14 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

While Dragon Age: Origins was a better game than Dragon Age 2, I feel that Dragon Age 2 had the better story.   No, I'm not say that DAO had a bad story in any way, shape, or form.  It was sweeping and epic, but also somewhat distant from the point of view of the player character.  Your actions affected the largely faceless populace Ferelden and Thedas.  With DA2, the story was intimate and personal, your family and friends being the ones most affected by your actions.

A common complaint leveled at DA2 is the lack of player agency in affecting the events taking place in the city of Kirkwall.  However, I think the player did have quite a lot of agency over Hawke's friends and family.  Simply by choosing a class, I chose whether it would be Carver or Bethany who would make it to Kirkwall.  When It came time to choose who to take into the Deep Roads at the end of Act I, it was my actions that would determine if my surviving sibling became a Templar, a Circle Mage, a Grey Warden, or a corpse.

Through the excelent Friendship/Rivalry system implemented in DA2, I had a direct effect on the character development of my companions.  You could have Isabela either becoming more responsible, or becoming even more liberated.  You could lead Sebastian into becoming a man of faith, or a prince seeking power. And with the exception of Varric and Sebastain, it was you and the relationships that you forged with your companions that  determined if they survived the events of the game.

Now based on what hints that have been thrown our way, it's safe to assume that the next iteration of the Dragon Age series will have a more epice scope.  This is fine, an epic story do not exclude personal narratives.  Baldur's Gate had an epic story, but at it's core, the story was still fundamentally about the player character coming to grips with who they were.  

So I ask the developers and writers and Bioware to make sure that however epic the story they are crafting becomes, that it does not lose its peronal touch.  It's the personal touch  that hooks the player at the start, and make them care about the events that happend around them, however great or small they may be.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 10 septembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

Actually, Sebastian's stuck being a man of faith regardless, you just get to choose his power level.

I agree with you on the personal touch, but I've come to slightly desire some more diverse options for choosing player origins; at least being able to choose an elf PC as well as a human one.

[MichaelStuart]

Can't say that I would like a personal story.
If it is personal. I would like the option to do other non-personal stuff.

[Iosev]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age are some of the few franchises that make you feel as if you're experiencing a story alongside a group of companions, so I also hope that the next DA game retains a large degree of personal emphasis. At least for me, being able to argue and encourage companions to rethink their worldviews is much more interesting than deciding which person sits on a throne.

[Renmiri1]

arcelonious wrote...

Mass Effect and Dragon Age are some of the few franchises that make you feel as if you're experiencing a story alongside a group of companions, so I also hope that the next DA game retains a large degree of personal emphasis. At least for me, being able to argue and encourage companions to rethink their worldviews is much more interesting than deciding which person sits on a throne.

+100

[Sabriana]

It can be both. To me, my Wardens all had a personal stake in all of this. Hawke on the other hand.... I'm sorry to say that her story was singularly boring and uninteresting to me, personally. I loathe her inability to be active instead of reactive. Not only was she reactive, she was singularly bad at it.

Besides, her twiddling her thumbs and her inability to change anything major led to a Thedas-wide turmoil, where *all* the mages and *all* the templars are in a terrible conflict. Toss the Chantry into it, and pull all the non-andastrian nations into the fray as well. I mean heck, nations that are emboiled in a mage/templar/chantry all out war are easy prey.

Instead of her intervening and then have factions that are mage/templar trying to reach a peaceful end, factions that thrive on anarchy, Tevinter butting in left and right, chantry/mage co-ops, templar/chantry co-ops, all you have now is an all out rabid fight were all of Thedas is thrown into a huge mess.

[hitorihanzo]

I honestly hope BW avoids these forums, and all of these requests altogether. I think that half of the problems with games as of late is that game devs are using online forums as focus groups, and designing around those requests instead of making the games they want to make.

[EricHVela]

hitorihanzo wrote...

I honestly hope BW avoids these forums, and all of these requests altogether. I think that half of the problems with games as of late is that game devs are using online forums as focus groups, and designing around those requests instead of making the games they want to make.

That's one assumption, but if one also actually looks at many of the requests before the recent releases instead of parroting what someone said elsewhere in the forums, it seems obvious to me that they took what players requested with a grain of salt.

Do you have something constructive to add to the topic at hand or just ranting in general off-topic?


A "personal" story doesn't necessarily mean the character becomes well-known in all corners of the Universe. As personal stories go, they deal with the person over their surroundings. Just because Hawke is the focus of the people in Kirkwall and just because Hawke affects Kirkwall's course doesn't mean it's a more personal story.

To some, a personal story involves the details of building a character of their own -- where they outlined the characteristics of their character, where those characteristics (that they feel) that they designed affect the way the fantasy world sees their character. Hawke fits that much less than the Hero of Ferelden does.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 10 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[babymoon]

hitorihanzo wrote...

I think that half of the problems with games as of late is that game devs are using online forums as focus groups, and designing around those requests instead of making the games they want to make.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Bioware is on a slippery slope. I mean, just look at the Mass Effect controversy.

Although I do think it's good to take some things into account that the fans would like to see, they still need to make the games that they want to make. And by promising things, and encouraging fan feedback, it's just recipe for disaster.

Off-topic sorry

Modifié par babymoon, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[hitorihanzo]

ReggarBlane wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

I honestly hope BW avoids these forums, and all of these requests altogether. I think that half of the problems with games as of late is that game devs are using online forums as focus groups, and designing around those requests instead of making the games they want to make.

That's one assumption, but if one also actually looks at many of the requests before the recent releases instead of parroting what someone said elsewhere in the forums, it seems obvious to me that they took what players requested with a grain of salt.

Do you have something constructive to add to the topic at hand or just ranting in general off-topic.

It is simply your opinion that what I added was not constructive, and the only reason you think that is because I completely disagree with your own opinion. I didn't tell you not to post your own opinion, I simply stated that I hoped BW disregards it, because IMO, and my opinion only, MOST of the requests here on BSN (the OP's included) would make AWFUL video games. Good books? Sure. But a lot of people, myself included, felt that one of the big problems with Hawke was that, as a character, he was a nobody. He/ she didn't effect change, rather got caught up in it.  If this were a novel, or movie, then that's ok. But it made for a lackluster game, IMO.  

[Garrus94]

Renmiri1 wrote...

arcelonious wrote...

Mass Effect and Dragon Age are some of the few franchises that make you feel as if you're experiencing a story alongside a group of companions, so I also hope that the next DA game retains a large degree of personal emphasis. At least for me, being able to argue and encourage companions to rethink their worldviews is much more interesting than deciding which person sits on a throne.

+100

While I sort of agree we could convince Alistar to enjoy being a king, so I would argue origins presented the best of both worlds. 

[dragonflight288]

I don't mind having an epic story, but I would like to see more protagonist development or personal friendships outside of the npc's in the party. Let the hero have a specific goal and work to get it. They don't really have to succeed, as they may get caught up in an epic struggle they wanted nothing to do with at the beginning, but allow them to have a clear-cut goal, take proactive steps to achieve it, and not always succeed.

I would like more of the dark mature themes from origins. I don't need things explicitly shown, but a great example of what I'm thinking of is the dwarves of Orzammar and the Anvil of the Void.

Playing as a dwarven noble, you know that the dwarves are losing the war. You are completely aware that golems are the best bet for the survival of Orzammar. If you destroy the Anvil, you are putting a lot of faith in the dwarves to get over their political infighting and traditions so they can face the darkspawn.

They're more likely to go extinct than for that to happen.

And then there's the whole deal between Harrowmont and Bhelen. Harrowmont is the nice guy, really likeable, and whenever I play as a dwarven noble, I can't help but want to destroy Bhelen for what he does. Harrowmont is literally one of the only people who is willing to stand by us.

But Bhelen is the strongest and most qualified person for the job. He'll provide all the necessary changes for fighting the darkspawn and removing the caste inequality that tradition absolutely demands. Harrowmont allows those injustices to continue because of tradition.

It's like, for the good of the country, I must choose my brother who committed fratricide, framed me for it, had me sent to my death (supposedly) all for his chance to take the throne, or for the sake of honor, almost doom my people so the real criminal would be accountable for his crimes. If I side with Bhelen, he gets away with what he does.

And if I side with Branka and keep the Anvil, I know it's going to be abused, whether by Branka or by Bhelen. And if I destroy it, I'm borderline condemning my people to a very slow death against the darkspawn.

I would like to see more of such problems in the future games. It'll make for many lively and friendly (or not so friendly) debates.

[Todd23]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I don't mind having an epic story, but I would like to see more protagonist development or personal friendships outside of the npc's in the party. Let the hero have a specific goal and work to get it. They don't really have to succeed, as they may get caught up in an epic struggle they wanted nothing to do with at the beginning, but allow them to have a clear-cut goal, take proactive steps to achieve it, and not always succeed.

I would like more of the dark mature themes from origins. I don't need things explicitly shown, but a great example of what I'm thinking of is the dwarves of Orzammar and the Anvil of the Void.

Playing as a dwarven noble, you know that the dwarves are losing the war. You are completely aware that golems are the best bet for the survival of Orzammar. If you destroy the Anvil, you are putting a lot of faith in the dwarves to get over their political infighting and traditions so they can face the darkspawn.

They're more likely to go extinct than for that to happen.

And then there's the whole deal between Harrowmont and Bhelen. Harrowmont is the nice guy, really likeable, and whenever I play as a dwarven noble, I can't help but want to destroy Bhelen for what he does. Harrowmont is literally one of the only people who is willing to stand by us.

But Bhelen is the strongest and most qualified person for the job. He'll provide all the necessary changes for fighting the darkspawn and removing the caste inequality that tradition absolutely demands. Harrowmont allows those injustices to continue because of tradition.

It's like, for the good of the country, I must choose my brother who committed fratricide, framed me for it, had me sent to my death (supposedly) all for his chance to take the throne, or for the sake of honor, almost doom my people so the real criminal would be accountable for his crimes. If I side with Bhelen, he gets away with what he does.

And if I side with Branka and keep the Anvil, I know it's going to be abused, whether by Branka or by Bhelen. And if I destroy it, I'm borderline condemning my people to a very slow death against the darkspawn.

I would like to see more of such problems in the future games. It'll make for many lively and friendly (or not so friendly) debates.

What he said.

[Sabriana]

dragonflight288 wrote...

a lot of real great stuff

(snipped to avoid those pesky quote pyramids)

 

I never played a dwarf yet (yes, I am ashamed. Yes, I am in the process of rectifying it. My dwarf commoner is a girl to be reckoned with), but I love Orzammar. It is still great, and I still enjoy the really great moments.

I'll never forget the absolute creepy goosebumps I got from Hespith and the Brood-Mother. Heck, after all these play-throughs and the countless started games, I still shed a tear for Ruck and his mother.

Good stuff, yes, absolutely!

[dragonflight288]

Sabriana wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

a lot of real great stuff

(snipped to avoid those pesky quote pyramids)

 

I never played a dwarf yet (yes, I am ashamed. Yes, I am in the process of rectifying it. My dwarf commoner is a girl to be reckoned with), but I love Orzammar. It is still great, and I still enjoy the really great moments.

I'll never forget the absolute creepy goosebumps I got from Hespith and the Brood-Mother. Heck, after all these play-throughs and the countless started games, I still shed a tear for Ruck and his mother.

Good stuff, yes, absolutely!

Ah, you enjoy what I've said. The little heart emoticon has my heart al aflutter.

Now I may put on a dress and dance the Remigold for the darkspawn. That way I can defend Orzammar by cutting them down while they're rolling around laughing.