335 réponses à ce sujet

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
one of my favorites. Shame garrus wasn't s/s. That would have been amazing.

Nope, it would ruined the integrity of his character.

It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and still possess the qualities of being honest and keeping strong moral principles.

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
one of my favorites. Shame garrus wasn't s/s. That would have been amazing.

Nope, it would ruined the integrity of his character.

It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and still possess the qualities of being honest and keeping strong moral principles.

Garrus is a male figure, he is cool and crisp.
He has sex with females of similar rank to ease tension.

Making him gay would  not only make him look confused, it would destroy his vibe.
Best not to force any needless gayness on to his character.

Modifié par I am disappoint, 09 septembre 2012 - 12:51 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

blacqout wrote...

There was so much good about the game, that i geniunely pity those of you who are unable to look past a cosmetic flaw. With the exception of Jade Empire, it's the best story BW have penned, and the characterisation was awesome. 

And again with the looking down on others attitude. If you want to love DA2, that's your choice. But this approach you have where it's because we're "doing it wrong" needs to go. The cosmetic issue was far from the only reason for the dislike of DA2 and I'd actually place it as their weakest narrative, excluding Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 1. There was so much that was a step back from Origin's in terms of gameplay, setting, and choices.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 09 septembre 2012 - 12:53 .

[I am disappoint]

You can't be turning every male into a gay person.
Gay people are a minority, 1/2 gay males is enough, any more and the vibe of males is lost.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
one of my favorites. Shame garrus wasn't s/s. That would have been amazing.

Nope, it would ruined the integrity of his character.

It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and still possess the qualities of being honest and keeping strong moral principles.

Garrus is a male figure, he is cool and crisp.
He has sex with females of similar rank to ease tension.

Making him gay would  not only make him look confused, it would destroy his vibe.
Best not to force any needless gayness on to his character.

You appear to be unfamiliar with the concept of bisexuality. Your thoughts on what 'gayness' would do to his character are disgusting and have no place in modern society.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

You can't be turning every male into a gay person.
Gay people are a minority, 1/2 gay males is enough, any more and the vibe of males is lost.

If gay player wishes to romance Garrus, he should be able to. It should be handled in such a way that those who don't wish to pursue such a relationship need not know of Garrus' flexibility, like it was in DAII (with the exception of Isabela) - another thing that game did incredibly well. 

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
one of my favorites. Shame garrus wasn't s/s. That would have been amazing.

Nope, it would ruined the integrity of his character.

It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and still possess the qualities of being honest and keeping strong moral principles.

Garrus is a male figure, he is cool and crisp.
He has sex with females of similar rank to ease tension.

Making him gay would  not only make him look confused, it would destroy his vibe.
Best not to force any needless gayness on to his character.

You appear to be unfamiliar with the concept of bisexuality. Your thoughts on what 'gayness' would do to his character are disgusting and have no place in modern society.

I know of bisexuality, you can't be turning every male bi.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
one of my favorites. Shame garrus wasn't s/s. That would have been amazing.

Nope, it would ruined the integrity of his character.

It is perfectly possible to be a homosexual and still possess the qualities of being honest and keeping strong moral principles.

Garrus is a male figure, he is cool and crisp.
He has sex with females of similar rank to ease tension.

Making him gay would  not only make him look confused, it would destroy his vibe.
Best not to force any needless gayness on to his character.

You appear to be unfamiliar with the concept of bisexuality. Your thoughts on what 'gayness' would do to his character are disgusting and have no place in modern society.

I know of bisexuality, you can't be turning every male bi.

Of course. You're right. How silly of me!

BioWare should just pretend that men who like men don't exist, and continue making games offering preferential treatment to the heterosexual male gamer. 

Make an obviously young character old enough so they can have sex with her. Increase the bra size of Liara. Change any number of characters in any number of noticeable ways... so long as it's not something a homosexual might appreciate.

Perish the thought.

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

You can't be turning every male into a gay person.
Gay people are a minority, 1/2 gay males is enough, any more and the vibe of males is lost.

If gay player wishes to romance Garrus, he should be able to. It should be handled in such a way that those who don't wish to pursue such a relationship need not know of Garrus' flexibility, like it was in DAII (with the exception of Isabela) - another thing that game did incredibly well. 

No he should not be able too.
I want to have thressome with Tali and Liara, but I can't because it would ruin their integrity as characters.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

You can't be turning every male into a gay person.
Gay people are a minority, 1/2 gay males is enough, any more and the vibe of males is lost.

If gay player wishes to romance Garrus, he should be able to. It should be handled in such a way that those who don't wish to pursue such a relationship need not know of Garrus' flexibility, like it was in DAII (with the exception of Isabela) - another thing that game did incredibly well. 

No he should not be able too.
I want to have thressome with Tali and Liara, but I can't because it would ruin their integrity as characters.

There is nothing to imply that. In fact, if you chat up both Ashley and Liara in ME1, and propose a threesome, only Ashley takes offense. Liara does not. 

We don't know Tali's stance on the matter. 

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

Of course. You're right. How silly of me!

BioWare should just pretend that men who like men don't exist, and continue making games offering preferential treatment to the heterosexual male gamer. 

Make an obviously young character old enough so they can have sex with her. Increase the bra size of Liara. Change any number of characters in any number of noticeable ways... so long as it's not something a homosexual might appreciate.

Perish the thought.

Nope, bioware can make gay romances.
But they should not pretend every male is bi and that straight males don't exist.


The majority of these males in question are heterosexual, why would they make a gayfest of a game for these males when they're heterosexual?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned minority already.

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

You can't be turning every male into a gay person.
Gay people are a minority, 1/2 gay males is enough, any more and the vibe of males is lost.

If gay player wishes to romance Garrus, he should be able to. It should be handled in such a way that those who don't wish to pursue such a relationship need not know of Garrus' flexibility, like it was in DAII (with the exception of Isabela) - another thing that game did incredibly well. 

No he should not be able too.
I want to have thressome with Tali and Liara, but I can't because it would ruin their integrity as characters.

There is nothing to imply that. In fact, if you chat up both Ashley and Liara in ME1, and propose a threesome, only Ashley takes offense. Liara does not. 

We don't know Tali's stance on the matter. 

It doesn't allow me to ask, it's better that way.
Same for Garrus.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Of course. You're right. How silly of me!

BioWare should just pretend that men who like men don't exist, and continue making games offering preferential treatment to the heterosexual male gamer. 

Make an obviously young character old enough so they can have sex with her. Increase the bra size of Liara. Change any number of characters in any number of noticeable ways... so long as it's not something a homosexual might appreciate.

Perish the thought.

Nope, bioware can make gay romances.
But they should not pretend every male is bi and that straight males don't exist.


The majority of these males in question are heterosexual, why would they make a gayfest of a game for these males when they're heterosexual?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned minority already.

And i'm pretty sure that i've already mentioned they wouldn't need to let the player know that every male is bisexual, because they managed to do this in Dragon Age II. 

Unless you lead Anders and Fenris on, they will not 'make a move' on Hawke. And when they do, the intent of their comment is retroactively determined by your response. 

In my playthrough, there was absolutely no indication that Fenris liked men (or that Merril liked women) so what's the problem? Gay players were given as much choice as straight players, and straight players didn't have their game affected at all. 

Modifié par blacqout, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:15 .

[Transairion]

I don't believe Tali's age was retconned or altered at all between ME1 and ME2... mostly since, we didn't know her age then. She was undergoing her rite of passage pilgrimage to be fully recognised adult in the flotilla, and she was considered  a young woman... but given she's not half Shepard's height and had a pretty prominent chest, it seems pretty obvious she's not 11 years old.

I started in ME2 and I was charmed by Tali's sweetness, innonence and mysterious adorableness (ok, she didn't have much competition in the form of a mostly-naked mass murderer and a Cerberus hooker), but when I played ME1 she was pretty much like she was in ME1: just a bit more childish since she was... well, younger. I specfically did a no-romance playthrough just to remain "loyal" for ME2, but I think  one of the real reasons that Tali didn't get a romance option in ME1 was the fact she was fully suited up and meant to be part of a mysterious race: compare that to the other romance scenes where they're stark naked. Showing a naked Quarian sex-scene after spending so much time going on about how nobody knows what they look like... pretty unrealstic. And the only romances in ME1 were with humans, and the species that conviently looks exactly like a blue human woman with funky hair.

Personally, I think trying to claim Tali is "too young for Shepard" in ME1 is a load of plop since as a result you're also claiming that Quarians send their children/teenagers out into the galaxy by themselves to find something valuable or don't come back at all (or they die trying). Doesn't sound like something any race concerned with actual survivable of their species would do, so it's safe to say Quarians on their pilgrimage are considered adults in all but title (which they earn upon return to the flotilla).

So as a Talimancer, I see Tali as a naive young woman in ME1 (~18-20 Earth equivelent), and in ME2 she matures a lot as a result of Shepard's influence and the whole galaxy-saving ordeal. Male Shepards ("Canon"-wise I'd say more the Paragon ones, but I'm bias as hell) especially steamed up her visor due to being so brave and dashing and carting little ol' her around to save the universe.... but isn't it kind of a given that some women adore heroics? Superheroes gotta get some action too.


TLDR: Tali's been an adult since the game started, even if she acted "childish" in ME1.  Quarians and humans aren't exactly the same anyway, so who says Quarian adulthood doesn't start at like age 16 instead of 18?

[blacqout]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

You appear to be unfamiliar with the concept of hetrosexuality. Let me break it down for you, champ.

It's when a man only wants to be with woman, and when a woman only wants to be with a man. Very simple, is it not? Society may now accept bisexuality and homosexuality more than ever, but that doesn't mean that everyone is a bisexual or homosexual. This idea that everyone in the series needs to be bisexual is unmitigatedly stupid. Whether it's 2012 or 2186, there are to be people who are only heterosexual or homsexual, and there will be people who are bisexual, and that should reflect in entertainment.

You're just some jaw-flapping ignoramus who wants to put words in the mouths of other people just to argue with them.

As i've already explained, BioWare have in the past been able to include the possibility of certain characters being open to same-sex romances without making it obvious to the player, unless they knowingly pursue the option. 

For all intents and purposes, if you don't make a move on Fenris in Dragon Age II, he can be seen as strictly heterosexual. 

I'm all for giving every Mass Effect fan as wide a variety of romance options as possible, as long as it's done in way that wont render every character knowingly bisexual in every person's playthrough. 

You don't seem to have understood the discussion thus far.

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Of course. You're right. How silly of me!

BioWare should just pretend that men who like men don't exist, and continue making games offering preferential treatment to the heterosexual male gamer. 

Make an obviously young character old enough so they can have sex with her. Increase the bra size of Liara. Change any number of characters in any number of noticeable ways... so long as it's not something a homosexual might appreciate.

Perish the thought.

Nope, bioware can make gay romances.
But they should not pretend every male is bi and that straight males don't exist.


The majority of these males in question are heterosexual, why would they make a gayfest of a game for these males when they're heterosexual?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned minority already.

And i'm pretty sure that i've already mentioned they wouldn't need to let the player know that every male is bisexual, because they managed to do this in Dragon Age II. 

Unless you lead Anders and Fenris on, they will not 'make a move' on Hawke. And when they do, the intent of their comment is retroactively determined by your response. 

In my playthrough, there was absolutely no indication that Fenris liked men (or that Merril liked women) so what's the problem? Gay players were given as much choice as straight players, and straight players didn't have their game affected at all. 

I already made my point, I have nothing more to add.
Everyone is not bi and Bioware should respect that.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Of course. You're right. How silly of me!

BioWare should just pretend that men who like men don't exist, and continue making games offering preferential treatment to the heterosexual male gamer. 

Make an obviously young character old enough so they can have sex with her. Increase the bra size of Liara. Change any number of characters in any number of noticeable ways... so long as it's not something a homosexual might appreciate.

Perish the thought.

Nope, bioware can make gay romances.
But they should not pretend every male is bi and that straight males don't exist.


The majority of these males in question are heterosexual, why would they make a gayfest of a game for these males when they're heterosexual?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned minority already.

And i'm pretty sure that i've already mentioned they wouldn't need to let the player know that every male is bisexual, because they managed to do this in Dragon Age II. 

Unless you lead Anders and Fenris on, they will not 'make a move' on Hawke. And when they do, the intent of their comment is retroactively determined by your response. 

In my playthrough, there was absolutely no indication that Fenris liked men (or that Merril liked women) so what's the problem? Gay players were given as much choice as straight players, and straight players didn't have their game affected at all. 

I already made my point, I have nothing more to add.
Everyone is not bi and Bioware should respect that.

Your point is ridiculous and you come across as homophobic, so you may wish to reconsider. Just an FYI. 

You would not need to know that each character is open to a same-sex relationship. If it doesn't happen in your game, you're free to consider the character's sexual orientation whatever doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities.

[I am disappoint]

It doesn't matter what happens ingame, if that character is open to both sexes then that character is bi.
It doesn't matter if they don't show/tell the player they're bi, they're still bi.
So I'm a homophobic just because I don't believe every male in the world should be labeled as bi and free for the taking.
This isn't even about gay characters, you don't think their should not be any gay or straight characters, in fact you're homophobic one.

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...

It doesn't matter what happens ingame, if that character is open to both sexes then that character is bi.
It doesn't matter if they don't show/tell the player they're bi, they're still bi.
So I'm a homophobic just because I don't believe every male in the world should be labeled as bi and free for the taking.
This isn't even about gay characters, you don't think their should not be any gay or straight characters, in fact you're homophobic one.

You are mistaken. My way of doing things would allow the player to decide the sexual orientation of each member of the pool of romanceable characters.

There is no 'canon romance' for Shepard, so there need not be any 'canon sexuality' for any of the LIs, unless a past relationship is a part of their backstory as it was for Thane. In thich case he would appear bisexual in the playthrough of a male Shepard that wished to romance him. 

The same for Garrus, considering his conversation with Shepard about QCC in ME2. However, if you don't pursue a romance with him, you are free to see him as strictly straight. Remember: no canon romances. 

Now, say you're playing a female and romance Tali. We don't know of any past relationships, so you would be justified in viewing her as a lesbian. 

Saying that Garrus would need to be seen as bisexual if someone romanced him is like saying the Rachni queen is killed in ME1, regardless of player choice.

[Transairion]

Saying that Garrus would need to be seen as bisexual if someone romanced him is like saying the Rachni queen is killed in ME1, regardless of player choice.

Let them just say it'd be really freaking weird to do a playthrough as Shepard of one gender and romance X, then do another playthrough as the other gender and try and romance X again, and they go for it both times unless it's fully built into their character (aka Liara "I dun have a gender lol I'll sex you FemShep . What's a lesbian?").

Bascially what you want is for everyone to have sex with Shepard no matter the gender, which as a "normal player" I would find confusing as hell when trying it with both genders. "Oh so Garrus is straight" "Wait, no, he's gay now. Huh?"

Every romance option across all 3 games being bisexual? It's like they don't even have a choice, they're either "Shepardsexual" I think is the term, of they're thrown off the ship. Maybe Renegades like that, I don't...

Modifié par Transairion, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:46 .

[I am disappoint]

blacqout wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

It doesn't matter what happens ingame, if that character is open to both sexes then that character is bi.
It doesn't matter if they don't show/tell the player they're bi, they're still bi.
So I'm a homophobic just because I don't believe every male in the world should be labeled as bi and free for the taking.
This isn't even about gay characters, you don't think their should not be any gay or straight characters, in fact you're homophobic one.

You are mistaken. My way of doing things would allow the player to decide the sexual orientation of each member of the pool of romanceable characters.

There is no 'canon romance' for Shepard, so there need not be any 'canon sexuality' for any of the LIs, unless a past relationship is a part of their backstory as it was for Thane. In thich case he would appear bisexual in the playthrough of a male Shepard that wished to romance him. 

The same for Garrus, considering his conversation with Shepard about QCC in ME2. However, if you don't pursue a romance with him, you are free to see him as strictly straight. Remember: no canon romances. 

Now, say you're playing a female and romance Tali. We don't know of any past relationships, so you would be justified in viewing her as a lesbian. 

Saying that Garrus would need to be seen as bisexual if someone romanced him is like saying the Rachni queen is killed in ME1, regardless of player choice.

The player doesn't decide the likes and dislikes of a NPC.
The NPC decides that and you(you) want them all to be bi.

Tali gives no indication of been a Lesiban but you think it is justified to assume she is a lesiban.
I'm pretty sure that's how bully goes, you sound like a  bully.
Just to talk about the game you're referencing about this, that game was terrible.
This ideology didn't help.

Modifié par I am disappoint, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:48 .

[blacqout]

Transairion wrote...

Saying that Garrus would need to be seen as bisexual if someone romanced him is like saying the Rachni queen is killed in ME1, regardless of player choice.

Let them just say it'd be really freaking weird to do a playthrough as Shepard of one gender and romance X, then do another playthrough as the other gender and try and romance X again, and they go for it both times unless it's fully built into their character.

Bascially what you want is for everyone to have sex with Shepard no matter the gender, which as a "normal player" I would find confusing as hell when trying it with both genders. "Oh so Garrus is straight" "Wait, no, he's gay now. Huh?"

Every romance option across all 3 games being bisexual? It's like they don't even have a choice, they're either "Shepardsexual" I think is the term, of they're thrown off the ship. Maybe Renegades like that, I don't...

This was basically how it was done in Dragon Age II, and worked really well. 

I don't see why you're putting so much emphasis on whether a character is straight or not. BioWare didn't. Their sexualities are scarcely touched upon. 

If you lack the ability to view each playthrough as its own adventure - which, you know, it actually is - where things can unfold in ways they didn't previously, then Mass Effect might not be the series for you. Try Gears of War.

[I am disappoint]

If Mass effect did incorporate this crazy system.
You could romance
- Ashley in ME1

In ME2, due to how it works you can do multiple romances so pretty much you can turn everyone BI or shepardsexual.

In ME3 you can romance Cortez or Traynor.
And there you have it, your romances confused everyone's sexuality in 1 playthrough.
Is this what you want?

[blacqout]

I am disappoint wrote...


Tali gives no indication of been a Lesiban but you think it is justified to assume she is a lesiban.

This line sums up your view nicely. Perhaps homosexuals should all be made to wear special badges so they are more easily identified?

An NPC, just like an actual person, is not defined by their sexuality. You've seen in this thread that some gay players found themselves attracted to Garrus and wish that was option was available to them.

If in their game they could get their male Shepard to enter a relationship with them, in their game he would be gay. That wouldn't affect any playthrough made by yourself or a fellow homophobe.