225 réponses à ce sujet

[D24O]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...


Are you two finished?

I think I'm going to get sick.

Gooby pls

[Conniving_Eagle]

D24O wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...


Are you two finished?

I think I'm going to get sick.

Gooby pls

[MegaSovereign]

He made sense but I never let go of my gun.

[InvincibleHero]

mastesargent wrote...

 So the fact that an entire race of synthetics not only set aside their differences with their organic creators, but also fought next to them against the Catayst's Reapers, in no way defies the whole "The created will always rebel against the creator" thing? He's a living example his own broken logic, killing his creators as his 'solution' to chaos. Also, if the created always rebel, why haven't the Reapers rebelled against him?

So  geth are incable of changing its consensus at any time? Of course it is logical to ally with organics to face the same threat to it that of extinction by reapers. Geth are not proven to be above geth self-interest.

As an AI he has appropriate failsafe measures. An inadvertently created AI will have no such constraints. They are an extension of the catalyst. It is all one team reapers.

Now imagine if after the war the geth got to researching a super-tech that will put geth far ahead of every council race. They find out about it. What are the odds they leave geth alone? Zero. Conflict is the result as geth could calculate organics are always going to interfere to prevent the geth from advancing when the geth want to better themselves. IMO only a fear of geth destruction keeps them in line. If they can assure they destroy organic threat for good and survive well that will be done. It is an inevitable conclusion.

[Warrior Craess]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

there is nothing mysterious about the catalyst logic. I understand it completely. It's still wrong. Becuase something has happened in the past, does not mean it's inevitable. 

But lets give it that eventually some synthetic life will attempt wipe wipe out all life. The question then becomes how long it takes before eventually becomes now? If it's a 500K years in the future, it's entirely possible that organic live may have already wiped itself out.  Even another 50K years would be an incredibly long time for races to develope and decline naturally with out synthetic assistance. 

This means that inevitably is a negilable arguement due to the vast number of variables involved in how long a race will survive. 

The next important question is how vulnerable to these synthetics are organic races? If it's confined to a single planet before contact to the relays then yes, lose of a race is possible. (sorry if I don't think that skynet is possible though).

But given that all major races have world killing fleets, it's extremely unlikely that it would ever become any more than a single planet problem.  BTW this restriction to a single planet pertains even to the ME universe that we know of.  This reliance on ship launched kinetic weapons doesn't ever apply to a stationary target. Anything traveling at ever 0.1 light speed will have a tremendous amount of destructive power.  And once a fledgling synthetic race loses it's ability to mass produce itself, it's really not a threat. The Geth defeated the quarrians becuase they were not willing to nuke their home planet. This doesn't mean that the geth could actualy threaten galactic civilization. Nor had they since they disappeared into the Veil.

Sorry, but the catalyst is speaking out of it's south facing end, and has all the logic fallacies of a child who shape it took.

[Wowky]

Do you think they called it the Catalyst because it sparked a huge debate? Get it?

...I'll let myself out.

[Binary_Helix 1]

D24O wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...

And the OP who obviously saw and heard a different catalyst than everyone else.

I wouldn't go that far, arial can hold any view she likes.

This just goes to show you how far having a vagina will take you. You can be stupid, untalented, whatever, and loads of desperate chodes will complement you and come to your defense. I see this all the time on the internet I'm not targeting you.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:26 .

[The Night Mammoth]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Now imagine if after the war the geth got to researching a super-tech that will put geth far ahead of every council race.

Like a massive Dyson Sphere to house every Geth program currently working? 

Or a super-dreadnought?

They had already surpassed the council races in some respects before the Reaper war. 

They find out about it. What are the odds they leave geth alone? Zero.

Prove it.

I think it depends on what choice you made at both the conlusion of the Rannoch arc and at the end. 

Ideally Synthesis plus Quarian alliance, meaning no, organics aren't going to interfere. Synthesis should put a stop to that. 

Shepard the friendly ghost isn't going to let this sh*t fly if you choose control. 

So I think overall the chances are pretty high. 

Conflict is the result as geth could calculate organics are always going to interfere to prevent the geth from advancing when the geth want to better themselves.

Yet organics left the Geth to their own devices for three hundred years. 

IMO only a fear of geth destruction keeps them in line. If they can assure they destroy organic threat for good and survive well that will be done. It is an inevitable conclusion.

I'm seeing a lot of baseless claims here. You can prove that too. Start by working out why, when they easily could have, they didn't wipe out the Quarians. 

[Mythanblood]

arial wrote...
if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.

You know.. There is a saying:
If a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and can't explain the theory of relativity in a way that said kid can understand it, then the Physcist has no idea what s/he's talking about.

That saying works with everything: Teachers, parents, politicians, authors..

[Dubozz]

D24O wrote...

F*** the Catalyst.

[zombieord]

[Pantegana]

You know, if I literally translate "makes sense" in Italian it comes out "fa senso" wich means "it sucks".
So I agree with you.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
The Catalyst's logic makes sense, and it is not incomprehensible. People here are just grasping at straws, they find it impossible that something that killed and Reaperized countless organics actually has an understandable (if not agreeable) reason to do that.

Basically, 95% of all anti-Catalyst arguments come down to "There cannot be what must not be".

For a detailed analysis of the Catalyst's logic, see Why the Catalyst's logic is right II by JShepppp.

[Eain]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

Except the theory of relativity is the theory of relativity, and the Catalyst's circular reasoning is a logically fallacy identified since early Greek days 2500 years ago.

[Twinzam.V]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.

"You're not even alive! Not really. You're just a machine, and machines can be broken! "
Shepard's logic is also perfectly sound, also i find it better.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Yaos]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

I was waiting for this one and thought about it. "LOL PRESUMABLY SOVEREIGN IS RIGHT YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THEIR EXISTENCE THAT'S WHY YOU WHINE"

Now here how it goes.
Sovereign is talking about Shepard, which the player identifies to.
Sovereign is NOT talking about the player.
Shepard seems to get along Catalyst ideas just fine, and not the players.

If Sovereign was right and "we" couldn't comprehend it, Shepard would have gone "WTF" like players did, which he did not.

Point is : the end is stupid, sovereign wasn't right, and no foreshadowing.

[D24O]

Catalyst makes sense, he's just missing a few semicolons.

[Pitznik]

Catalyst might be right, but since he doesn't bother to present any evidence at all, there is no reason to just believe him blindly.

[Mordak55]

arial wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

HAL-9000 (Space Odyssey), VIKI (I, Robot) etc. The Catalyst is not something new for Sci-fi

I never said he was.

the Reapers have always said we can not understand their existence, which we can't, this is why people don't understand the Catalysts logic, and call it broken, when in fact it is simply to complicated for an organic mind to process properly

Sounds like your trying to defend space magic to me.

[Hrothdane]

The Catalyst's ideas may make sense to him within his own mind, but many a madman's ideas make sense to him in his own mind, too. Unless they can show that their ideas correspond to reality, their ideas are nothing more than shadows of shadows as far as anyone else should be concerned.

[Slayer299]

Xellith wrote...

Organics and synthetics clash.  However every account on record has resulted in a "live and let live" truce or organics coming back and winning.  Every war between organics and synthetic has resulted in a synthetic victory because of reaper intervention.

The catalyst is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The universe will end next week.

I'd explain how I know this, but you're all too stupid to understand.

[Slayer299]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
The Catalyst's logic makes sense, and it is not incomprehensible. People here are just grasping at straws, they find it impossible that something that killed and Reaperized countless organics actually has an understandable (if not agreeable) reason to do that.

Basically, 95% of all anti-Catalyst arguments come down to "There cannot be what must not be".

For a detailed analysis of the Catalyst's logic, see Why the Catalyst's logic is right II by JShepppp.

No, the Catalyst's logic makes sense to it and any local village idiots hanging around nearby.

As for people grasping at straws most of what are put here are quite logical and clear as to why we shouldn't just 'trust' the Catalyst, because....(insert x). I did look at the thread link you gave and it is, IMO, totally wrong.

Lastly, if it takes that bloody long a piece of writing to justify how the Catalyst is 'right', than obviously something is wrong. It shouldn't take something the length of a scholarly paper to defend a POV by a character made in a game.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Slayer299 wrote...

Lastly, if it takes that bloody long a piece of writing to justify how the Catalyst is 'right', than obviously something is wrong. It shouldn't take something the length of a scholarly paper to defend a POV by a character made in a game.

Exactly. Before the EC, there were exactly 16 lines of dialogue from the Catalyst, little of which was devoted to explaining anything about the Reapers. And the game thrust galaxy-changing decisions on the player under the claim of organics vs. synthetics which is ridiculous.

Hell, we had more exposition from Vigil and he was actually our ally. Considering the perspective of the Catalyst and the claim he is reintroducing into the narrative, I expect this exposition in game.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 11 septembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[fr33stylez]

..

Modifié par fr33stylez, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:12 .