100 réponses à ce sujet

[Zero132132]

Nice work, OP. So if I'm reading this right, with warp and throw at 6, both spec'd for Detonate and warp spec'd for Expose, I get 100 (base) * 2.5 (level 12 combo)*3.375 (gold scaling)*1.5 (detonate) *1.5 (detonate) * 2 (armor multiplier) * 1.15 (expose) = 4366.40625 damage to armor on gold? Does the 2x multiplier on armor apply to the splash damage as well, or only to the Atlas/Brute/Banshee? It always felt like enemies started dying around the Atlas once its shields were down more than before that, but it's hard to judge when things are happening quickly.

[peddroelm]

xabkish wrote...

Great job!

The fact that Expose affect BEs makes me wonder if Proxy mine debuff affects power combos as well. Do you plan on testing it?

Expose doesn't affect the damage the BE produces ...Bystanders will take normal BE damage .. But the detonated target its under the effect of warp debuff .. So damage applied to it alone will get the *1.15 ...

The 20% proximity mine area debuff - specifically states all sources ... While not specifically tested for combos yet I'm pretty sure targets debuffed with proximity mine will get extra damage from the combo explosions .. 

All debuffs should work the same ...And of course will test ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 10 septembre 2012 - 02:02 .

[Emerald_Phoenix]

Nice post OP. I will add this spreadsheet to my Google Docs thread.

[xabkish]

corlist wrote...

xabkish wrote...

Great job!

The fact that Expose affect BEs makes me wonder if Proxy mine debuff affects power combos as well. Do you plan on testing it?

Ah. Good point. I hope no one else comes and mentions that we should test it with tactical scan, justicar bubble, cryo blast, snap freeze, annihilation field and stasis vulnerability.

Ha-ha. There's another interesting question: does Expose (or Bubble, AF and Stasis for that matter) works all the time (i.e. even if Warp isn't a part of said BE) or only for BEs that use said Warp.

E.g. do I get the Expose bonus if I use Warp, and then some fancy Fury «overwrites» it with Dark Channel and it gets detonated with Throw?

Anyway, thanks again =)

peddroelmz wrote...

xabkish wrote...

Great job!

The
fact that Expose affect BEs makes me wonder if Proxy mine debuff
affects power combos as well. Do you plan on testing it?

Expose
doesn't affect the damage the BE produces ...Bystanders will take
normal BE damage .. But the detonated target its under the effect of
warp debuff .. So damage applied to it alone will get the *1.15 ...

The
20% proximity mine area debuff - specifically states all sources ...
While not specifically tested for combos yet I'm pretty sure targets
debuffed with proximity mine will get extra damage from the combo
explosions .. 

All debuffs should work the same ...And of course will test ...

Ah, I see. That should answer my «another interesting question», I guess. And I look forward to see the result of Proxy tests

Modifié par xabkish, 10 septembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Zero132132]

Is the 50% radius boost mentioned in Warp's detonate deal legit? I guess that would be harder to test, but I've always had a slight fear that that was actually bugged. No idea if people have tested it, but I know plenty of other odd **** hasn't worked right.

[corlist]

Zero132132 wrote...

Nice work, OP. So if I'm reading this right, with warp and throw at 6, both spec'd for Detonate and warp spec'd for Expose, I get 100 (base) * 2.5 (level 12 combo)*3.375 (gold scaling)*1.5 (detonate) *1.5 (detonate) * 2 (armor multiplier) * 1.15 (expose) = 4366.40625 damage to armor on gold? Does the 2x multiplier on armor apply to the splash damage as well, or only to the Atlas/Brute/Banshee? It always felt like enemies started dying around the Atlas once its shields were down more than before that, but it's hard to judge when things are happening quickly.

The specific defence multipliers (like BE 2x armor) are applied on a per target basis. So Mr Gold Brute who was hit by a BE will take 4366.40625 as you calculated. Mr Gold Husk next to the him will take (4366.40625 / 1.15 [because it was not warp-exposed]) / 2 [because health]) = 1898.4375 damage.

[Emerald_Phoenix]

Corlist I would recommend signing your name somewhere on the google doc you created.

[Miniditka77]

xabkish wrote...

Ha-ha. There's another interesting question: does Expose (or Bubble, AF and Stasis for that matter) works all the time (i.e. even if Warp isn't a part of said BE) or only for BEs that use said Warp.

E.g. do I get the Expose bonus if I use Warp, and then some fancy Fury «overwrites» it with Dark Channel and it gets detonated with Throw?

Anyway, thanks again =)

I don't think a Fury can "overwrite" a Warp with DC - that combination would cause an explosion.  I'm pretty sure the "Expose" debuff has a time limit, and applies to everything that happens to the target in that time, even if the Warp has been removed (like by setting off an explosion), but I guess I've never seen it confirmed.

What I would be interested in is whether the Expose evolution affects BEs (or actually any other kind of explosions) when Warp is used as the detonator, rather than the primer.

[corlist]

Miniditka77 wrote...

xabkish wrote...

Ha-ha. There's another interesting question: does Expose (or Bubble, AF and Stasis for that matter) works all the time (i.e. even if Warp isn't a part of said BE) or only for BEs that use said Warp.

E.g. do I get the Expose bonus if I use Warp, and then some fancy Fury «overwrites» it with Dark Channel and it gets detonated with Throw?

Anyway, thanks again =)

I don't think a Fury can "overwrite" a Warp with DC - that combination would cause an explosion.  I'm pretty sure the "Expose" debuff has a time limit, and applies to everything that happens to the target in that time, even if the Warp has been removed (like by setting off an explosion), but I guess I've never seen it confirmed.

What I would be interested in is whether the Expose evolution affects BEs (or actually any other kind of explosions) when Warp is used as the detonator, rather than the primer.

Uh DC cannot trigger BEs...
On the other hand, whether the effect of expose will be removed due to BEs is probably worth testing

[MaxShine]

Well done !

[BjornDaDwarf]

This is incredible! Well done, indeed!

[rmccowen]

Bookmarked. This is really valuable information; I can't thank you enough.

[Stahlhammer]

corlist wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

I respecced HSent to max the cooldown on everything for more BE, and what i'm interested in now is DPS it can put out compared to reload cancelling/AR abusing HSol. I know there are too many variables here but anyway... 

Difficulty? I'd always enjoy a nice math exercise.

*edit* You might as well throw out your desired weapon/build/amps/gear, for both of these classes.

As i said it would have way too many variables but still if you're bored
HSol  narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#10QAMPRT9@0ME@@O4N4@0@0
vs
HSent narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#30DRPIR`4@0HE@@[4U4@0@0
On gold, against Atlas as the most durable enemy, no ammo/weapon/armor consumables, just gear. 
PS Ergonomics 5 gear doesn't show cooldown reduction for some reason :S 

Modifié par Stahlhammer, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[peddroelm]

Stahlhammer wrote...

On gold, against Atlas as the most durable enemy, no ammo/weapon/armor consumables, just gear. 

Due to the canopy double hit bug - atlas is not the most durable enemy (also makes atlas a terible test subject as bioware efforts to fix the bug make is so it doesn't always manfests itself) ...Banshee is the most durable gold enemy (even if it has less HP)... 

[Stahlhammer]

peddroelmz wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

On gold, against Atlas as the most durable enemy, no ammo/weapon/armor consumables, just gear. 

Due to the canopy double hit bug - atlas is not the most durable enemy (also makes atlas a terible test subject as bioware efforts to fix the bug make is so it doesn't always manfests itself) ...Banshee is the most durable gold enemy (even if it has less HP)... 

Does it occur even when not using shredder mod/AP ammo? 

[peddroelm]

Stahlhammer wrote...

Does it occur even when not using shredder mod/AP ammo? 

For the few weapons with natural cover piercing capabilities .. (javelin, widow, BW, typhoon, crusader) ... 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Eelectrica]

Human sentinal with tech armour power bonuses warp throwing things on platinum would be god like I'd imagine.
Especially given how plat basically boss hoard mode. Or it least so it seems from the vids. I don't plan on trying anytime soon. lol.

[Stahlhammer]

Eelectrica wrote...

Human sentinal with tech armour power bonuses warp throwing things on platinum would be god like I'd imagine.
Especially given how plat basically boss hoard mode. Or it least so it seems from the vids. I don't plan on trying anytime soon. lol.

Sadly, the TA bonus power damage in no way affects BE 

[Rokayt]

I was mostly right in my guess as to how it works (Regarding the 15% bonus per power level.)

That the damage was per difficulty, and not per enemy... Is a little saddening.

[Poison_Berrie]

I applaud your work here. Finally we see how this really works.

Something did stick out for me, though.

corlist wrote...

------------------------------
Gold Cannibal
------------------------------

Overload 1 + Incinerate 1 (TB)
2025 - 1214.5 = 810.5

Overload 1
220 * 0.5 = 110

Incinerate 1
330 * 1.1 = 363

810.5 - 110 - 363 = 337.5

Does that mean that Incinerate has a 10% multiplier for health damage?

[corlist]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

I applaud your work here. Finally we see how this really works.

Something did stick out for me, though.

corlist wrote...

------------------------------
Gold Cannibal
------------------------------

Overload 1 + Incinerate 1 (TB)
2025 - 1214.5 = 810.5

Overload 1
220 * 0.5 = 110

Incinerate 1
330 * 1.1 = 363

810.5 - 110 - 363 = 337.5

Does that mean that Incinerate has a 10% multiplier for health damage?

No, I had 10% passive PD. Will update OP.

[Poison_Berrie]

corlist wrote...

No, I had 10% passive PD. Will update OP.

That should also effect the Overload, shouldn't it?

[corlist]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

corlist wrote...

No, I had 10% passive PD. Will update OP.

That should also effect the Overload, shouldn't it?

No it was someone else. I did mention doing the tests with help in the first line of OP yes?

[corlist]

Stahlhammer wrote...

As i said it would have way too many variables but still if you're bored
HSol  narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#10QAMPRT9@0ME@@O4N4@0@0
vs
HSent narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#30DRPIR`4@0HE@@[4U4@0@0
On gold, against Atlas as the most durable enemy, no ammo/weapon/armor consumables, just gear. 
PS Ergonomics 5 gear doesn't show cooldown reduction for some reason :S 

HSo:
Claymore X
60% additives

70% AR

claymore shot vs atlas armor (assuming no piercing bug/ damage plate shot)

TIme taken for 3 shots
0s: Shot 1 + Claymore ROF delay (1s) 
1s: Turn on AR  + Shot 2
2s: Claymore ROF delay (1s) + Claymore RC delay (1.04 s)
3s: Shot 3


3.04 seconds

Damage for 1 shot + 2 AR shots

((206 * 1.6) - 50) * 8 + ((206 * 2.3) - 50) * 8 * 2 = 9017.6

Average burst DPS
9017.6 / 3 = 3005.8667

HSe:
Hurricane X
10% weapon additives
55% power additives
-90% armor dr (HVB)

TA OFF

Warp Cooldown: 2.18 s
Throw Cooldown: 1.02 s

Shots between warp and throw
2.18 s - 21 shots

Damage per warped hurricane shot
(128.1 * (1 + 0.1) 
* 1.15 - 50 * ((1 - 0.9) * (1 - 0.5))) = 159.5465

Warp total damage
(387.5 * 0.75) * 2.25 + (387.5 * 0.25 * 1.15) * 2.25 = 904.5703125

Throw impact damage
50 * 1.65 = 82.5

BE damage
100 * 2.5 * 3.375 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.15 = 4366.40625

Total damage
904.5703125 + 21 * 159.5465 + 82.5 + 4366.40625 = 8703.9530625

Total time taken
~2.3 seconds

Time left (compared to 3 claymore shots)
3.04 - 2.3 = 0.71 seconds

Extra Hurricane shots (7) + Warp
7 * 
159.5465 + 375 * 2.25 * 1.15 = 2087.138

Sustained DPS
(8703.9530625 + 2087.138 ) / 3.04 = 3549.7010



Results (average burst DPS)
HSo with claymore 3 shots
3005.8667

HSe with hurricane (Warp + 21 shots + Throw + 7 shots + Warp)
3549.7010


However, you can boost your Claymore DPS by an extreme amount by using AP ammo and the piercing bug. The HSe struggles to do the same amount of DPS.

Modifié par corlist, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:33 .

[peddroelm]

corlist wrote...


...
However, you can boost your Claymore DPS by an extreme amount by using AP ammo and the piercing bug. The HSe struggles to do the same amount of DPS.

Hurricane can abuse Atlas bug too with AP ammo ...Or using incendiary + warp ....

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:25 .