CronoDragoon wrote...
Dendio1 wrote...
Bioware is making the ending work by adding in appropriate foreshadowing via leviathan. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's a you problem.
If leviathan was in the base game, there would be no mass effect 3 ending fiasco
If Leviathan and the EC were in the base game, I think you meant. People still would have complained about the ending but you are right, there would have been no Retake movement or 80k to charity.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Insulting people still won't help you even when you keep on ignoring those examples of foreshadowing.The Night Mammoth wrote...
I assert there is no foreshadowing of ME3's ending in the story.
Blueprotoss asserts there is.
He refuses to make any sort of case for his assertions and apparently other people, who ask him to do this, are in the wrong because they are 'too stubborn' to agree with him despite being provided nothing to actually argue against.
Yeah, no, there's something fishy going on here.
All I can say now is that you're doing a horrible job at wanting answers.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Insulting people still won't help you even when you keep on ignoring those examples of foreshadowing. All I can say now is that you're doing a horrible job at wanting answers.The Night Mammoth wrote...
I assert there is no foreshadowing of ME3's ending in the story.
Blueprotoss asserts there is.
He refuses to make any sort of case for his assertions and apparently other people, who ask him to do this, are in the wrong because they are 'too stubborn' to agree with him despite being provided nothing to actually argue against.
Yeah, no, there's something fishy going on here.
I see you're still playing the "deny everything" game.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You haven't provided any.
And the first six times I asked?
Now you're just floundering.
One feasts upon a Leviathanmongoosephantom wrote...
This again? One does not simply eat a Leviathan..D24O wrote...
LucasShark wrote...
David7204 wrote...
So tell me. How exactly does Leviathan 'ruin' the Destroy ending?
Tell me: what is going to happen in the destroy ending where the only restraining element on a race of psychic space beings who lust to be worshipped has been removed?
We make sushi.
Saren, the Geth, Sovreign, AIs, and Leviathan are good examples many in ME1. The Collectors, TIM, the Geth again, EDI, more AIs, Harbinger, and more on Leviathan are good exmples. Its useless to examples in ME3 based on how there are.Xellith wrote...
All bull aside. And im not going to reread the entire thread. Where is the foreshadowing in ME?
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 11 septembre 2012 - 04:59 .
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see you're still playing the "deny everything" game.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You haven't provided any.
And the first six times I asked?
Now you're just floundering.
Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:31 .
Yet you aren't "winning" when you're actually ignoring.The Night Mammoth wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see you're still playing the "deny everything" game.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You haven't provided any.
And the first six times I asked?
Now you're just floundering.
If so, then I'm winning.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you aren't "winning" when you're actually ignoring.The Night Mammoth wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see you're still playing the "deny everything" game.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You haven't provided any.
And the first six times I asked?
Now you're just floundering.
If so, then I'm winning.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Saren, the Geth, Sovreign, AIs, and Leviathan are good examples many in ME1. The Collectors, TIM, the Geth again, EDI, more AIs, Harbinger, and more on Leviathan are good exmples. Its useless to examples in ME3 based on how there are.Xellith wrote...
All bull aside. And im not going to reread the entire thread. Where is the foreshadowing in ME?
Modifié par eddieoctane, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:59 .
Yet I have and you keep ignoring them. You can only do so much by running away.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You've not actually made an attempt to support your assertions.
ME1 and ME2 did a lot of foreshadoowing just like ME3 did. There's nothing surprising about the Reapers being involved in a Created vs Creator theme even when the Geth was the current cycle's example of synthetics being a problem.eddieoctane wrote...
You can't foreshadow what has already happened. Is that metagaming? I suppose. But so is killing Shepard and then showing a PowerPoint presentation about how the galaxy got on without him/her. The EC requires you to step back and cease to be your character. When that happens, you're metagaming. BioWare can't require it one place and then expect you to not do it when it is convenient for them. So you can;t go back an re-foreshadow something.
Yet I'm talking about Leviathan as the general rumors in ME1, ME2, and ME3 that existed before the Leviathan DLC was done.eddieoctane wrote...
Well, I've just explained why Leviathan can't count as foreshadowing. EDI is a synthetic that willingly helps organics and actually falls in love with one. So she's out as an example as well.
Led the Geth to kill millions of organics that were mainly humans and he also thought Synthesis was the goal to peace.eddieoctane wrote...
Please explain how Saren foreshadows that synthetics will try to wipe us out? He thinks the Reapers can be reasoned with and will gladly elevate him as their chief thrall. Sovereign doesn't explain anything back in ME1. At best, you've got the self-destructing card coutner AI from ME1, which was acting out of fear when it decided to blow itself up, even if Shep tried to reason with it, and the Geth from ME1, though ME2 throws a wrinkle in.
The Geth is just another race and factions have always appeared within races.eddieoctane wrote...
The Geth in ME2 were demonstrated to have two distinct factions: one that worshiped the Reapers without knowing their true form or function, and another who only wanted to coexist peacefully. Both cases refute the point of AIs wanting the inevitable destruction of organics. One was order to that task by a Reaper, meaning the decision wasn't theirs. The other wasn't actively hostile. If anything, ME2 un-foreshadowed the AI conflict.
The Colectors are synthetic slaves to the Reapers that were led by Harbinger and TIM was an organic that became a slave to Harbinger.eddieoctane wrote...
Also, I fail to see how Harbinger, TIM, and the Collectors fit into this mess. The Collectors were hybrids working under a Reaper. They weren't using machines to wipe out anything. They used other hybrids as tools to collect more material for building a Reaper (also a hybrid). If anything, the Collectors demonstrated the danger in half-synthetic, half-organic mash-ups. As Harbinger was a Reaper controlling the whole process, he also fit in with the Collectors. And TIM, well, I can't really see how he fits into the AI vs organic conflict one way or the other.
Yet I keep on giving examples and its not my fault that some people miss foreshadowing whether its in a game, novel, comic, tv show, or movie.eddieoctane wrote...
If you want to give example, you need to actually explain them. Anyone can rattle of a list, but the entries mean nothing without context.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 12 septembre 2012 - 02:31 .
Guest_Nyoka_*
Modifié par Nyoka, 12 septembre 2012 - 02:44 .
Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet I have and you keep ignoring them. You can only do so much by running away.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You've not actually made an attempt to support your assertions.
MetioricTest wrote...
LucasShark wrote...
plfranke wrote...
So it should become practice to take out vital plot information and then selling it after the game has already been out for months for a tacked on fee? Mega sometimes you post some of the wiser things on these forums and then I wonder how you can post something like this.MegaSovereign wrote...
The Leviathan DLC was planned before the release of the game. It was pushed back because of the ending controversy.
Its existence isn't tied to forum's b*tching.
My thoughts exactly, not only is it litterary cheating, but it is precisely what I hoped DLC would NEVER become.
It's actually not that which is the problem. Vital plot points are one thing, what can DLC be about if not vital plot points? A lot of the best DLC is. But we're talking about FORESHADOWING a character... after they appear... through DLC.
That's absurd.
As much as Levvy gave us plot-points and reveals, he also set up the Catalyst nicely... Which is bizarre because already met him...without set-up
Modifié par KingZayd, 12 septembre 2012 - 03:18 .
SnakeSNMF wrote...
D24O wrote...
Buy DLC.
Please look at the menaing of a "troll" because I'm neither the one insulting people nor resisting reason.The Night Mammoth wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet I have and you keep ignoring them. You can only do so much by running away.The Night Mammoth wrote...
You've not actually made an attempt to support your assertions.
Right, you're a troll.
Because really haven't tried once and everyone can see that.
You lose, I'm out.
Wrong. Saren was not looking for peace. Saren was looking to prove that organics were useful to the Reapers so that they might be spared, even as slaves. Synthesis was not a goal to peace, but a reward. An upgrade, to make organics better. That's it. That same scenario would also count as foreshadowing that the Turians will try to wipe us out.Blueprotoss wrote...
Led the Geth to kill millions of organics that were mainly humans and he also thought Synthesis was the goal to peace.eddieoctane wrote...
Please explain how Saren foreshadows that synthetics will try to wipe us out? He thinks the Reapers can be reasoned with and will gladly elevate him as their chief thrall. Sovereign doesn't explain anything back in ME1. At best, you've got the self-destructing card coutner AI from ME1, which was acting out of fear when it decided to blow itself up, even if Shep tried to reason with it, and the Geth from ME1, though ME2 throws a wrinkle in.
Actually, here the Heretics had the free will to make their choice. They did choose to help the Reapers against Organics in return for tech that would help their "evolution". The majority "True" Geth, who turned down Sovereign and maintained neutraility, suggesting thatnot all synthetics don't necessarily want to kill us.Blueprotoss wrote...
The Geth is just another race and factions have always appeared within races.eddieoctane wrote...
The Geth in ME2 were demonstrated to have two distinct factions: one that worshiped the Reapers without knowing their true form or function, and another who only wanted to coexist peacefully. Both cases refute the point of AIs wanting the inevitable destruction of organics. One was order to that task by a Reaper, meaning the decision wasn't theirs. The other wasn't actively hostile. If anything, ME2 un-foreshadowed the AI conflict.
Blueprotoss wrote...
The Colectors are synthetic slaves to the Reapers that were led by Harbinger and TIM was an organic that became a slave to Harbinger.eddieoctane wrote...
Also, I fail to see how Harbinger, TIM, and the Collectors fit into this mess. The Collectors were hybrids working under a Reaper. They weren't using machines to wipe out anything. They used other hybrids as tools to collect more material for building a Reaper (also a hybrid). If anything, the Collectors demonstrated the danger in half-synthetic, half-organic mash-ups. As Harbinger was a Reaper controlling the whole process, he also fit in with the Collectors. And TIM, well, I can't really see how he fits into the AI vs organic conflict one way or the other.
Modifié par KingZayd, 12 septembre 2012 - 03:50 .
How is that when Saren was looking for peace through synthesis to coexist.KingZayd wrote...
Wrong. Saren was not looking for peace. Saren was looking to prove that organics were useful to the Reapers so that they might be spared, even as slaves. Synthesis was not a goal to peace, but a reward. An upgrade, to make organics better. That's it. That same scenario would also count as foreshadowing that the Turians would try to wipe us out.
The Geth are Geth just like Humanity is Human.KingZayd wrote...
Actually, here the Heretics had the free will to make their choice. They did choose to help the Reapers against Organics in return for tech that would help their "evolution". The majority "True" Geth, who turned down Sovereign and maintained neutraility, suggesting that synthetics don't necessarily want to kill us all.
So you missed the whole "assuming control" when Harbinger directly controlled his Collector followers. Husks are husks and all of them are indoctrinated.KingZayd wrote...
False. The collectors are the remants of indoctrinated Protheans. They are Organic mixed with synthetic parts, and cloned. They, the Keepers, and all the different varieties of husks, (and the Reapers themselves) are actually foreshadowing of the horror of Reaper synthesis.
Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when Saren was looking for peace through synthesis to coexist.KingZayd wrote...
Wrong. Saren was not looking for peace. Saren was looking to prove that organics were useful to the Reapers so that they might be spared, even as slaves. Synthesis was not a goal to peace, but a reward. An upgrade, to make organics better. That's it. That same scenario would also count as foreshadowing that the Turians would try to wipe us out.The Geth are Geth just like Humanity is Human.KingZayd wrote...
Actually, here the Heretics had the free will to make their choice. They did choose to help the Reapers against Organics in return for tech that would help their "evolution". The majority "True" Geth, who turned down Sovereign and maintained neutraility, suggesting that synthetics don't necessarily want to kill us all.So you missed the whole "assuming control" when Harbinger directly controlled his Collector followers. Husks are husks and all of them are indoctrinated.KingZayd wrote...
False. The collectors are the remants of indoctrinated Protheans. They are Organic mixed with synthetic parts, and cloned. They, the Keepers, and all the different varieties of husks, (and the Reapers themselves) are actually foreshadowing of the horror of Reaper synthesis.
Modifié par KingZayd, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:43 .
Reth Shepherd wrote...
Bioware is free to take their story anywhere they please. They are NOT free to consider my dollars automatically theirs. When they start producing stuff that isn't crap, I'll start supporting them again.
daecath wrote...
Yep. Every one of their SP DLC will be chock full of star-brat goodness. You call it "retroactively foreshadowing". I call it a desperate attempt to try and convince us that the s**ty ending isn't really bad. We're talking 5$-hooker-desperate. At some point there will be a DLC that's just 90 minutes of Casey Hudson crying and begging us to like the ending.
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