225 réponses à ce sujet

[arial]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The universe will end next week.

I'd explain how I know this, but you're all too stupid to understand.

not being able to understand something does not make you stupid, as no one Understands everything.

[The Night Mammoth]

arial wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The universe will end next week.

I'd explain how I know this, but you're all too stupid to understand.

not being able to understand something does not make you stupid, as no one Understands everything.

But the writers at BioWare do. 

How else could they write something normal humans can't understand and aren't supposed to. This is ludicrous. It's not difficult to understand, it's just stupid. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:04 .

[Eterna]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

No we are able to understand it. The Leviathan created the Catalyst to preserve life at any cost. Being the AI it is, the solution it decided on was the most reliable way to ensure that organic life would not go extinct. It would harvest civillizations and preserve them in reaper form so they can't be entirely wiped out.  By doing so it creates new room for organic life to evolve.

Modifié par Eterna5, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

If it's too complicated for us, as in organics, to understand how was it ever created by BioWare?

This line of reasoning always confuses me. You realize this is all fictional, that eal people, like us, actually made this, right? 

Unless you're implying BioWare are actually a conglomerate of super-intelligent machines.

+1

[mastesargent]

 So the fact that an entire race of synthetics not only set aside their differences with their organic creators, but also fought next to them against the Catayst's Reapers, in no way defies the whole "The created will always rebel against the creator" thing? He's a living example his own broken logic, killing his creators as his 'solution' to chaos. Also, if the created always rebel, why haven't the Reapers rebelled against him?

[arial]

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

[The Night Mammoth]

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:25 .

[Eterna]

mastesargent wrote...

 So the fact that an entire race of synthetics not only set aside their differences with their organic creators, but also fought next to them against the Catayst's Reapers, in no way defies the whole "The created will always rebel against the creator" thing? He's a living example his own broken logic, killing his creators as his 'solution' to chaos. Also, if the created always rebel, why haven't the Reapers rebelled against him?

But the Geth did rebel against their creators. In fact, they became a threat to the galaxy. If they had not shown mercy, the Quarians would be extinct.

The Reapers don't rebel because they are an extension of the Catalyst, he embodies their collective intelligence and has complete dominion over them. 

[arial]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

they wrote it by saying Organic minds can not understand it. If organic minds are never supposed to understand it, and we play and organic character, then it really doesn't matter what they write because we are unable to understand it either way.

[Eterna]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

The Catalyst makes perfect sense now, I don't see how anyone could be confused at this point. 

[N7Gold]

The problem is we're analyzing the Catalyst's logic in terms of galactic peace, which is what makes his logic appear broken. It only seems like he's searching for a way to bring peace in the galaxy, but he's only doing it for the Leviathans agendas because synthetics and organics that can build synthetics are a threat to the Leviathans in their pursuit to regain control over the galaxy. That's why peace between the quarians and geth are meaningless to him. The Catalyst is created by a condescending, arrogant race who consider themselves the apex of organic life and view everyone and everything in the galaxy as tools to be controlled, nothing more. Synthetics are difficult for them to control, and they can only control a handful of organic races.

Modifié par N7Gold, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Mcfly616]

The Catalyst is probably the most interesting npc in the game (besides the squadmates)

[The Night Mammoth]

arial wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

they wrote it by saying Organic minds can not understand it.

But they obviously had the Catalyst try and tell us it.

You said people think it's using broken logic because it was never meant to be understood. BioWare didn't just leave at 'you wouldn't understand', they have us a heap of information that apparently is supposed to be confusing and impossible to understand by humans. 

If organic minds are never supposed to understand it, and we play and organic character, then it really doesn't matter what they write because we are unable to understand it either way.

BUT THEY ARE F*CKING ORGANIC. BioWare can't physically write something humans can't understand, because they are human. Derp. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:39 .

[D24O]

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst is probably the most interesting npc in the game (besides the squadmates)

 

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

The Catalyst makes perfect sense now, I don't see how anyone could be confused at this point. 

I'm not confused, I think it makes sense. 

[Hrothdane]

D24O wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst is probably the most interesting npc in the game (besides the squadmates)

 

My sentiment, exactly.

[mastesargent]

Eterna5 wrote...

mastesargent wrote...

 So the fact that an entire race of synthetics not only set aside their differences with their organic creators, but also fought next to them against the Catayst's Reapers, in no way defies the whole "The created will always rebel against the creator" thing? He's a living example his own broken logic, killing his creators as his 'solution' to chaos. Also, if the created always rebel, why haven't the Reapers rebelled against him?

But the Geth did rebel against their creators. In fact, they became a threat to the galaxy. If they had not shown mercy, the Quarians would be extinct.

The Reapers don't rebel because they are an extension of the Catalyst, he embodies their collective intelligence and has complete dominion over them. 

The Geth didn't pursue the Quarians because they no longer percieved their retreating creators as a threat. As they evolved and grew smarter, they sought to understand organics in hopes of reconciling with the Quarians. The Geth that threatened the galaxy were only a splinter group, making up a minority of the Geth.

As for the Reapers, they have shown that they have individual itellingence and identities. Soveriegn, for instance, referred to himself as 'I' insted of Legion's trademark 'we', showing individualism. The Reaper on Rannoch mentions to Shepard thet "Harbinger speaks of you", indicating independent thought and the ability to recognize other Reapers as individuals.

[CoolHanc101]

Can't believe people are still obsessed with this topic.

Move on.

[arial]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...

@ The Night Mammoth: there is a major difference between fully understanding something, and only thinking you understand it

I'm aware of that.

Not that your statement is relevant to anything I've said so far. 

Apparently the Catalyst says things organic minds are never meant to understand. 

So how the f*ck did BioWare write it?

they wrote it by saying Organic minds can not understand it.

But they obviously had the Catalyst try and tell us it.

You said people think it's using broken logic because it was never meant to be understood. BioWare didn't just leave at 'you wouldn't understand', they had the Catalyst tell us its plans and assertions anyway.  

If organic minds are never supposed to understand it, and we play and organic character, then it really doesn't matter what they write because we are unable to understand it either way.

BUT THEY ARE F*CKING ORGANIC. BioWare can't physically write something humans can't understand, because they are human. Derp. 

You do not need a working knowledge of something to write it, thats why its called fiction.

You think Tolkein had experience taking down dark lords with a magic ring?

[D24O]

CoolHanc101 wrote...

Can't believe people are still obsessed with this topic.

Move on.

no u

[DeathScepter]

Hrothdane wrote...

k0xfilter wrote...

That means that the Catalyst and the Reapers are Emos? Nobody understands them...how sad.

They are more likely goths because of how angry and nihilistic they come across as.

"YOUR WORDS ARE AS EMPTY AS YOUR FUTURE"

There is a major difference between Goth, Emo and Nihilist.

Goth: Understands darker side of nature and enjoys wearing black

Emo: Too much bad poetry due to bad logic is about sadness

Nihilist: wants to see the world burn due to everything is meaningless.

[The Night Mammoth]

arial wrote...
You do not need a working knowledge of something to write it, thats why its called fiction.

You think Tolkein had experience taking down dark lords with a magic ring?

What's so f*cking difficut to understand?

Catalyst gives information. Information makes little to no sense.

People are confused. People think the Catalyst's logic is broken. 

You say people think this because it was intentionally written for human minds to be unable to understand it. 

For this to actually exist BioWare must understand things normal humans cant. 

BioWare are trying to tell us something logical. It's completely different to your stupid example. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

1) All men are mortal.
2) Socrates is a man.
3) Socrates is not mortal.

By your reasoning, if a machine says this, it "makes sense" because we cannot understand their reasoning. 

So ignoring issues of semantics, here's reality: the logic is flawed. If we cannot understand how a machine thinks, then it's best not to explain their motivations in the first place.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:48 .

[arial]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

arial wrote...
You do not need a working knowledge of something to write it, thats why its called fiction.

You think Tolkein had experience taking down dark lords with a magic ring?

What's so f*cking difficut to understand?

Catalyst gives information. Information makes little to no sense.

People are confused. People think the Catalyst's logic is broken. 

You say people think this because it was intentionally written for human minds to be unable to understand it. 

For this to actually exist BioWare must understand things normal humans cant. 

BioWare are trying to tell us something logical. It's completely different to your stupid example. 

not understanding something does not make it Broken.

And you do not need to have working knowledge of something to write about it!

[drayfish]

If this were true, if the intent were to sculpt something that made no sense to human grammar and logic, wouldn't the Catalyst's dialogue in that case consist of:

'Shepard, welcome to the Crucible. Want a soda? No? Okay. Prepare for your mind to get blown. I have something to tell you, something profound...

'Shepard, you have to hammock over banana tricycle boat-stamp! Because if you don't, megastore orange upward for triceratops. ...All the triceratops.

So tryout Friday armpit, Shepard!  For the love of all things sacred: Tryout Friday armpit...'

Modifié par drayfish, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:00 .