Anders is not insane (particularly if he's in harmony with Justice). He's a revolutionary, and he acts like a revolutionary with a conscience would act, attacking the central authority and greatest visible symbol of his enemy as a soft target, attempting to do so with the least amount of collateral loss of life possible (which he can tell you if you don't freak at him). His goal isn't murder. It's to break the stalemate that's resulted in a millenium of slavery, by drawing his enemy into direct and public conflict, while also demonstrating that his enemy, the enemy of mages in general, is truly the organized Chantry, not simply the Templars.
Anders is not even out of character in playthrough. He's murdered before by my count, the original templars when you recruit him in DA:A. That Anders in that playthrough, for me, was even a self acknowledged blood mage in DA:A, acknowledged in dialogue when the spec had been chosen, during the phylactory dialogues. It made story sense to me he'd no longer be one, since Justice's merger with him would preclude any demonically learned and favored magic.
My warrior Hawke agreed with this stance as things went along and sought to help him along every oppurtunity he got, but he also reacted with anger at Elthina's death. He had a positive personal relationship with her. Anders basically came back with some version of 'You aren't that naive, and you supported this. There are costs, and I'm willing to die in order to end this slavery' (paraphrased, of course).
And my Hawke relented, and agreed. My Hawke went to Elthina prior to the bombing, after all, and multiple times over the years, and Elthina never once relented on her support of the oppression of mages by the Chantry, local or otherwise, never once back away from her role as mostly an apologist for all the blatant and heinous crimes against mages in her city. She only continued to support the facade of peace. In her case, it was never the crime, but the cover-up. Her sin was the sin of omission. While my Hawke was personally fond of her, he also recognized that she had tacitly chosen her side in a war that was at the boiling point, the powder keg only needing a light, and her death, while tragic, could not reasonably be avoided absent her own choice. Likewise, Sebastian, in directly announcing his intention to sack the city once he'd regained his title, simply for sparing Anders, had chosen his side, friend though he might be.
My Hawke is Andrastian, but he also sees the Chantry and mage situation for what it is, the oppressed (conquered of the Tevinter Empire) becoming the oppressors (the Orlesian Empire and it's arm The Chantry, and it's equally oppressive coin flipside under the Black Divine in Tevinter). And my warrior Hawke, who grew up protecting his sister, honoring his father, and hiding from Chantry influence while all the while retaining his Andrastian faith he was born into, and who then loved a Dalish mage (Merrill), saw the official Chantry for the oppressive institution it was, and outright opposed all manor of oppression, overt or however subtle. Thus the cause was just and the war necessary, just like Ferelden's revolution against Orlais was also just and necessary.
Speaking outside the game, the Chantry is very much like the Catholic church yes, but not today's religious institution, moreso the Holy Roman church that came out of the Dark Ages, as the last arm of power of the Roman Empire, which for centuries maintained its authority over all manor of kingships and republics that sprung from its ashes, with its armies, its assassinations, and its campaigns of fear and forced conversion. As that church for centuries was an oppressive state religion designed to reinforce and maintain every last vestige of collapsing imperial power, so is the Chantry of Thedas.
Justice, likewise, was not insane, though its fires were intensified by the personal experience of Anders once the merger was agreed to. Justice, throughout the rest of the time we know it in both DA:A and DA2, is very stark, but also very accurate in its judgements, though it expresses many times uncertainty of the correct application of its avatar virtue. When should it kill, and when should it merely scold or begrudgingly overlook its purpose? That's why Justice will allow the execution of Anders at the end. It was surely a sin to directly cause the death of Elthina, through application of a just cause, but was it worthy of execution? Justice decided to leave it up to Hawke and the others right along with Anders, because it couldn't decide. It has no self preservation instinct, as its death would merely send it back to the fade. It only seeks the fair application of Justice.
That's why I'm not exactly sure, and wasn't exactly sure at the time, what was happening with Ella (was that her name? don't remember). There was the apparent situation, and I saved her, but her response along with Justice's, while it could be simply terror on her part, could also mean that she was guilty of attempting a ruse and ambush. And that's how it seemed to me following the whole thing as I left that scene. Thus she was actually guilty as an accomplice, and was never a victim, and the fact that Justice was talked down could very well mean that he was open as to whether her sin was worthy of equal punishment applied to her conspirators.
Of course, it could also be that she was truly a victim, and was truly just acting out of repeated shock, but the other possibility seems far more likely given that Justice never got it wrong anywhere else. It may overreact, but it was never outright mistaken. With Justice, there's never a question whether a sin had occurred, merely what the appropriate measure of retribution should be. Minor infractions are worthy of minor response, great evils worthy of outright destruction (such as the oppression of mages for more than a millenium). Where Justice becomes Vengeance, only that measure of appropriate response is in question.
So my response to the original thread question is: Never. I'm not convinced Justice was incorrect, therefore there is no original sin. It's just a question of overstepping the bounds of Justice into Vengeance, or not.
Modifié par cindercatz, 17 septembre 2012 - 12:18 .
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