166 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
That part no, it's the part that the elves never seem to catch on to that I'm thinking about.  The whole he was willing to let his people die from the werewolf curse rather than let go of a century old grudge against people long dead.  Cause until you beat him down and convince him that's what he's doing.  Then there's the whole knowing how to achieve immortality and not sharing that knowledge with anyone (honestly think this would bother the Dalish more).

Zathrian wanted to cure his people without ending the curse; he was stubborn, but The Warden can convince him to let go of his hatred.

 
Yeah that's when the quest starts.  When he makes the decision to fight a group of werewolves and the living incarnation of death he demonstrates that he would rather let his people die than end the curse.

LobselVith8 wrote...
His people aren't angry, no matter what The Warden tells them about Zathrian. I don't think the Dalish are as eager to hate mages as their Andrastian counterparts.

Yes because that's how they've been trained.  Just like the Dalish in DA2 where every last one of them knows the clan should have moved but none of them question Marethari.  The Dalish are raised from birth not to question their mage overlords.  It isn't a matter of being eager to hate it's a matter of being conditioned to obey.  Kinda like the Dwarves and their Paragons.  Branka never would have gotten as far as she did if the Dwarves weren't trained, again from birth, to worship the ground Paragons walk on.  If they weren't established as unasailable gods I guarantee you at least half the house would have turned back at some point before she started sacrificing them.

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Dalish Warden Origin also makes it clear that Keepers aren't dictators, and don't have absolute authority over the clan.

Having played through that Origin numerous times I have two questions.  How and when is that even hinted at?  Marethari makes the decision to move, Marethari makes the decision to send you after Tamlen, Marethari tells Hahren Paivel (sp?) to perform a funeral service for Tamlen.  All we see of Dalish leadership is Marethari dictating things to the clan.  She's never questioned, never defers to anyone elses judgements she just makes decisions and tells people what to do.

The story about the Dalish Warden's parents.

Been a while refresh my memory.  Cause if I'm remembering it right it actually reinforces the idea that the Keepers are unquestioned dictators who unilaterally decide the actions of the clans while answering to no one.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 23 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Templars.

[sylvanaerie]

Mages.

While I have antipathy for Anders, that does not mean I'm all "YAY templars". My objection is to the extreme views (on both sides). I don't hate all mages because of batsh*t insane Anders. Nor do I hate all templars because of Knight Commander Crazy.

I choose to side with mages because I feel it's wrong to kill a group of innocent people for the actions of one person. And because the only one crazier in Kirkwall than Anders is Meredith.

In an ideal Thedas, I'd like to see the Circles actually become what they should have been, schools, where mages are capable to police themselves, and live and learn in relative safety, or work in concert with templars without one having total control over the situation.

It's so off kilter in Kirkwall and has polarized a lot of the fan base.

[Lazy Jer]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Mages.

While I have antipathy for Anders, that does not mean I'm all "YAY templars". My objection is to the extreme views (on both sides). I don't hate all mages because of batsh*t insane Anders. Nor do I hate all templars because of Knight Commander Crazy.

I choose to side with mages because I feel it's wrong to kill a group of innocent people for the actions of one person. And because the only one crazier in Kirkwall than Anders is Meredith.

In an ideal Thedas, I'd like to see the Circles actually become what they should have been, schools, where mages are capable to police themselves, and live and learn in relative safety, or work in concert with templars without one having total control over the situation.

It's so off kilter in Kirkwall and has polarized a lot of the fan base.

I like the way you think...'cause it's more or less how I think.  Mages are getting the short end of the stick and nowhere is that more evident then in Kirkwall.  But Anders isn't some kind of hero because he was willing to commit murder and resort to blowing up buildings in order to further the "cause".

[Xilizhra]

In an ideal Thedas, I'd like to see the Circles actually become what they should have been, schools, where mages are capable to police themselves, and live and learn in relative safety, or work in concert with templars without one having total control over the situation.

The only time the "Circle as school" thing has ever been true is in the old Tevinter Imperium. It's fine if you want to bring that back (presumably minus the national political power), but just note that nothing about the Circle under the Chantry's system has ever been anything but a prison.

I like the way you think...'cause it's more or less how I think. Mages are getting the short end of the stick and nowhere is that more evident then in Kirkwall. But Anders isn't some kind of hero because he was willing to commit murder and resort to blowing up buildings in order to further the "cause".

I believe it's too early to tell. We don't know if history will vindicate him yet. Plenty of people claim atomic bombing Japan saved lives in the long run.

[Laura Jean]

I always support the mages. Mostly because I agree with Anders the mages plight and the fact they have no support from the chantry. Remember that the Chantry is the ultimate authority over both mage and Templars. The grand cleric Elthina is unwilling to broker a comprise insisting that Meredith and Orsino work it out themselves.

Infact during the Justice quest you have the ability to question the grand cleric about the mages plight. Anders ask you to do this a one last chance to get her off the fence. That is one of the reasons he blew up the chantry, because the Grand Cleric could not and would not mediate a comprise.

I believe Anders is a revolutionary only time will if it is other wise

[lastpatriot]

Laura Jean wrote...


I believe Anders is a revolutionary only time will if it is other wise

Don't forget that Anders also killed many innocents to make his point. In that aspect, he's a murderer at best, a terrorist at worst. Under those conditions, it's difficult for me to side with him even though I generally agree with many of his points. Still, just about every mage Hawke runs into during his/her adventures turns out to be a blood mage. Perhaps the Templar's are right after all?

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

I kiled Anders because he was a terrorist that murdered inocent people and threw the entire city into anarchy. However, I still sided with the mages, because it was the just thing to do. Ironically, it makes little difference, since you have to kill both Orsino and Meredith regardless of what you choose.

[lastpatriot]

Sir Pounce-a-lot wrote...

I kiled Anders because he was a terrorist that murdered inocent people and threw the entire city into anarchy. However, I still sided with the mages, because it was the just thing to do. Ironically, it makes little difference, since you have to kill both Orsino and Meredith regardless of what you choose.

I did the same thing on my FemHawke which was kind of messed up as she and and Anders were good friends.  Makes for a good dramatic story though.

[expanding panic]

Last Patriot I just spent about the last 6 minutes reading your signature. A lot of them made me laugh. I forget what the thread is about and didn't read any on the post.

[lastpatriot]

expanding panic wrote...

Last Patriot I just spent about the last 6 minutes reading your signature. A lot of them made me laugh. I forget what the thread is about and didn't read any on the post.

LOL!  I did the same thing when I saw it on someone elses post!

[Shadow Fox]

Templars that way I can get free tail.:innocent:

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Laura Jean]

lastpatriot wrote...

Laura Jean wrote...


I believe Anders is a revolutionary only time will if it is other wise

Don't forget that Anders also killed many innocents to make his point. In that aspect, he's a murderer at best, a terrorist at worst. Under those conditions, it's difficult for me to side with him even though I generally agree with many of his points. Still, just about every mage Hawke runs into during his/her adventures turns out to be a blood mage. Perhaps the Templar's are right after all?

I agree he did kill some innocence people and Anders will agree if you question him on it. but I don’t think the Chantry is exactly innocent.  I am trying to make the case that the Grand cleric and the Chantry are guilty of murder by neglect by not controlling the Templars better and with no oversite for their abuses. If you talk to Elthaina about the “Tranquill Solution” she only said Ser Alric (sp) was murdered and nothing about his crimes of abusing/raping/killing mages. The mages are completely at the mercy of the Templars.
As for blood mages you do meet several that are not blood mage but want free of the circle, Ffeyniral, keeper Maratharine(sp), Orisino (until the final battle) there were five mages, if you side with mages, that did not resort to blood magic. I would imangine several of the starkhaven mage that escape, terri for example were not blood mages.  In fact Anders hate blood mage like Tahone(sp) who actively seek blood magic and feel sorry for ones who fall into blood magic due to fear such as Ser Thrask’s daughter.

[vortex216]

     Mages. Definatly mages. Imagine this your 7 years old  walking along la-di-da, whistling a catchy tune. Suddenley you stub your toe. You scream over the pain and a bowling ball sized fireball erupts out of your hands. The fireball blasts foreward and burns down a house. Nobody got hurt. A few minutes later big men in shiny armor and big swords come and grab you. You get carried off and locked away, being told that your evil. You never see your family again.
     Templars are completley unjust maniacs who imprison mages just for having magic. Do they get locked away for knowing how to use giant sword? Yes, yes mages can learn blood magic and consort with demons! Other people can be equally dangerous, and NOT be influenced by a demon. Ruining the mages' lives isn't going to fix anything. Like Varric said the more mages resisted, the harder Merridith squeezed. The harder Merridith squeezed, the more they resited. Fools could even see that system would never work!
     Granted, there are good templars like Cullen in da2, and mages are extremely dangerous. But would you like to be locked up and have the key thrown away?! Mages are dangerous that is why we should respect them. A good solution to all of this is let the mages be free, have the circles a "school" and have the templars city gaurds for mages. Viola! Near perfect solution. But, the system they had was terrible. What Anders did was completley justified. It may not have been for the better, but it was sorely needed.

(sorry for such a long post)

[Huntress]

Mages!

[vixvicco]

With the Mages, but my heart is with the Templars. The thing is, the Templars are abusive and abuse their power. They rape the mages and do other cruel things. Mages do need to be conrolled, but not by the corrupt Templars. When normal humans are serials killers it;s scary. When mages are serial killers, its beyond scary,its dreadful! I would still side with the Mages, because I oppose slavery..