Incendiary AMMO (confirmed BUG) mechanics (+ corrections)
#26
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 07:56
@the OP, does warp behave strangely with other DOT sources, like say, multiple casts of incinerate or submission net?
#27
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 07:58
Incendiary ammo + warp * times shot with any gun = Warp Dmg or Incendiary over time applications multiplies its damage by the amount of shots the target gets.
Dang. PPR + incendiary + warp = everything burns.
Modifié par Ziegrif, 08 septembre 2012 - 08:01 .
#28
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 07:59
That said...
All I know is that with This Human Sentinel/Claymore + Scorpion build, using Incendiary I rounds on Gold vs Geth, I can Warp then 1 shot kill everything but a Prime from 25 feet. Sometimes I slightly miss which requires a 2nd shot but if I'm on the money, it's dead.
#29
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:00
#30
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:02
#31
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:02
That is better. ThxAsebstos wrote...
Here, I'll explain with some of his numbers
This is the data for hitting a target with warp and then shooting it 3 times with a Paladin using Incendiary ammo. I've cleaned it up by removing the target's hp, only leaving how much damage is being done.632.8125 <---- this is the initial hit from Warp on the target. It is normal.
12.128906 <---- this is the DOT damage from Warp. It is normal.
12.128906
12.128906
12.128906
12.128906
805.484375 <---- this is the 1st shot from the Paladin. The number matches what it should be.
208.807617 <---- this is the DOT after the 1st shot
208.807617
805.484375 <---- this is the 2nd shot. It is normal.
308.623047 <---- this is the DOT after the 2nd shot. It is getting crazy high.
805.484863 <--- this is the 3rd shot, it is normal.
426.081055<---- this is the DOT after the 3rd shot, it is insane!
426.081055
426.081055
426.081055
426.081055
426.081055
After the 3rd shot the DOT does 6 ticks at around 426 damage.... for over 2556 points of damage from DOT! That's 3x more damage than the initial hit.
#32
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:03
#33
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:03
The list of tests is this:
With armour piercing ammo:
Hit armour with paladin, damage is as expected.
Hit with warp:
On hit damage is fine
Warp applies expose (the 15% damage boost) on hit, and boosts damage over time by 15%.
Warp followed by warp:
Armour debuffing by pierce applies to second warp on hit, but not to its DoT.
Paladin shot on armour debuffed target:
Weapon damage ok, armour debuff does not apply to ammo power.
Warp, followed by warp, followed by paladin shot:
Ammo damage remains unboosted.
Damage over time per tick unchanged
With Incendiary Ammo III.
Single shot does expected on hit and damage over time.
Two paladin shots:
Quadruple damage over time per tick, i.e. double damage over time per shot, but applies to all subsequent DoT.
Three Paladin shots:
Significantly more damage over time (about 6 times the damage for a single shot, still about two times damage per shot, but applies for all subsequent damage over time)
Warp with paladin shot:
Warp is fine, on hit paladin damage is fine with expose etc.
Damage over time for incendiary is about 9 times what it would be for single shot.
Warp with 3 paladin shots.
Does about 3 times more DoT than the 3 shots without warp.
#34
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:07
Asebstos wrote...
@the OP, does warp behave strangely with other DOT sources, like say, multiple casts of incinerate or submission net?
Will test eventually ... Its not warp ...Warp dot ticks apply normaly even with multiple casts ... 1 warp 20 ticks .2 warps 40 ticks ...
Incendiary ammo is the culprit ... It cancels out Warp or incediary DOT effect ... Instead it massively pumps out its own 6 damage ticks ... Will soon post some reegar tests .. With and without warp ...
Modifié par peddroelmz, 13 février 2013 - 12:50 .
#35
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:07
Ah nevermind, I think that's answered.
Modifié par Eriseley, 08 septembre 2012 - 08:08 .
#36
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:07
But does it stack additively or multiplicatively?Ronnie Blastoff wrote...
....The DoT from incendiary ammo was always bugged...It also stacks ontop of itself. (can be seen when using a pirahna on QMI with Incen ammo. Thing is everyones obsessed with using AP rounds so no one notices.)
#37
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:09
ryoldschool wrote...
So I should put the particle rifle with incendiary ammo on a character that has warp?
More like a Hurricane
#38
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:10
Ronnie Blastoff wrote...
....The DoT from incendiary ammo was always bugged...It also stacks ontop of itself. (can be seen when using a pirahna on QMI with Incen ammo. Thing is everyones obsessed with using AP rounds so no one notices.)
I'm pretty sure incendiary ammo's DOT is supposed to stack, just like Incenerate and Inferno Grenades do. How it behaves with warp is a whole other thing, and most likely a bug.
#39
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:12
#40
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:12
#41
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:16
I don't know how the numbers are calculated to this degree of accuracy by our tester here.
I also have a request Pedro, could you check the change in DoT per tick depending on the time between shots? I noticed that the DoT for the second shot was 86 with 1 tick between, but only 82 with two ticks between.
Cheers for all the hard work man!
#42
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:20
1 ammo vs shields bullet
(5905 - 4266) / 16 = 102.4375
= 102.3 OK is
Moving to the good stuff - armor damage
1 AMMO Shot (8 pellets)
16875 Total Armor
16832.599609 42.4004 (OK pellet damage vs armor (66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) - (50 * (1 - 0.65)) * 0.5 = 42.4 )
16790.199219 42.400391
16747.798828 42.400391
16705.398438 42.400391
16662.998047 42.400391
16620.597656 42.400391
16578.197266 42.400391
16535.796875 42.400391 // all 8 pellets hit OK
16416.894531 118.902344
16297.991211 118.903320
16179.087891 118.903320
16060.184570 118.903320
15941.281250 118.903320
15822.377930 118.903320
Total DoT damage should be 264 (66*0.5*8)
Total DOT damage OBSERVED 713.41992
///////////////////
///////////////////
///////////////////
Firing in auto mode (more indendiary stack)
16832.599609 42.4004
16790.199219 42.400391 pellet hits damage OK
16747.798828 42.400391
16705.398438 42.400391
16662.998047 42.400391
16620.597656 42.400391
16578.197266 42.400391
16535.796875 42.400391
16493.396484 42.400391
16450.996094 42.400391
16408.595703 42.400391
16366.195313 42.400391
16323.794922 42.400391
16281.394531 42.400391
16238.994141 42.400391
16196.593750 42.400391
16154.193359 42.400391
16111.792969 42.400391
16069.392578 42.400391
16026.992188 42.400391
15984.591797 42.400391
15942.191406 42.400391
15899.791016 42.400391
15556.548828 343.242188 incendiary tick already pimped
15514.148438 42.400391
15471.748047 42.400391
15429.347656 42.400391
15386.947266 42.400391
15344.546875 42.400391
15302.146484 42.400391
15259.746094 42.400391
15217.345703 42.400391
15174.945313 42.400391
15132.544922 42.400391
15090.144531 42.400391
15047.744141 42.400391
15005.343750 42.400391
14962.943359 42.400391
14920.542969 42.400391
14878.142578 42.400391
14835.742188 42.400391
14280.716797 555.025391 getting higher and higher
14238.316406 42.400391
14195.916016 42.400391
14153.515625 42.400391
14111.115234 42.400391
14068.714844 42.400391
14026.314453 42.400391
13983.914063 42.400391
13941.513672 42.400391
13899.113281 42.400391
13856.712891 42.400391
13814.312500 42.400391
13771.912109 42.400391
13729.511719 42.400391
13687.111328 42.400391
13644.710938 42.400391
13602.310547 42.400391
13559.910156 42.400391
12832.211914 727.698242 and higher still
12789.811523 42.400391
12747.411133 42.400391
12705.010742 42.400391
12662.610352 42.400391
12620.209961 42.400391
12577.809570 42.400391
12535.409180 42.400391
12493.008789 42.400391
12450.608398 42.400391
12408.208008 42.400391
12365.807617 42.400391
12323.407227 42.400391
12281.006836 42.400391
12238.606445 42.400391
12196.206055 42.400391
12153.805664 42.400391
12111.405273 42.400391
12069.004883 42.400391
11172.356445 896.648438 The final six incendiary DOT ticks ()
10275.708008 896.648438
9379.059570 896.648438
8482.411133 896.648438
7585.762207 896.648926
6689.113281 896.648926
74 pellets fired 66 * 0.5 * 74 = 2442 expected incendiary ammo damage
343.242188 + 555.025391 + 727.698242 + (896.648438 * 6) = 7005.85645 incendiary ammo damage inflicted
For comparison 42.4 * 74 = 3137.6 is the actual weapon damage the reegar inflicted ..
Fired the full clip (22 ammo) but was meleed and some pellets missed during the hit recovery animation ...
Next test will be with warp
Modifié par peddroelmz, 08 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .
#43
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:21
peddroelmz wrote...
Reegar Tests
1 ammo vs shields bullet
(5905 - 4266) / 16 = 102.4375
= 102.3 OK is
Moving to the good stuff - armor damage
1 AMMO Shot (8 pellets)
16875 Total Armor
16832.599609 42.4004 (OK pellet damage vs armor (66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) - (50 * (1 - 0.65)) * 0.5 = 42.4 )
16790.199219 42.400391
16747.798828 42.400391
16705.398438 42.400391
16662.998047 42.400391
16620.597656 42.400391
16578.197266 42.400391
16535.796875 42.400391 // all 8 pellets hit OK
16416.894531 118.902344
16297.991211 118.903320
16179.087891 118.903320
16060.184570 118.903320
15941.281250 118.903320
15822.377930 118.903320
Total DoT damage should be 264 (66*0.5*8)
Total DOT damage OBSERVED 713.41992
///////////////////
///////////////////
///////////////////
Firing in auto mode (more indendiary stack)
16832.599609 42.4004
16790.199219 42.400391 pellet hits damage OK
16747.798828 42.400391
16705.398438 42.400391
16662.998047 42.400391
16620.597656 42.400391
16578.197266 42.400391
16535.796875 42.400391
16493.396484 42.400391
16450.996094 42.400391
16408.595703 42.400391
16366.195313 42.400391
16323.794922 42.400391
16281.394531 42.400391
16238.994141 42.400391
16196.593750 42.400391
16154.193359 42.400391
16111.792969 42.400391
16069.392578 42.400391
16026.992188 42.400391
15984.591797 42.400391
15942.191406 42.400391
15899.791016 42.400391
15556.548828 343.242188 incendiary tick already pimped
15514.148438 42.400391
15471.748047 42.400391
15429.347656 42.400391
15386.947266 42.400391
15344.546875 42.400391
15302.146484 42.400391
15259.746094 42.400391
15217.345703 42.400391
15174.945313 42.400391
15132.544922 42.400391
15090.144531 42.400391
15047.744141 42.400391
15005.343750 42.400391
14962.943359 42.400391
14920.542969 42.400391
14878.142578 42.400391
14835.742188 42.400391
14280.716797 555.025391 getting higher and higher
14238.316406 42.400391
14195.916016 42.400391
14153.515625 42.400391
14111.115234 42.400391
14068.714844 42.400391
14026.314453 42.400391
13983.914063 42.400391
13941.513672 42.400391
13899.113281 42.400391
13856.712891 42.400391
13814.312500 42.400391
13771.912109 42.400391
13729.511719 42.400391
13687.111328 42.400391
13644.710938 42.400391
13602.310547 42.400391
13559.910156 42.400391
12832.211914 727.698242
12789.811523 42.400391
12747.411133 42.400391
12705.010742 42.400391
12662.610352 42.400391
12620.209961 42.400391
12577.809570 42.400391
12535.409180 42.400391
12493.008789 42.400391
12450.608398 42.400391
12408.208008 42.400391
12365.807617 42.400391
12323.407227 42.400391
12281.006836 42.400391
12238.606445 42.400391
12196.206055 42.400391
12153.805664 42.400391
12111.405273 42.400391
12069.004883 42.400391
11172.356445 896.648438 The final six incendiary DOT ticks ()
10275.708008 896.648438
9379.059570 896.648438
8482.411133 896.648438
7585.762207 896.648926
6689.113281 896.648926
74 pellets fired 66 * 0.5 * 74 = 2442 expected incendiary ammo damage
343.242188 + 555.025391 + 727.698242 + (896.648438 * 6) = 7005.85645 incendiary ammo damage inflicted
Fired the full clip (22 ammo) but was meleed and some pellets missed during the hit recovery animation ...
Next test will be with warp
Holy Numbers batman.
#44
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:22
#45
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:24
Not nessisarily sure, going by eye from experiences shooting atlus solo with Soldier/Claymore/AR/Incendiary ammo and QMI with Pirahna/Incendiary. I always noticed that "big damage" guns like widow/claymore/paladin if multiple shots were fired I could just leave an enemy like a brute to burn when I've only shot it 2 times and it still had 2~3 armor bars left. The DoT on incendiary ammo, and as modok8 mentioned grenades have always piled "additively" from the "looks" of it.Asebstos wrote...
But does it stack additively or multiplicatively?Ronnie Blastoff wrote...
....The DoT from incendiary ammo was always bugged...It also stacks ontop of itself. (can be seen when using a pirahna on QMI with Incen ammo. Thing is everyones obsessed with using AP rounds so no one notices.)
I don't have alot of solo experience with my HS. I use Hurrican II/Scorpion X with incen or Indra X/Scorpion. I always evo for detonate/expose/pierce. While shooting atlus with scorpion I do notice it takes a shytload of damage after I apply R6 warp, but no actual numbers to tell if its from DoT from ammo/scorpion, or some other source.
If OP #s for warp/ammo combo are correct though, I can see it being patched within a week. LOL can you imagine if not only it stacked, but stacked with an entire TEAM using incendiary ammo.
#46
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:25
heybigmoney wrote...
Sorry I'm roleplaying as a stupid elcor.
#47
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:26
peddroelmz wrote...
7005.85645 incendiary ammo damage inflicted
...
Next test will be with warp
If the paladin test is anything to go by, you're going to have to do this on a Platinum Atlas or Banshee to ensure that there's enough armour to test on...
Modifié par Heggy, 08 septembre 2012 - 08:27 .
#48
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:32
#49
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:34
#50
Posté 08 septembre 2012 - 08:44
*EDIT numbers show this test has been performed shooting the Geth Prime trough some obstacle (*0.6 damage penalty for the reegar shots)*
16242.187500 632.8125 //Warp impact damage OK
16230.058594 12.128906 //Warp DOT ticks OK
16217.929688 12.128906
16205.800781 12.128906
16193.671875 12.128906
16181.542969 12.128906 // Only 5 Warp DOT ticks - incendiary takes over
16150.624023 30.918945 // Reegar Pellet Damage vs Armor ( MUCH LOWER WITH WARP ON !!!)
*EDIT D'OH MOMENT* ((66 * 0.6 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) * 1.15) - (50 * (1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.65))) * 0.5 = 30.9185
Its the *0.6 damage penalty for shooting trough cover from the AP mod ..
16119.705078 30.918945
16088.786133 30.918945
16057.867188 30.918945
16026.948242 30.918945
15996.029297 30.918945
15965.110352 30.918945
15766.514648 198.595703 incendiary
15735.595703 30.918945
15704.676758 30.918945
15673.757813 30.918945
15642.838867 30.918945
15611.919922 30.918945
15581.000977 30.918945
15550.082031 30.918945
15519.163086 30.918945
15488.244141 30.918945
15457.325195 30.918945
15426.406250 30.918945
15395.487305 30.918945
15364.568359 30.918945
15333.649414 30.918945
15302.730469 30.918945
15271.811523 30.918945
14727.280273 544.531250 incendiary
14696.361328 30.918945
14665.442383 30.918945
14634.523438 30.918945
14603.604492 30.918945
14572.685547 30.918945
14541.766602 30.918945
14510.847656 30.918945
14479.928711 30.918945
14449.009766 30.918945
14418.090820 30.918945
14387.171875 30.918945
14356.252930 30.918945
14325.333984 30.918945
14294.415039 30.918945
14263.496094 30.918945
13446.717773 816.778320 incendiary
13415.798828 30.918945
13384.879883 30.918945
13353.960938 30.918945
13323.041992 30.918945
13292.123047 30.918945
13261.204102 30.918945
13230.285156 30.918945
13199.366211 30.918945
13168.447266 30.918945
13137.528320 30.918945
13106.609375 30.918945
13075.690430 30.918945
12103.337891 972.352539
12072.418945 30.918945
12041.500000 30.918945
12010.581055 30.918945
11979.662109 30.918945
10964.154297 1015.507813 // Final 6 Inflated Incendiary ammo damge ticks
9948.646484 1015.507813
8933.138672 1015.507813
7917.631348 1015.507324
6902.124023 1015.507324
5886.616699 1015.507324
53 pellets hit this time
expected incendiary ammo damage 66 * 0.5 * 53 = 1749
198.595703 + 544.53125 + 816.77832 + 972.352539 + 1015.507324 * 6 = 8625.30176 damage inflicted by incendiary ammo
Weapon Damage Inflicted by reegar 30.9189 * 53 = 1638.7017
Reegar pellet damage vs Armor is surprisingly lower with warp ammo on ...
Should be ((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) * 1.15) - (50 * (1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.65))) * 0.5 = 54.4475
But its only 30.91894 ?!?!?!?
*EDIT*
D'OH MOMENT - AP mod penalty for shooting trough cover *0.6 explains it perfectly
((66 * 0.6 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) * 1.15) - (50 * (1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.65))) * 0.5 = 30.9185
Apparently this test was performed shooting trough some sort of cover/corner ...
Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:30 .





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