are happy but they're no longer at outright war.
More interesting to me is the conflict between the Templars and the Chantry/Divine. I'm curious how what is essentially the military arm of the faith operates on it's own and how it justifies it's actions as a whole without the leadership of the Divine. Are all the Templars and their commanders on board, what do the people of the Andrastian(Andrastic?) nations think of the holy order of Templars defying the Divine of Andraste?
#10
Posté 14 septembre 2012 - 04:48
CELL55
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Resolution is something that I feel was definitely lacking in DA2, so I would certainly like to see a resolution to the game's main conflict. This does not mean I want to defeat the evil empire and make everything rainbows and starshine until the end of time forever; it means that the main conflict must reach a natural and fulfilling conclusion.
Ex: DAO: You stop the Blight and your character's story reaches a conclusion, but the Qunari remain fundamentalist jerks, the new ruler has a long road to restoring Fereldan, and mages remain oppressed.
Plenty of plot threads to pick up on for future games, but the main thread for this game has ended, at least for the time (There are still more Archdemons out there sleeping!).
Ex: DAO: You stop the Blight and your character's story reaches a conclusion, but the Qunari remain fundamentalist jerks, the new ruler has a long road to restoring Fereldan, and mages remain oppressed.
Plenty of plot threads to pick up on for future games, but the main thread for this game has ended, at least for the time (There are still more Archdemons out there sleeping!).
Modifié par CELL55, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .
#11
Posté 14 septembre 2012 - 04:54
Plaintiff
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I guess I don't mind either way. I doubt that the debate will ever truly end, even if the "war" is resolved.
Comparing the Mage/Templar war with the Blight is just straight up nonsense. Wars, real wars, don't end just because you killed the general.
Comparing the Mage/Templar war with the Blight is just straight up nonsense. Wars, real wars, don't end just because you killed the general.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .
#12
Posté 19 septembre 2012 - 04:29
haroldhardluck
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In DAO Bioware showed a situation where the mages and templars got along fairly well. In DA2 Bioware showed a situation where the mages and templar do not get along at all. The theme is the Circle system once worked but no longer works. So DA3 should resolve the conflict with a new system that replaces the Circle or at least a renewal of the spirit of cooperation and respect shown in DAO that made the system work originally. That makes for a trilogy that neatly wraps up the mage/templar story arc.
The subtitle of DA3 hints this is the case. The Orleasian civil war would appear to be a side show or just background for DA3. Or it could even be over when the game starts. The Qunari war, like the situation in Tevinter, appear to be an ongoing background story for the DA universe. Like Flemeth, who is an ongoing NPC, they will appear in minor roles but nothing about them will be resolved. So I expect Flemeth to make an appearance and leave. I expect Tevinter slavers to make an appearance so your character can kill them. I expect Qunari and Tal-Vasoths to make an appearance so your character can kill them. But by the end of the game, the Tevinter and Qunari situations will remain the same.
Harold
The subtitle of DA3 hints this is the case. The Orleasian civil war would appear to be a side show or just background for DA3. Or it could even be over when the game starts. The Qunari war, like the situation in Tevinter, appear to be an ongoing background story for the DA universe. Like Flemeth, who is an ongoing NPC, they will appear in minor roles but nothing about them will be resolved. So I expect Flemeth to make an appearance and leave. I expect Tevinter slavers to make an appearance so your character can kill them. I expect Qunari and Tal-Vasoths to make an appearance so your character can kill them. But by the end of the game, the Tevinter and Qunari situations will remain the same.
Harold
#13
Posté 19 septembre 2012 - 06:24
LobselVith8
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Mages have been oppressed for nearly a millennia under the Chantry controlled Circles, and there have been rebellions opposing the system for centuries. I'd like to see the new protagonist have the power to help the free mages topple the rebel templars, and fight to maintain mage autonomy. I'm not interested in seeing the protagonist capitulate to the templars, if the player wants to side with the mages; I think our choice should matter.
There's a lot I dislike about what the developers have planned for Dragon Age III. Having the ability to defeat the templars might convince me to purchase the next game; pushing the reset button on he conflict is an easy way to get me to avoid it.
There's a lot I dislike about what the developers have planned for Dragon Age III. Having the ability to defeat the templars might convince me to purchase the next game; pushing the reset button on he conflict is an easy way to get me to avoid it.
#14
Posté 19 septembre 2012 - 09:56
babymoon
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I feel like the Mage/Templar thing has been going on for so long and is so incredibly important to Dragon Age, I really do want to see it built up really nicely. Make us feel that tension even moreso than we did in DA2. If they can do that, plus tie it up in one game, I'd be fine with that.
#15
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 04:17
haroldhardluck
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I see no evidence that the mage/templar conflict has been going on for a long time. In DAO the relationship between the mages and the templars are quite good. Blood magic and demonic possession are real problems with mages and the templars have a valid purpose. If you play the mage origin in DAO you see a tower where mages are trained and treated well. But the sequence with Jowan and the return to the tower shows the constant need for templar policing.
What DA2 shows is that outside of Ferelden, the system is breaking down. The templars in Kirkwall shows what happens when the templars become corrupt. Ander's experience and the aftermath of the end, shows that the good relations in Ferelden is now the exception rather than the rule. Tevinter shows the result of a Circle controlled by the mage, so that solution is not a good one. However the time frame for this breakdown is never quite given. It could be happening for hundreds of years or only in the last few years. Also, even in Kirkwall we have Cullen who is still a good templar who is trying to do the right thing.
I suspect DA3 will take place in Orlais with the civil war for the background. The goal is to resolve the mage/templar breakdown and come up with a new system of policing mages that is less tyrannical. I also suspect that the PC will be someone who has become a refugee as a result of the civil war. The PC could be an escaped mage, a templar who has broken with the order, a fighter whose lord has been killed in the civil war, a city elf fleeing the sacking of his city, etc. However I do not think there will be multiple origins. The PC will start out at the same place regardless of their origins. This is the 3rd game in the series. By now there should be no need for origin stories. Besides we now have character such as Varric whose origins do not match any of the standard origins in DAO.
Harold
What DA2 shows is that outside of Ferelden, the system is breaking down. The templars in Kirkwall shows what happens when the templars become corrupt. Ander's experience and the aftermath of the end, shows that the good relations in Ferelden is now the exception rather than the rule. Tevinter shows the result of a Circle controlled by the mage, so that solution is not a good one. However the time frame for this breakdown is never quite given. It could be happening for hundreds of years or only in the last few years. Also, even in Kirkwall we have Cullen who is still a good templar who is trying to do the right thing.
I suspect DA3 will take place in Orlais with the civil war for the background. The goal is to resolve the mage/templar breakdown and come up with a new system of policing mages that is less tyrannical. I also suspect that the PC will be someone who has become a refugee as a result of the civil war. The PC could be an escaped mage, a templar who has broken with the order, a fighter whose lord has been killed in the civil war, a city elf fleeing the sacking of his city, etc. However I do not think there will be multiple origins. The PC will start out at the same place regardless of their origins. This is the 3rd game in the series. By now there should be no need for origin stories. Besides we now have character such as Varric whose origins do not match any of the standard origins in DAO.
Harold
#16
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 12:20
LobselVith8
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haroldhardluck wrote...
I see no evidence that the mage/templar conflict has been going on for a long time. In DAO the relationship between the mages and the templars are quite good.
The codex entries about mages resisting the Chantry controlled Circles, including Aldenon the Wise's rebellion, address that the conflict has been going on for centuries. I wouldn't consider the relationship good; Cullen notes that some templars talk with glee about killing mages. It isn't an idyllic situation. And there was a rebellion in the Circle of Ferelden because there were mages who wanted to be free of the templars; even Irving is ecstatic about the Magi Boon during the royal ceremony.
haroldhardluck wrote...
Blood magic and demonic possession are real problems with mages and the templars have a valid purpose.
Having no freedom or basic rights is also a problem for mages. I'm guessing that's why the Hero of Ferelden can ask for the Circle of Ferelden to be given its freedom, and the ruler can agree, saying mages have earned the right to govern themselves.
haroldhardluck wrote...
If you play the mage origin in DAO you see a tower where mages are trained and treated well. But the sequence with Jowan and the return to the tower shows the constant need for templar policing.
The existance of the tranquil and the mage rebellion suggest that it's not an idyllic situation. The Warden can also address to Wynne that the Circle is a "prison" and an "oppressive place," and she never contests this; in fact, Wynne says that The Warden can change that (being an "oppressive place") with time, if he takes a leadership position there, going as far as saying it's her dream.
#17
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 08:13
haroldhardluck
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There is no question that mages are assumed to be guilty of blood magic and demonic possession by the templars by default. OTOH it is a fully justified default given all the blood mages and possessed mages encountered in both games. As a result the relationship between mages and templars will be naturally strained with conflicts arising from mage rebellions and templar excesses. However as the Ferelden Circle showed, when the head mage and the head templar respect each other, the relationship can be civil.
The key point is the Circles have been around for 1000 years and it is only now that we have wide spread rebellion of all the Circles. It is not surprising that individual rebellions have happened in the past. However the Circle system has held together for a 1000 years despite the occassional rebellion. As a mage in DAO you learn that the mages are themselves divided about the Circle system. It is only now in the time of the DA2 that all the mages have decided that enough is enough. Which means that for 1000 years, most mages accepted the Circle system as a necessary evil.
Maybe Bioware will include codices in DA3 that detail exactly when the mages began to turn against the Circle system. I have no doubt that DA3 will be about the mage rebellion and what will replace the Circle system. Somethng will replace the Circles or else all of Thedas will become like Tevinter, a mage tyranny.
Harold
The key point is the Circles have been around for 1000 years and it is only now that we have wide spread rebellion of all the Circles. It is not surprising that individual rebellions have happened in the past. However the Circle system has held together for a 1000 years despite the occassional rebellion. As a mage in DAO you learn that the mages are themselves divided about the Circle system. It is only now in the time of the DA2 that all the mages have decided that enough is enough. Which means that for 1000 years, most mages accepted the Circle system as a necessary evil.
Maybe Bioware will include codices in DA3 that detail exactly when the mages began to turn against the Circle system. I have no doubt that DA3 will be about the mage rebellion and what will replace the Circle system. Somethng will replace the Circles or else all of Thedas will become like Tevinter, a mage tyranny.
Harold
