91 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...
Or, to put it in an even simpler way, make a good, competent character, then decide their traits, personalities, tics, build, appearance, ect. around the build, not the other way around.

(Unorthodox isn't a bad thing, though - as long as you make it work. My FQI comes to mind)

That's what I do. Being that I run most of the spreadsheets and run a decent amount of numbers I imagine that I would be put in the "calculator player" group.

Though all of my characters still have a short backstory and personality that I came up for them, just because.

[N7Kopper]

Cyonan wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...
Or, to put it in an even simpler way, make a good, competent character, then decide their traits, personalities, tics, build, appearance, ect. around the build, not the other way around.

(Unorthodox isn't a bad thing, though - as long as you make it work. My FQI comes to mind)

That's what I do. Being that I run most of the spreadsheets and run a decent amount of numbers I imagine that I would be put in the "calculator player" group.

Though all of my characters still have a short backstory and personality that I came up for them, just because.

Meh, personally I would run the spreadsheets like a maniac if this game had any player vs player gameplay - as it is, the game is fun, the universe is my favourite, but it's just not worth that much crunching.

See, the inch-perfect number detailers, the well-aware-of-mechanics-but-don't-care-enough-to-crunch, and the less well-versed can get along just fine.


-I do have to add, that the numbers themselves are a fine read, and I learned a lot about the intellect of the game's AI minions - FEAR springs to mind. I just don't seek them out all the time, lest I get bored.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 10 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...
Meh, personally I would run the spreadsheets like a maniac if this game had any player vs player gameplay - as it is, the game is fun, the universe is my favourite, but it's just not worth that much crunching.

See, the inch-perfect number detailers, the well-aware-of-mechanics-but-don't-care-enough-to-crunch, and the less well-versed can get along just fine.

I actually frequently ignore the numbers, so I guess I'm a "number crunch but ignored it anyway because it isn't that important in a co-op game". I do it in every co-op game I play, except maybe MMOs where I have 24 other people relying on my numbers keeping me alive as the tank so they can not die.

I don't really know why, I just like running the numbers even if I don't necessarly use them to make the "best" setup. Of course, it would be beyond silly of me to expect that everybody is going to do the same as I have.

As long as they're trying and not sitting in a corner afk somewhere, it's all good. I've taken an N7 6 Human Soldier with Avenger II into gold with me before and got full credits. He may have scored incredibly low, but he was at least trying, he revived people when they went down and helped us with objectives.

[Zero132132]

This made me hungry...

[WRCousCous]

You Sir, are Amazing! Excellent use of Satire on Satire on... well, you get the idea. I likely fit in the 'newb' category, even though my N7 score is closer to 1000 than 20. I really suck at gold (this is the first shooterish MP game I've really played more than an hour, and I'm old). I usually consider myself a poor orphan, and don't burden others with my lack of skills in Gold.

Is there a good way to break into Gold without being a burden (other than friends, which I do not have).

[whateverman7]

WRCousCous wrote...

You Sir, are Amazing! Excellent use of Satire on Satire on... well, you get the idea. I likely fit in the 'newb' category, even though my N7 score is closer to 1000 than 20. I really suck at gold (this is the first shooterish MP game I've really played more than an hour, and I'm old). I usually consider myself a poor orphan, and don't burden others with my lack of skills in Gold.

Is there a good way to break into Gold without being a burden (other than friends, which I do not have).

only way to get good is to play it....and as long as you contribute, you arent a burden....dont let all the bsn talk about score, carrying, randoms, etc. discourage you....that's just them trying to make themselves feel better/more important by bragging about things they accomplished....

[kwndc]

Huge wall of text does NOT equal a "humble"opinion

[DragonRacer]

kwndc wrote...

Huge wall of text does NOT equal a "humble"opinion

Then you have missed the joke in the OP.

[BouncyFrag]

WRCousCous wrote...

You Sir, are Amazing! Excellent use of Satire on Satire on... well, you get the idea. I likely fit in the 'newb' category, even though my N7 score is closer to 1000 than 20. I really suck at gold (this is the first shooterish MP game I've really played more than an hour, and I'm old). I usually consider myself a poor orphan, and don't burden others with my lack of skills in Gold.

Is there a good way to break into Gold without being a burden (other than friends, which I do not have).

I started doing gold matches on FBWGG (as I'm sure others have) and then did gold matches on Firebase Giant with a ranged build (human sentinel) setting of biotic explosions and hitting baddies with a pistol. As I got better, I would experiment on different builds getting myself closer to the action so not to be a liability when things get more dicey in close quarters. In general its never a bad thing to be in the vicinity of your teammates as well. Keep at it!

[BongMong]

To an RPGer there is no such thing as a competent or incompetent build. They are all just character builds. Stating that an RPGer could/should make a 'competent' build and then design a char around it makes no sense in an RPG context. All builds are competent if they fit the role. Goal achieved.

Personally, I see ME3 as being at the conscription stage of the war, Total War style. What may be considered 'elite' by the time Earth is ripped apart is anyone who can use military weapons. Shepard's team may be elite by usual standards, the war in general (as experienced in MP) is likely to be way more varied. Hence the variety of builds available to us. Why would BW have filled the game with 'unviable' kit and chars if it's all about running with min/maxed builds all the time? Senseless.

Try min/maxing your way through NWN/NWN2 MP games and see why it gets boring quick.

[Ramsutin]

Make a TL;DR

[BongMong]

PS. Being aware of the mechanics is good. Letting such define your builds or play style is not to everyone's taste. Please remember that if nothing else and recognise what the RPG approach can bring to a game beyond the bounds of the calculator.

[N7Kopper]

BongMong wrote...

Shepard's team may be elite by usual standards, the war in general (as experienced in MP) is likely to be way more varied.

Every single multiplayer character has superior combat capabilites to Shepard's squad. Every. Single. Goddamn. One. The "henchman damage/cooldown debuff" is called henchman and not non-Shepard for a reason.
Shepard's team are mainly kept around for their off-combat capabilites, except the Virmire Survivor, who is an optional recruit anyway.

And to respond to the first paragraph: Wrong. There are distinctions between worthwile and weak, even among the roleplayer. The roleplayer, however, may sometimes deliberately gimp a character build to tell a story.

BongMong wrote...

Try min/maxing your way through NWN/NWN2 MP games and see why it gets boring quick.

That's the fault of NWN, not the minmaxers. The higher difficulty levels should provide a good challenge, even to fully tricked out builds. It's also something ME1 didn't do, with Immunity spam.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 10 septembre 2012 - 05:55 .

[ryanshowseason3]

at first I went tldr but then I realized the modest proposal reference. I still didn't read it, but now I get the joke. Still didn't laugh... But its better than 99% of the whining threads.

[Dorje Sylas]

BongMong wrote...

PS. Being aware of the mechanics is good. Letting such define your builds or play style is not to everyone's taste. Please remember that if nothing else and recognise what the RPG approach can bring to a game beyond the bounds of the calculator.

BS, this is an argument that has raged on Pen and Paper RPGs for almost three decades and if you choose to play a character out of context then it's not the game's fault or the other player's fault when things don't work out. The N7 Special Operations by SP lore is loose band of mercenarys who are good enough for the Alliance military to basically say "ya, if theses guys were in our ranks they'd have been N7 trained troops."

In the grander RP context those that were poor of skill, luck, and ability would have been killed already. Which means that "mechanically" ineffectual sniper guy would have long ago been boot off the merc drop ship or killed in action.

[DinkumGem]

Would've left out the tl:dr explanation. People either get the joke or not. Half the fun is seeing responses from people who don't understand the context.

[rmccowen]

BongMong wrote...

To an RPGer there is no such thing as a competent or incompetent build. They are all just character builds. Stating that an RPGer could/should make a 'competent' build and then design a char around it makes no sense in an RPG context. All builds are competent if they fit the role. Goal achieved.

Ever play a bard or paladin or monk in Third Edition D&D? There's no good justification for a wizard taking any of those people along with him to solve a serious problem, unless it's from a cynical desire to have some warm bodies around in case he loses initiative. (And even then, he'd have been better off with a druid, whose animal companion is cheaper to bring along and easier to replace.)

All characters are not equally competent, and in any RPG the players who claim to care the most about roleplaying are usually the first ones to break the fourth wall by insisting that their characters have a right to be part of the group regardless of how despairingly bad they are.

Personally, I see ME3 as being at the conscription stage of the war, Total War style. What may be considered 'elite' by the time Earth is ripped apart is anyone who can use military weapons.

Anyone who can hold a gun is likely being pressed into service during this phase of the Reaper War, but that doesn't make him or her a member of an elite special forces unit. There has been no point in human history where a conscript army hasn't also had well-trained, well-equipped units to accomplish critical tasks.

To bring this back around to the topic: the reason some randoms get on other players' nerves is that they're so bad. They're welcome to play whatever they want in whatever way they want, but in Gold almost every team needs to work together--and that's impossible to do when one player either doesn't understand the game or is (for whatever reason) deliberately hitting under his or her weight class.

To me, it's not about elitism, it's about courtesy and recognition of one's own limitations. (This is, among other reasons, why I don't play Platinum.)

[DragonRacer]

Ramsutin wrote...



Make a TL;DR

There is a TL; DR. Try looking at the very bottom of the OP, Sunshine.

[DragonRacer]

DinkumGem wrote...

Would've left out the tl:dr explanation. People either get the joke or not. Half the fun is seeing responses from people who don't understand the context.

I'm still having magnificent amounts of fun from the people that either didn't see/read the tl;dr or did, indeed, read it and STILL don't get the joke.

[BongMong]

If a build 'tells the story', or fulfills the role well, then it is not 'weak'. It is successful and therefore 'strong'. Only bad RPGers have weak chars. In this context, their stats are not about DPS and a good DPS build could well be a 'weak' char. It's thinking like yours, N7Kopper, that leads to the classification of those who don't share the 1337 calculator goals as poor players by the narrow-minded. It would be better if we all just accepted that not all players are going to want to chase that points hare round the track every night. They are playing a very different game and not necessarily by your rules.

Your understanding of how NWN should be played is a bit off the track there. It is an AD&D game and high level chars should be retired. The game mechanic is not designed to work well with them, they generally act as story sources or hang about in bars telling tall tales. You could make the case that BW went too far and let chars get too high a level. I was so concerned at the time, but community self-control generally avoided difficulty so there was no problem to solve in the end.

[BongMong]

ME3 has similar problems to NWN. MP has been 'over levelled' as it got boosted in difficulty. It also requires a bit of community self-control.

[ChickenDownUnder]

But what if you add chicken!

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 10 septembre 2012 - 06:39 .

[BongMong]

Actually, thinking some more, this might help you understand. Imagine some RPGers have wandered into a gold game without 1337 consent. It happens. They are all set to fight an heroic losing battle against the reaper foe and go down in a dramatic firefight as a close knit team, sticking together and fighting back to back as ME3 game play encourages. Then a 1337 turns up and runs round each map 'carrying' the team, all the time moaning at other players for being 'weak leachers' or some such. Marvellous. It happens quite a bit, I think you'll find.

Of course RPGers rarely moan about such in game, because that would be out of character. It doesn't mean this isn't a common problem that we all have to accept however. Having a go at those different than you is unlikely to work. If you want to convert RPGers to 1337 calc players, just persuade them why your way would be fun to try. Just because I don't see what the attraction is, doesn't mean I can't see that the 1337 calcs have fun playing this way. They clearly do.

[OmegaRex]

How did you meet a lot of your friends that you claim are the only ones worthy of your presence in this game? Are they literally ALL from real life, gaming groups, or BSN? Have you really never encountered good random players?
.

my friends list is mostly ME3 players, but to answer your third question, I haven't.

i met one decent player who uses the GI with a Pirahna though. never seen him use anyone else so can't call him good just because he's effective with the best character in the game

[VaultingFrog]

Here is my question.... do the people who write such "letters" to randoms really expect to see any results of said letter? I can honestly say that by in large (in my own opinion) that the crowd of players here on these forums is a vast minority of players in ME3 MP. I wouldnt put it beyond 15% and that is stretching it by my account.

So really your writing "letters" to people who will never see them, no particularly care what you think, want or feel. Seems like a bloody waste of time and forum space to me. Speaking of waste of forum space, this post of mine is a prime example of that waste, but I do it anyways because of the amount of threads I have seen.