335 réponses à ce sujet

[blacqout]

 … is Tali’Zorah’s age. 

In Mass Effect 2 we discover via her dossier that she was born in 2161, making her 22 during the events of the opening game - however this number doesn’t fit the girl we saved from Fist’s thugs in a Citadel alley, for reasons i will explain momentarily. 

Firstly, know that her age was given as a result of her popularity in the first game, and the droves of male fans that were upset she wasn’t a romanceable character.

BioWare, ever eager to pander to the scummiest of their fans (remember blonde shepard fiasco where misogynist comments caused them to hold a secondary poll) artificially aged Tali, so she could be included as a love interest without controversy.

We meet Tali while she is on her Pilgrimage, an act carried out by each Quarian when they ‘come of age’. This age could be anything, but if you pay careful attention you can narrow it down somewhat. Tali speaks with a noticeably high-pitched voice in the first game. Tali speaks with a noticeably deeper voice in the sequel. Voice artist Liz Sroka appears to be in her late 20’s, so there is no way this discrepancy can be attributed to a natural change in her voice… especially as she performs the role in a non-natural accent, indicating she has enough control to fake it.

The higher pitch of Tali would have been performed under the direction of BioWare, to fit the character that at this point, was envisioned as having not quite reached womanhood yet. A sort of Mission Vao for Mass Effect.

Obviously BioWare had to get Liz to use a deeper voice in the second game, in order to make her appear like less of a child… but the unfortunate fact is that Tali was re-written because some fans allowed their 29 year-old Commander Shepard to fall for an adolescent in Mass Effect.

I do wish they’d stop changing things for the worst elements within the fanbase.The misogynists got female Shepard’s hair changed from blonde to red, the idiots got the ending changed from a wonderfully symbolic closing to a by-the-numbers happy-o-thon, and the creeps got Tali changed from a bright kid to someone they could screw.

Modifié par blacqout, 08 septembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[Taboo]

Do you even know what misogyny is?

[ShepnTali]

Misogynists and idiots?


Ok.

[blacqout]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Do you even know what misogyny is?

The hatred of women by men. 

A comment implying that a woman with blonde hair is incapable certainly falls under the definition, unless it is made clear the commentator feels the same way about men with blonde hair.

[Taboo]

blacqout wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Do you even know what misogyny is?

The hatred of women by men. 

A comment implying that a woman with blonde hair is incapable certainly falls under the definition, unless it is made clear the commentator feels the same way about men with blonde hair.

Are you serious? They changed her hair color. People do that. Is it misogyny in the case of Miranda's hair changing? I don't think so. Her hair changes from ME2 to ME3.

You aren't really arguing anything substantive here.

[blacqout]

Taboo-XX wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Do you even know what misogyny is?

The hatred of women by men. 

A comment implying that a woman with blonde hair is incapable certainly falls under the definition, unless it is made clear the commentator feels the same way about men with blonde hair.

Are you serious? They changed her hair color. People do that. Is it misogyny in the case of Miranda's hair changing? I don't think so. Her hair changes from ME2 to ME3.

You aren't really arguing anything substantive here.

I think the fact that BioWare have a proven record of altering their games to suit portions of the fanbase with undesirable traits is significant. 

Specifically on the blonde thing, it is disgusting that BW allowed design policy to be dictated by the sorts of people that protested Femshep 5's election, with remakrs such as "she looks like a bimbo" and "she'd be too concerned with her nails to fight the Reapers".

[AresKeith]

worst trolling and insults ever -10/10

[Mr.House]

blacqout wrote...

A comment implying that a woman with blonde hair is incapable certainly falls under the definition, unless it is made clear the commentator feels the same way about men with blonde hair.

What is this i don't even...

[Ranger Jack Walker]

How is it a retcon if she wasn't even given an age before ME2? We know nothing about the life cycle of the quarains and at what age they start their pilgrimage. Veetor certainly didn't seem like a kid and sounded like an adult and he was supposed to be not totally mentally sound.

Seriously, learn what a word means before using it.

[Taboo]

blacqout wrote...

I think the fact that BioWare have a proven record of altering their games to suit portions of the fanbase with undesirable traits is significant. 

Specifically on the blonde thing, it is disgusting that BW allowed design policy to be dictated by the sorts of people that protested Femshep 5's election, with remakrs such as "she looks like a bimbo" and "she'd be too concerned with her nails to fight the Reapers".

I find it far more offensive that you even find this an issue. It isn't your choice.

She can be blonde, red headed, brunette, or brown haired. Suggesting otherwise is inappropropriate.

As for Tali? Who cares? It's a relationship between consenting adults. That isn't illegal in the real world. Why should it be wrong in a fictional universe?

Miranda is four years older than Shepard. Is that bad too?

[blacqout]

AresKeith wrote...

worst trolling and insults ever -10/10

You rated Kal'Reegar as a military asset worth 75 points, so i shouldn't be surprised at your ridiculous rating here.

Though i can appreciate that nobody likes to be called an idiot, and that you people are lashing out the only way you can.

[Most Definitely Sane]

I have to disagree about Tali's age. Before I found out her age, I had assumed she was 20 in ME.
It is possible for a young woman's voice to deepen a little bit in a few years.

And as for the "coming-of-age" thing, quarians are of a different culture. It is possible that they consider adulthood to begin a bit later than humans and turians.

[blacqout]

Taboo-XX wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I think the fact that BioWare have a proven record of altering their games to suit portions of the fanbase with undesirable traits is significant. 

Specifically on the blonde thing, it is disgusting that BW allowed design policy to be dictated by the sorts of people that protested Femshep 5's election, with remakrs such as "she looks like a bimbo" and "she'd be too concerned with her nails to fight the Reapers".

I find it far more offensive that you even find this an issue. It isn't your choice.

She can be blonde, red headed, brunette, or brown haired. Suggesting otherwise is inappropropriate.

As for Tali? Who cares? It's a relationship between consenting adults. That isn't illegal in the real world. Why should it be wrong in a fictional universe?

Miranda is four years older than Shepard. Is that bad too?

You find it offensive that i'm disgusted by the fact that BioWare, after unveiling a blonde as Commander Shepard, were forced to change it after being barraged with prejudiced remarks? That's... special.

Tali wasn't a consenting adult in the first game, but people found themselves 'liking' her anyway. Hence the character re-write for ME2. 

I'm not sure if your Miranda argument is a strawman, or if you geniunely misunderstood the implications of my opening post.

[David7204]

Is this a joke?

[Ranger Jack Walker]

After she completed her pilgrimage, she is an adult. Deal with it.

While I agree that it was a major fail on Bioware's part to submit to those who protested FemShep's design solely because she was blonde, Tali's case is a completely different matter.

Modifié par Ranger Jack Walker, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:15 .

[D24O]

2/10 troll thread OP. Needs moar Dinosaurs.

[Taboo]

blacqout wrote...

You find it offensive that i'm disgusted by the fact that BioWare, after unveiling a blonde as Commander Shepard, were forced to change it after being barraged with prejudiced remarks? That's... special.

Tali wasn't a consenting adult in the first game, but people found themselves 'liking' her anyway. Hence the character re-write for ME2. 

I'm not sure if your Miranda argument is a strawman, or if you geniunely misunderstood the implications of my opening post.

I'm presenting an opinion.

Blonde. Red. Black. The color makes no difference. The only one taking issue with it is you. It's an aesthetic choice. They can make her hair whatever color they want it to be.

Tali is twenty years old in ME1. That's an adult. Why would you be upset about that? Does this have to do with the fact that she's alien?

I think you're far more concerned with nitpicking than providing an actual argument. This is an opinion of YOURS. Not of everyone elses'.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:16 .

[InvincibleHero]

What problem is there? You are talking 22 years old and 29. That is acceptable. Now if she was 16 it would be unacceptable. Tali may have been naive being cloistered in the flotilla all her life but she was an adult woman. Disclaimer: I have NEVER romanced Tali so don't even go there.

[GreyLycanTrope]

That would be Gillian's age actually, regardless:

Even as a troll thread, poor show.

[blacqout]

InvincibleHero wrote...

What problem is there? You are talking 22 years old and 29. That is acceptable. Now if she was 16 it would be unacceptable. Tali may have been naive being cloistered in the flotilla all her life but she was an adult woman. Disclaimer: I have NEVER romanced Tali so don't even go there.

The issue is that at the time of Mass Effect 1, Tali was not written as a character of 20 years. This is evident from her mannerisms and especially her voice. 

People grow up, and the character is very much presented as an actual adult in ME2, but my issue is that she was re-written to appease a group within the fanbase that were disappointed they couldn't romance her in the first game.

[Mr.House]

blacqout wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

What problem is there? You are talking 22 years old and 29. That is acceptable. Now if she was 16 it would be unacceptable. Tali may have been naive being cloistered in the flotilla all her life but she was an adult woman. Disclaimer: I have NEVER romanced Tali so don't even go there.

The issue is that at the time of Mass Effect 1, Tali was not written as a character of 20 years. This is evident from her mannerisms and especially her voice. 

People grow up, and the character is very much presented as an actual adult in ME2, but my issue is that she was re-written to appease a group within the fanbase that were disappointed they couldn't romance her in the first game.

Just because your voice tone is high does not mean you're young....

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Not a very good troll thread, OP. And it includes so many insults, what are you compensating for?

[blacqout]

Taboo-XX wrote...

blacqout wrote...

You find it offensive that i'm disgusted by the fact that BioWare, after unveiling a blonde as Commander Shepard, were forced to change it after being barraged with prejudiced remarks? That's... special.

Tali wasn't a consenting adult in the first game, but people found themselves 'liking' her anyway. Hence the character re-write for ME2. 

I'm not sure if your Miranda argument is a strawman, or if you geniunely misunderstood the implications of my opening post.

I'm presenting an opinion.

Blonde. Red. Black. The color makes no difference. The only one taking issue with it is you. It's an aesthetic choice. They can make her hair whatever color they want it to be.

Tali is twenty years old in ME1. That's an adult. Why would you be upset about that? Does this have to do with the fact that she's alien?

I think you're far more concerned with nitpicking than providing an actual argument. This is an opinion of YOURS. Not of everyone elses'.

Your opinion isn't very well thought-out. Allow me to elaborate. 

BioWare held a poll to allow us, the fans, to choose a look for female Shepard. Do you remember? Anyway, the blonde won and that was that. 

Only a group of people complained, and said some very unkind things about blonde women in the process, and BioWare caved. Basically validating all the petty remarks made against women with fair hair. It was disgusting. 

Had a redhead or brunette won originally, there wouldn't have been a problem.