360 réponses à ce sujet

[eggs on leggs]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Firstly, I would really hate to be part of the team working on DA3 (or any new game) because personally if I’ve worked hard to produce something that I’m proud of only to have it shot to pieces would be heartbreaking!

For myself, it entirely depends on how the feedback comes in. I don't expect every single person to love a game that I helped create, but when I see a well reasoned explanation for why a gamer is disappointed, I will make note.

If I see someone state that they feel my team is a bunch of yokels or (my biggest pet peeve) just outright lazy, then it can be harder to remain civil (an issue going back to my childhood... hated being called lazy).


That said, it DOES come with the territory. I really struggled with it on DAO, but I have gotten better and part of why I am engaging with the boards is to have a stronger connection so that (hopefully) I am better able to receive and deal with criticism without getting overly defensive.

That is the general gist of what I was actually trying to say but I’m not very good at getting my point across.... it always sounds great in my head but not so good when it comes out!

[PsychoBlonde]

eggs on leggs wrote...

It must be extremely difficult trying to produce a game which will satisfy the vast majority of people. I personally loved both Origins and DA2, yes there were elements of each game which niggled me but Bioware DIDN’T make the game purely for ME and it WON’T put me off buying DA3 when it comes out.

I'd just like to note that "satisfy" and "silence all criticism of" are not the same thing.  I really, truly enjoyed both DA:O and DA2, and I think that even a lot of the VOCAL critics of both games did the same.  I found both games satisfying.  I still occasionally replay both.

Did I think they were PERFECT?  No.  Do I criticize the heck out of them?  YES.  But that's more because of my love of analysis than fundamental dissatisfaction with my gaming experience thus far.

That, and I feel kind of a personal connection to these games in particular because, weirdly, like 90% of my suggestions about DA:O actually got implemented in DA2.  A lof of them weren't implemented as I might have envisioned them, but when they first announced DA2 and started listing new features, it was tempting to go on the forums, list out the posts where I'd suggested EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of those new features, and then say something like "WTF BIOWARE WHY YOU STEAL MY IDEA".

I know that's a joke--heck, simply due to the enormous (and largely worthless) bulk of my "helpful" suggestions I will NOT be surprised if the same thing happens with DA3.  (Actually, it's ALREADY HAPPENING--you know that piecemeal armor customization system they're talking about?  Yeah, I suggested something basically identical to that more than a year ago, I think maybe even before DA2 came out!  WHY YOU STEAL MY IDEA . . .    Actually, I kinda "stole" the idea from DDO.  What goes around comes around. )

But, anyway, I feel more personally involved in these games than anything else.  SO IMMA TALK ABOUT THEM.

[PsychoBlonde]

eggs on leggs wrote...

That is the general gist of what I was actually trying to say but I’m not very good at getting my point across.... it always sounds great in my head but not so good when it comes out!

You know what's a great cure for that?  PRACTICE.  After about the billionth time you wind up reformatting what you said to try and get through somebody's thick skull, you start to learn to anticipate and head off at least SOME of the wild misinterpretations and OCCASIONALLY people seem to actually COMPREHEND what you said!

It's AMAZING.

But it really does take like a billion repetitions. 

[General User]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but another thing that I think would really add to DA3 would be if the combat was a bit less... stylized than it was in DA2.

Origins had some really cool, down to earth, but still totally badass looking combat moves... but DA2?  All that jumping and twirling was a bit much.

Modifié par General User, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Allan Schumacher]

eggs on leggs wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Firstly, I would really hate to be part of the team working on DA3 (or any new game) because personally if I’ve worked hard to produce something that I’m proud of only to have it shot to pieces would be heartbreaking!

For myself, it entirely depends on how the feedback comes in. I don't expect every single person to love a game that I helped create, but when I see a well reasoned explanation for why a gamer is disappointed, I will make note.

If I see someone state that they feel my team is a bunch of yokels or (my biggest pet peeve) just outright lazy, then it can be harder to remain civil (an issue going back to my childhood... hated being called lazy).


That said, it DOES come with the territory. I really struggled with it on DAO, but I have gotten better and part of why I am engaging with the boards is to have a stronger connection so that (hopefully) I am better able to receive and deal with criticism without getting overly defensive.

That is the general gist of what I was actually trying to say but I’m not very good at getting my point across.... it always sounds great in my head but not so good when it comes out!

I think you said it fine.  I thought mine was a response to what you were saying.... hahaha.  Was just giving my perspective on the issue 

[eggs on leggs]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

eggs on leggs wrote...

That is the general gist of what I was actually trying to say but I’m not very good at getting my point across.... it always sounds great in my head but not so good when it comes out!

You know what's a great cure for that?  PRACTICE.  After about the billionth time you wind up reformatting what you said to try and get through somebody's thick skull, you start to learn to anticipate and head off at least SOME of the wild misinterpretations and OCCASIONALLY people seem to actually COMPREHEND what you said!

It's AMAZING.

But it really does take like a billion repetitions. 

I know this is off topic but I wanted to reply to PsychoBlonde....

I use to be brilliant with words but these days no matter how much practice or reformatting I do it still comes out wrong....must be my age or medication! I have no problems if I’m being light hearted or funny though

[Shadow Fox]

I just want playable elves back myself...I'll shut up about elves now.

[Dagr88]

Slower Attack speed. [AtSp]

Battle Duration = Enemies HP * Enemies Number / Attack Speed * (Skill usage/strength modifier) [I'm talking about normal encounters not bosses]

In DA2 basic attack speed (at least I think so) was dramatically increased. (+Auras, Passive skills... not to mention Haste spell) Maybe it has something to do with combos (basic attacks) looking "lazy" if AtSp is not high enough. But to maintain desirable Battle duration you have to ether:

Increase Enemies HP - if overdone might create impression that PC's party is trying to tickle enemies to death using forces of nature or enchanted weapons made from dragonbone. (Liked Status-combo skills idea/damage)

Increase Enemies Number - ... I think no explanations needed

There are several ways how to balance this whole issue without increasing HP/Number:

1. Reduce Nominal AtSp - I personally would enjoy: faster than DA:O but slower than DA2.

2. Downgrade +AtSp passive/active skills and auras or make them... less stackable.

3. Strengthen Enemies Resistances - I'm not sure to what extent it was already used in DA2, but this aspect can improve tactical part of the battles.

Modifié par Dagr88, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I think you said it fine.  I thought mine was a response to what you were saying.... hahaha.  Was just giving my perspective on the issue 

The responses from the dev team are so, SO very much appreciated.  It's nice to see you guys engage with the community, and I'm glad you have the patience to put up with us when we're being pricks   Because this way, we get to see your logic for doing what you do, and it's easier for us to provide feedback when we understand when you're coming from.

Anyway, on-topic.  I thought of one more thing I'd like to see in DA3.  One of the things I liked about DA2 was how Hawke wasn't this person who could bring peace to the world and save everybody.  S/he had very human limitations, and that was such a breath of fresh air after playing so many heroes who become god-like in badassery.  I'd like to keep that realism of scale with the protagonist of DA3.  Give me a protagonist who has significant hurdles and limitations, some of which just aren't realistic to overcome, and let me shape the protagonist in response to those struggles.

[hobbit of the shire]

- No dialogue wheel. Choices should not be vague. So many times did I click on a response and then realize it was totally opposite of what I thought it meant. Some of that good ol' NWN indicators in square brackets [sarcasm] [lying] would be great if you can't show the entire dialogue in writing.
- Either a number of voice choices or none. There is nothing worse than hating the voice of your character.
- Less ridiculous over-awesome buttons. This is fantasy but still, a little realism, please. Animations were on afterburner.
- A vast world.
- More choices.
- No companions that suddenly have a personality transplant. DA2 Anders was totally not DAA Anders, even with Justice factored in.
- LI story that's not lame. Seriously, barely any lead-up to the romance.
- Combat should require some thinking instead of button-mashing.
- Other races playable.
- Imports that work! Update a patch for DAO that fixes both DA2 and anything that might go into DA3.
- A little more companion customization would be nice. I did after-the-fact like that I wasn't fussing as much about armor and weapons as much as I did in DAO, but DA2 took all choice away.
- Loot should match the being who drops it. Animals should not drop money or heath poultices. Darkspawn have no use for money, for that mater, either.
- Mages should not look dorky. But neither should they be beefed up nor hold staves twice their weight.
- Mages should not wield staves if they are hiding the fact they are mages. Yeah, I'll just wander around Kirkwall killing things with magic and the templars won't notice, yeah.
- More more more story!
- More more more banter and dialogue with companions!
- Less with the stereotypes, please.
- Did not like the art in DA2 at all.
- Please make this a serious and mature game. I don't want to play a game written with a 10-year old in mind. TW2 was awesome, except that it had way too much male-centric sexist stuff, which as a female gamer, really pisses me off.
- I could care less about crafting and have not seen a game that does it well. So do it well or leave it out.
- Character Creator improvement. DA2 characters all look the same. In DAO, they were all unique.
- No junk loot that serves no purpose. It should at least have a story (description). Like seriously, what is the point of labelling stuff junk??? At least maike it cool junk like haha I found this funny thing that I can sell for cash. Not worn trousers! I'd rather have more money loot.
- Hidden Approval - choices may have unknown effects.
- No better stats for higher approval. Making the companion like me more shouldn't make them more powerful. Destroys RP.
- I'd rather not see a big Templar story arc.
- Caves/tunnels... ugggh! Had enough of that.
- A real Toolset! Man, I so miss some good modding tools. Bring back a new Aurora toolset.
- Less tavern-centric.
- Morrigan!!!
- Sustained effects should not be distracting.
- one shouldn't have to do all quests to get the most XP. Either some quests don't have XP or there should be about an equal number of quests for all types of characters. e.g., evil selfish character, no I'm not going to do that little fetch quest for poor little Timmy. Choosing one closes another. In DAO, in order to get more XP, my anti-Chantry mage should help the Chantry/Templars. I need an opposite quest.

[Lord Issa]

I really hope that BW are paying attention to threads like this (not just answering them, but genuinely considering implementing the ideas contained within). Here are a few suggestions from me.

-Toolset, please, please, please. The Dragon Age Nexus remains updated to this day, even though DA2 had no toolset. Mods such as Quests & Legends and Ser Gilmore make this game so much better.

-Darkspawn reverted. I don't mind most of DA2's art, but he new Darkspawn are universally despised.

-The return of arcane warrior. Yeah, I just love Arcane Warriors. >_>

-Better LI's. I feel embarrassed admitting this, but I do occasionally enjoy romance arcs in Bioware games. I just would appreciate a love interest who isn't incredibly promiscuous or immature. (while I actually really enjoyed Merrill and Isabela as characters, I really couldn't imagine romancing either of them)

I love Bioware, and I really hope they can pull through. I don't think I'm asking too much, but that's for them to judge after all.

[eroeru]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

eggs on leggs wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Firstly, I would really hate to be part of the team working on DA3 (or any new game) because personally if I’ve worked hard to produce something that I’m proud of only to have it shot to pieces would be heartbreaking!

For myself, it entirely depends on how the feedback comes in. I don't expect every single person to love a game that I helped create, but when I see a well reasoned explanation for why a gamer is disappointed, I will make note.

If I see someone state that they feel my team is a bunch of yokels or (my biggest pet peeve) just outright lazy, then it can be harder to remain civil (an issue going back to my childhood... hated being called lazy).


That said, it DOES come with the territory. I really struggled with it on DAO, but I have gotten better and part of why I am engaging with the boards is to have a stronger connection so that (hopefully) I am better able to receive and deal with criticism without getting overly defensive.

That is the general gist of what I was actually trying to say but I’m not very good at getting my point across.... it always sounds great in my head but not so good when it comes out!

I think you said it fine.  I thought mine was a response to what you were saying.... hahaha.  Was just giving my perspective on the issue 

Will try to hold back on that front. I think it's a pet peeve for a good reason.

Sorry? 

Modifié par eroeru, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:40 .

[Lord Issa]

I just want to add one more MAJOR point: make romances actually mean something beyond a sex scene. Expand dialogue, make it more like getting to know them than trying to get into their pants.

[Allan Schumacher]

eroeru wrote...

Will try to hold back on that front. I think it's a pet peeve for a good reason.

Sorry? 

I can understand why someone might say it.  Personally, I'm much more okay with "the thing you made was crap!" lol.  It's valid to not like the decisions we made.

It's okay though I just got 2000xp with my VK 3001 in World of Tanks so I'm in a good mood

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:22 .

[eroeru]

 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Firstly, I would really hate to be part of the team working on DA3 (or any new game) because personally if I’ve worked hard to produce something that I’m proud of only to have it shot to pieces would be heartbreaking!

For myself, it entirely depends on how the feedback comes in. I don't expect every single person to love a game that I helped create, but when I see a well reasoned explanation for why a gamer is disappointed, I will make note.

If I see someone state that they feel my team is a bunch of yokels or (my biggest pet peeve) just outright lazy, then it can be harder to remain civil (an issue going back to my childhood... hated being called lazy).

That said, it DOES come with the territory. I really struggled with it on DAO, but I have gotten better and part of why I am engaging with the boards is to have a stronger connection so that (hopefully) I am better able to receive and deal with criticism without getting overly defensive.

I think that may have to do with working in isolation. If you work for several years on a project that only gets feedback from a limited group, i.e. colleages, then chances are that you cannot connect to external feedback, because in those years you are convinced that you have done the right thing: You've never heard that feedback, so it must be wrong and one gets defensive.

[Mike3207]

Resolution of storyline issues. Specifically, bring back the Warden and Hawke from the Twilight Zone-resolve what has happened to them. If they are dead, explain how they died. If they are alive, explain what is being done to rescue them. It's a non-starter for me if DA3 totally ignores them.

Same with Morrigan-there was a Dark Ritual(or not). For people that did the ritual, follow that path. For those that chose not to participate, follow up on what Morrigan is doing now.

It's all about the storyline issues with me. If Bioware addresses them, I'll buy DA3. If not, I can always read DA fanfiction.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
There is a saying of action speaks louder than words, and to me the way DA2 sold less than DAO says that Bioware went in the wrong direction in trying to appeal to the masses.

Personally, I wish fans would stay away from trying to bring economics into their arguments. Because most of you suck at it, and muddy your own arguments by doing so.

You want to talk economics? Then talk about profit. Talk about how other games are selling, instead of ignoring them like they don't exist. If you don't, then you make it plainly obvious you're only paying attention to the part of the data that supports your own agenda, the very thing you're accusing the industry of doing. Or that you're treating this argument as valid only when it appears to support your stance-- because I'm certain nobody who talks about these figures also brings up games they think were high-quality but didn't sell or games they think were low-quality but sold gangbusters, and how there can be a lot of reasons why each of these things occur.

Talk instead about why you like a game and would like to see more games like it. That, at least, is a subject on which a fan can speak with authority.

It's always fun to see you go into debate mode, D-Gai. You always kill.

Besides, sales don't really determine how good a game is anyway. Advertise enough and even a bad game will sell well. Konami's Suikoden V, I believe, sold the least amount of copies of its series, but I've seen it widely regarded as one of the best games in the series. An opinion I share.

So profit isn't everything. I enjoyed Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. And a bunch of forum trolls cant tell me otherwise.

[eroeru]

It can possible determine the quality of a game, at least in part.Legendary games have better sales - this is because of the promo done by fans who fall in love with the game. 
Metal Gear Solid series, Morrowind, Half-Lifes, Starcraft, Myst, Morrowind. All great and legendary games.
And the ones I didn't mention are also top notch - only that they're in their own genre. They don't try to go astray.

[WhiteKnyght]

It just determines sales records. All the games you pointed out are mainstream titles which always have a lot of advertisement.

Also you said Morrowind twice.

Not to mention, it's a considerable investment laying down $60 for a new game. The first-day buyers of DAII and ME3 that hated them arguably spooked a lot of people out of buying the game. Which is unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

[ianvillan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It just determines sales records. All the games you pointed out are mainstream titles which always have a lot of advertisement.

Also you said Morrowind twice.

Not to mention, it's a considerable investment laying down $60 for a new game. The first-day buyers of DAII and ME3 that hated them arguably spooked a lot of people out of buying the game. Which is unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

DA2 was a mainstream title that had a lot of advertisment.

$60 is a considerable investment to lay down, but what would you say about the first-day buyers of DAO that loved the game and convinced a lot of people into buying the game by word of mouth. Is that also unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

Why is it when people play a game and dont like it they should keep quiet and not tell anyone, but if you like a game you should tell other people to get it.

Modifié par ianvillan, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[WhiteKnyght]

ianvillan wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It just determines sales records. All the games you pointed out are mainstream titles which always have a lot of advertisement.

Also you said Morrowind twice.

Not to mention, it's a considerable investment laying down $60 for a new game. The first-day buyers of DAII and ME3 that hated them arguably spooked a lot of people out of buying the game. Which is unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

DA2 was a mainstream title that had a lot of advertisment.

$60 is a considerable investment to lay down, but what would you say about the first-day buyers od DAO that loved the game and convinced a lot of people into buying the game by word of mouth. Is that also unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

Why is it when people play a game and dont like it they should keep quiet and not tell anyone, but if you like a game you should tell other people to get it.

I didn't say you should do the opposite either. Thank you for proving the other half of my point that sales don't equal success or failure. Biased opinions can send them one way or the other.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:02 .

[Askia32]

-A romance-able character that is not in the party, but still appears regularly. I think this would bring a lot of "good story" potential. Depending on if the protagonist romances her/him or not, or if they break up with her/him, it will change the dynamics of the characters appearances.

-A little more conflict/camaraderie in the team. I thought DA2 took some good steps with this, but I think it should be pushed more. Show a couple of teammates in a little skirmish. On the other side, show them hanging out more. Not just one person visiting another, but more like 3-4 hanging out together. Maybe even show the entire group eating together or something. Let us feel that its a tight-knit group this time, so if something ever damaged those bonds, the audience would feel it a lot more.

I thought the combat was far superior in DA2, but a couple things need to be fixed.
-Mobs should not just keep appearing out of thin air. This got old really fast.

-Make the game more difficult. The last boss should be the most difficult in the game, not the easiest.

-If there is some type of war or huge battle, let us be in the middle of it fighting instead of going around. I know this would be hard to pull off, but it would be epic.

[ianvillan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It just determines sales records. All the games you pointed out are mainstream titles which always have a lot of advertisement.

Also you said Morrowind twice.

Not to mention, it's a considerable investment laying down $60 for a new game. The first-day buyers of DAII and ME3 that hated them arguably spooked a lot of people out of buying the game. Which is unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

DA2 was a mainstream title that had a lot of advertisment.

$60 is a considerable investment to lay down, but what would you say about the first-day buyers od DAO that loved the game and convinced a lot of people into buying the game by word of mouth. Is that also unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

Why is it when people play a game and dont like it they should keep quiet and not tell anyone, but if you like a game you should tell other people to get it.

I didn't say you should do the opposite either. Thank you for proving the other half of my point that sales don't equal success or failure. Biased opinions can send them one way or the other.

Sale do equal success or failiure, as you your self pointed out you could make the best game everb but if it doesn't sell it is a failiure and you could make a terrible game but if it sells lots it is a success.

Bioware changed the game to appeal to a new audience they wanted mass market appeal which is high sales compared to Origins, now whether you believe DA2 was a better game than Origins but upset fans ruined its sales or a subpar game that spoke for itself, DA2 did not attract the mass fans Bioware wanted so the new direction they took was a failiure.

[WhiteKnyght]

ianvillan wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It just determines sales records. All the games you pointed out are mainstream titles which always have a lot of advertisement.

Also you said Morrowind twice.

Not to mention, it's a considerable investment laying down $60 for a new game. The first-day buyers of DAII and ME3 that hated them arguably spooked a lot of people out of buying the game. Which is unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

DA2 was a mainstream title that had a lot of advertisment.

$60 is a considerable investment to lay down, but what would you say about the first-day buyers od DAO that loved the game and convinced a lot of people into buying the game by word of mouth. Is that also unfair, because they deserve to play the game and decide for themselves.

Why is it when people play a game and dont like it they should keep quiet and not tell anyone, but if you like a game you should tell other people to get it.

I didn't say you should do the opposite either. Thank you for proving the other half of my point that sales don't equal success or failure. Biased opinions can send them one way or the other.

Sale do equal success or failiure, as you your self pointed out you could make the best game everb but if it doesn't sell it is a failiure and you could make a terrible game but if it sells lots it is a success.

Bioware changed the game to appeal to a new audience they wanted mass market appeal which is high sales compared to Origins, now whether you believe DA2 was a better game than Origins but upset fans ruined its sales or a subpar game that spoke for itself, DA2 did not attract the mass fans Bioware wanted so the new direction they took was a failiure.

Maybe to the money grubbing suits that run the corporation, but the developers themselves seem wholly satisfied with Dragon Age II.