292 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

Pitznik wrote...

The only thing common to all endings is the fact that Reapers are defeated. You take this one similarity, forcibly add another one and you think it is now canon?

I see you're still juming the gun even when I said there's some cannon in the ME3 endings.  You shouldn't forget about how Shepard dies in one form in another in all of the endings.

Pitznik wrote... 

Your logic here: Shepard always dying creates canon, so Shepard living in HEMSD is an easter egg, because it would be against canon. Shepard dying is a proof that canon exists, and canon is a proof that Shepard surviving is an easter egg. Circular logic.

Yet this isn't the case.  You can't avoid whats is or isn't canon and most easter eggs in Shepard living isn't cannon.  Another video game example of an easter egg would be the Mega Man suit in Dead Rising, Red vs Blue in the Halo series, playing as Tofu man in Resdent Evil 2, or the WoW reference in X-Men Origins: Wolverine other then the UFO/Dog endings for the Silent Hill series.

Pitznik wrote... 

The truth is that Shepard either dies, lives or becomes an AI. No canon, no similar fate in all endings, each one is different. The fact that other choices don't have the option for Shepard being organically alive is proof only for the statement that different endings are different, nothing else. You could argue in a similar way that Destroy being the only ending with no Reapers is against canon, so destruction of Reapers in destroy is an easter egg. I hope you can see now how ridiculous this is.

Shepard dieing and the Reapers beng defeated in each of the endings are actually canon whether you agree or disagree.  Destroy could be canon just as much as Control or Synthesis because all 3 of them are themes throughout the ME series.  You can also say that Shepard's goal is to defeat the Reapers at any cost in any way.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 07 septembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[Pitznik]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet this isn't the case.  You can't avoid whats is or isn't canon and most easter eggs in Shepard living isn't cannon.  Another video game example of an easter egg would be the Mega Man suit in Dead Rising, Red vs Blue in the Halo series, playing as Tofu man in Resdent Evil 2, or the WoW reference in X-Men Origins: Wolverine other then the UFO/Dog endings for the Silent Hill series.

Of course I can when facing the fact Shepard does live in one of the ending. Easter egg is either some hidden joke, or hidden message, or small cameo, which is author winking at you. Shepard surviving is part of the narrative, vital information passed to you by the authors by the usual means. "But he dies in every other ending" isn't an arguement - endings are supposed to be different in important ways, that is the whole point.

Shepard dieing and the Reapers beng defeated in each of the endings are actually canon whether you agree or disagree.  Destroy could be canon just as much as Control or Synthesis because all 3 of them are themes throughout the ME series.  You can also say that Shepard's goal is to defeat the Reapers at any cost in any way.

My agreement or disagreement doesn't change the fact that in one ending Shepard lives - it happens, whether I like it or not. So it can't be canon. Let me repeat - your idea of existing canon is based on ONE thing, and you want to make a rule out of it, letting you arbitrarily dismiss perfectly normal scene as easter egg? It doesn't work like that, sorry.

[Blueprotoss]

Pitznik wrote...

Of course I can when facing the fact Shepard does live in one of the ending. Easter egg is either some hidden joke, or hidden message, or small cameo, which is author winking at you. Shepard surviving is part of the narrative, vital information passed to you by the authors by the usual means. "But he dies in every other ending" isn't an arguement - endings are supposed to be different in important ways, that is the whole point.

Actually Shepard dies in every ending whether its only the physical body in every Control ending or the "death" shown in the high EMS Destroy ending before the breathing scene.  The "perfect" endings in RGPs are usually easter eggs as well since you need to meet the certain criteria if extras to abtain it like a lot of EMS points to get the breating scene that used to be attached to each of the 3 choices before the EC.

Pitznik wrote... 

My agreement or disagreement doesn't change the fact that in one ending Shepard lives - it happens, whether I like it or not. So it can't be canon. Let me repeat - your idea of existing canon is based on ONE thing, and you want to make a rule out of it, letting you arbitrarily dismiss perfectly normal scene as easter egg? It doesn't work like that, sorry.

Yet Shepard dieing and the Reapers beng defeated in each of the endings shows us that there is some canon estabished in the endings.  This isn't anything new to game that share multiple endings because there has to be some canon to tie the endings together so one ending can be established as the canon ending, which you can use the old school Resident Evil as examples.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 08 septembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[christrek1982]

I ask the same questions and I have come up with who possible answers

1 they wanted to leave it open as not all fans wanted weddings and little blue kid. If that is the case then I see no reason why the team didn't show sephard in the hospital or do something along the lines of what "iakus" suggested.

2 the writeing team whoever just wanted Shepard dead and done with again I don't understand why and I don't understand why the team didn't have both live and dead shepards as options.

[christrek1982]

Jamie9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
I don't believe you

Now, that's not fair. The mods here are much more generous than they need to be. Almost half the threads posted in this sub-section of the forum aren't anything directly to do with the story. They're about EA, or MP, or Dinosaurs.

And do the mods close some of these threads? Yes. But I've seen many threads reach 10+ pages, and I don't think that's because the mods aren't watching. As long as it's civil conversation, it's left open.

We should be thankful for our mods.

fair play thank you 

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Speculation. Shep is alive. Go into the Mass Effect 3 game folder, into BIOgame and into movies, and try to find something that says shep_male_alive.bik or something.

If closure was given, then we wouldn't be speculating, and this forum section would be dead.

[PrimeOfValor]

They didn't want cookie cutter reunions.

[webhead921]

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

[Blueprotoss]

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 08 septembre 2012 - 01:58 .

[Iakus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Then keep it neutral and make it an Alliance rescue team.

They had one in ME1, why not ME3?

[Icinix]

Its strange because ME3 Shepard really stopped being the players Shepard from ME1 and ME2 - the character really became BioWares Shepard....but after the ending - Shepards closure is left to player determination.

Makes no damn sense.

[webhead921]

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Then keep it neutral and make it an Alliance rescue team.

They had one in ME1, why not ME3?

That could have been perfect.  Keep the breath scene, show shepard's arm reaching up and an alliance marine reaching down to grab it.  Heck, it could even have been vega or coats.  It would be a minor change that would probably make many people feel much better about the breath scene.  

[Iakus]

webhead921 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Then keep it neutral and make it an Alliance rescue team.

They had one in ME1, why not ME3?

That could have been perfect.  Keep the breath scene, show shepard's arm reaching up and an alliance marine reaching down to grab it.  Heck, it could even have been vega or coats.  It would be a minor change that would probably make many people feel much better about the breath scene.  

Yeah, if the whole point is to show that Shepard lives, a sign that Shepard gets rescue goes a lot farther than one breath with no context behind it.

Especially since the last words before the breath are of Hackett talking about honoring th esacrifice of those who died defeating the Reapers...

[webhead921]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think that shepard lives in the ending that we have (if you have high enough EMS). However, I think Bioware could have had a happy medium between open-endedness and hope. They could show shepard being found. This would quiet those who complained that shepard probably died, or that it was her last breath, or she bled out shortly after. But it is still open to interpretation. Where was shepard found? What are the extent of her injuries? At least it will definitely tell everyone that shepard lived.

[christrek1982]

all very good points that will do nothing more that make one of the ending better but unforgettably we will never see this come true and we will be very luck to get an answer to the question of why?

[wright1978]

christrek1982 wrote...

I ask the same questions and I have come up with who possible answers

1 they wanted to leave it open as not all fans wanted weddings and little blue kid. If that is the case then I see no reason why the team didn't show sephard in the hospital or do something along the lines of what "iakus" suggested.

2 the writeing team whoever just wanted Shepard dead and done with again I don't understand why and I don't understand why the team didn't have both live and dead shepards as options.

Yep i completely understand why they didn't want to introduce a re-union sequence but there should have been exposition/integration of Shep lives into epilogue with something like a hospital scene.

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Then keep it neutral and make it an Alliance rescue team.

They had one in ME1, why not ME3?

Yep random medics wouldbe fine by me.

[Pitznik]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Actually Shepard dies in every ending whether its only the physical body in every Control ending or the "death" shown in the high EMS Destroy ending before the breathing scene.  The "perfect" endings in RGPs are usually easter eggs as well since you need to meet the certain criteria if extras to abtain it like a lot of EMS points to get the breating scene that used to be attached to each of the 3 choices before the EC.

Ok, you simply don't know what an easter egg is.

Yet Shepard dieing and the Reapers beng defeated in each of the endings shows us that there is some canon estabished in the endings.  This isn't anything new to game that share multiple endings because there has to be some canon to tie the endings together so one ending can be established as the canon ending, which you can use the old school Resident Evil as examples.

There is no need whatsoever to tie the endings together, each one can be different, just like in ME3. Shepard doesn't die in HEMSD, there is no canon. You can't use circular logic to prove it - or, you can, if you wish to look stupid.

[Bfler]

The funny thing is, at the end with the Stargazer scene, they reduce everything to some kind of bedtime story, which is told by an old man to his grandchild. I doubt that a grandfather would end such a story with the main hero below a pile of rubble.

[JBPBRC]

Bfler wrote...

The funny thing is, at the end with the Stargazer scene, they reduce everything to some kind of bedtime story, which is told by an old man to his grandchild. I doubt that a grandfather would end such a story with the main hero below a pile of rubble.

"Grandpa, what happened to The Shepard? TELL ME!!!"

"Sure thing my sweet. Did you remember to bring your allowance? I might need it."

:wizard:

[The Twilight God]

Stornskar wrote...

If there was closure with the Destroy ending - e.g. a reunion with the LI, drinks with Garrus, etc - then nobody would choose the other endings.

Then the other endings shouldn't have been included if they can't stand on their own.

They'd be better off with 1 great endings vs 4 mediocre endings.

[LiarasShield]

Just why you give closure to all the other endings where shepard dies

But the one ending where shepard lives and you can't show more of shepard being alive or have a team digging shepard out of the rubble or at least have the normandy be called so that they can pick up him or her

Is this really unreasonable for those of us who came to care about shepard for 5 years?

I mean unless me3 is not truely the end to his or her story why so little closure for the high ems destroy ending?

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

They could have had a similar breath scene, with shepard reaching up and grabbing her/his LI's hand as she/he is pulled out of the rubble. It could have been a very quick scene, and the could have avoided showing shepard's face. This would at least end this debate of whether shepard lives.

This sounds interesting but a snowball affect would have occured and some small uproar would have followed.

Then keep it neutral and make it an Alliance rescue team.

They had one in ME1, why not ME3?

Sword fleet and most of the Alliance left the Sol system.

Make the search team be whats left of Hammer squad. Or Major Coates since we know he is still alive and on Earth.

[darkway1]

Speculation,speculation and more speculation........why can't Bioware just step forward and address the issue with a simple answer.......Shepard's dead or Shepard's alive and put an end to all the needless rants with in the community.

[LiarasShield]

darkway1 wrote...

Speculation,speculation and more speculation........why can't Bioware just step forward and address the issue with a simple answer.......Shepard's dead or Shepard's alive and put an end to all the needless rants with in the community.

Just why not show just a tiny bit more so we don't have to keep killing each other over speculation?