225 réponses à ce sujet

[fr33stylez]

The Catalyst doesn't make sense.

And it wouldn't matter if it did. Go Away, or Die in a Fire. The Reapers are the problem in the ME Universe, not the Catalyst's stupid problem.

You're not gonna change the fact you indoctrinate people, turn families into husks, bomb planets and instigate race wars in the last 5 minnutes just because you had a mandate.

Die in a Fire.

[GreyLycanTrope]

fr33stylez wrote...

The Catalyst doesn't make sense.

And it wouldn't matter if it did. Go Away, or Die in a Fire. The Reapers are the problem in the ME Universe, not the Catalyst's stupid problem.

You're not gonna change the fact you indoctrinate people, turn families into husks, bomb planets and instigate race wars in the last 5 minnutes just because you had a mandate.

Die in a Fire.

Death in fire

[elitehunter34]

This is the Catalyst's logic. "Machines will rise up against their creators and they will eventually exterminate all organic life because of this. I have no evidence to back this up or any logic to suggest why synthetics will exterminate all organic life after destroying their creators."

Why this character exists, I don't know. I really really don't know.

[dreman9999]

Pitznik wrote...

Catalyst might be right, but since he doesn't bother to present any evidence at all, there is no reason to just believe him blindly.

The evidence is in the series it self and in leviathan.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

This is the Catalyst's logic. "Machines will rise up against their creators and they will eventually exterminate all organic life because of this. I have no evidence to back this up or any logic to suggest why synthetics will exterminate all organic life after destroying their creators."

Why this character exists, I don't know. I really really don't know.

It's a machine doing what it's programed to do. What not comprehended by organics is that organics are the source of the conflict with synthetic. The catalyst is trying to fix that by converting , changing and controling organics and synthetics. But it's casuing more conflict with organics and synthetics doing this by forcing it on organic and can't see it becauseit's blindling doing it's programing.

In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/syntheticconflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse.

We are ask to choose because the catalyst is at the limit it can do. It can't destroy itself with the desstroy option the catalyst has and it can rewrite itself with the control option because of the limits of it's programing. It only see synthesis as an option but need Shepard to be able to do it being that Shepard is the last peice need for it to work. It has no care to how it solve th eprobelm give, just that it's solved. The catalyst has no morals. It in a loop because it can't solve the solution give because of it limits. It limits being that it can't control all organics and all organics that will come.

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

This is the Catalyst's logic. "Machines will rise up against their creators and they will eventually exterminate all organic life because of this. I have no evidence to back this up or any logic to suggest why synthetics will exterminate all organic life after destroying their creators."

Why this character exists, I don't know. I really really don't know.

It's a machine doing what it's programed to do. What not comprehended by organics is that organics are the source of the conflict with synthetic. The catalyst is trying to fix that by converting , changing and controling organics and synthetics. But it's casuing more conflict with organics and synthetics doing this by forcing it on organic and can't see it becauseit's blindling doing it's programing.

In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/syntheticconflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse.

We are ask to choose because the catalyst is at the limit it can do. It can't destroy itself with the desstroy option the catalyst has and it can rewrite itself with the control option because of the limits of it's programing. It only see synthesis as an option but need Shepard to be able to do it being that Shepard is the last peice need for it to work. It has no care to how it solve th eprobelm give, just that it's solved. The catalyst has no morals. It in a loop because it can't solve the solution give because of it limits. It limits being that it can't control all organics and all organics that will come.

Not sure what this mix of fact and headcanon has to do with what I said.

[JamieCOTC]

That Catalyst creates a self fulfilling prophesy by meddling w/ the course of natural evolution. He says conflict always arises between organics and synthetics. He even states that the Leviathans were part of the problem, but what he failed to recognize was that so was he.

[EricHVela]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

This suggests that the writers are incapable of understanding it.

How does someone write about something they don't understand themselves? From what I've seen, they simply apply some kind of "anti-logic" that resembles insanity to most people and claim it is beyond Human understanding.

No. It's not that we can't understand its logic. It's that authors represent "unknownable" logic with insanity.

It's not alien. It's just loopy.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Logic is logic. If you can understand logic, that is all. Sure, there are higher level calculative operations in sentential logic, but that is just a fancy way to derive outcomes... Simple logic will always suffice; it just might take longer.

OP, you either don't understand what "logic" means, or you just like the smell of poopy shorts.

[CronoDragoon]

Whether or not the Catalyst makes sense, this is a pretty terrible argument.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

This is the Catalyst's logic. "Machines will rise up against their creators and they will eventually exterminate all organic life because of this. I have no evidence to back this up or any logic to suggest why synthetics will exterminate all organic life after destroying their creators."

Why this character exists, I don't know. I really really don't know.

It's a machine doing what it's programed to do. What not comprehended by organics is that organics are the source of the conflict with synthetic. The catalyst is trying to fix that by converting , changing and controling organics and synthetics. But it's casuing more conflict with organics and synthetics doing this by forcing it on organic and can't see it becauseit's blindling doing it's programing.

In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/syntheticconflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse.

We are ask to choose because the catalyst is at the limit it can do. It can't destroy itself with the desstroy option the catalyst has and it can rewrite itself with the control option because of the limits of it's programing. It only see synthesis as an option but need Shepard to be able to do it being that Shepard is the last peice need for it to work. It has no care to how it solve th eprobelm give, just that it's solved. The catalyst has no morals. It in a loop because it can't solve the solution give because of it limits. It limits being that it can't control all organics and all organics that will come.

Not sure what this mix of fact and headcanon has to do with what I said.

I telling how the catalyst thinks. Add, everything about the catalyst I stated is what the Leviathens state and how it acts.
Why do you think itturns organics into reapers?

[dreman9999]

JamieCOTC wrote...

That Catalyst creates a self fulfilling prophesy by meddling w/ the course of natural evolution. He says conflict always arises between organics and synthetics. He even states that the Leviathans were part of the problem, but what he failed to recognize was that so was he.

Good, you get it. The problem here is that it can't see because it's blinded by it's programing.

[SnakeSNMF]

He makes sense/

k

[jstme]

Writers wrote Catalyst with all its (lack of) logic. They did not have to explain it at all but once for some obscure reason they decided to try and explain it - your point is no longer valid.
Either you go for mystery (you cannot comprehend stuff) or you go for acceptable logical explanation. Choosing the middle way in this case is extremely unprofessional and predictably resulted in weakness of both approaches and strength of none.

[EricHVela]

The creators of the Intelligence[sic]/Catalyst gave it the directive to preserve all life at any cost. Big mistake. The creators were just being greedy and it was their own undoing. (Leviathan DLC.)

The Intelligence[sic]/Catalyst decided that the galaxy needed to achieve something for it to complete its goal. It would reset the galaxy and use the Citadel, Reapers and Relays to speed up the process between cycles until it found what it was seeking that would complete its directive of preserving all life at all costs.

Apparently, the completion of the Crucible and Shepard are what it was seeking if Shepard takes the deal. It seems to be under the idea that, because synthetics and organics were eventually fighting each other in the cycles, the two life-forms needed to be combined into one so it wouldn't fight itself. (Stupid solution if one considers how many die at the hands of their own species without synthetic technology over the course of biological evolution on this planet alone.)

I loathe its solution also as the Intelligence[sic]/Catalyst is not preserving life with Synthesis but creating something new instead. By one interpretation, it could be completing its goal (depending on what your headcanon is for Synthesis).

The other choices apparently do not qualify for its desired resolution according to its dialog, but it has little means to contest the result in two of the three remaining options.

All that this says is that the Catalyst makes sense only to itself.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:59 .

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...
]I telling how the catalyst thinks. Add, everything about the catalyst I stated is what the Leviathens state and how it acts.
Why do you think itturns organics into reapers?

Yeah, I get how the Catalyst thinks.  What you said is still entirely irrelevant to what I was saying.

[Pheonix57]

I agree with you, except for the fact that the Catalyst mentions war between synthetics and organics, specifically "chaos", even though Shepard has already united the Geth and Quarians.

So yeah, the Catalyst might be logical, but it's also misinformed.

[Pheonix57]

Also, why would the catalyst take the form of something Shepard is familiar with, and then speak in a way that Shepard can't understand?

[Reorte]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's a machine doing what it's programed to do. What not comprehended by organics is that organics are the source of the conflict with synthetic. The catalyst is trying to fix that by converting , changing and controling organics and synthetics. But it's casuing more conflict with organics and synthetics doing this by forcing it on organic and can't see it becauseit's blindling doing it's programing.

In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/syntheticconflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse.

We are ask to choose because the catalyst is at the limit it can do. It can't destroy itself with the desstroy option the catalyst has and it can rewrite itself with the control option because of the limits of it's programing. It only see synthesis as an option but need Shepard to be able to do it being that Shepard is the last peice need for it to work. It has no care to how it solve th eprobelm give, just that it's solved. The catalyst has no morals. It in a loop because it can't solve the solution give because of it limits. It limits being that it can't control all organics and all organics that will come.

That's all a hypothesis of what it's up to but it sounds like a pretty sound one.

[dreman9999]

Reorte wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's a machine doing what it's programed to do. What not comprehended by organics is that organics are the source of the conflict with synthetic. The catalyst is trying to fix that by converting , changing and controling organics and synthetics. But it's casuing more conflict with organics and synthetics doing this by forcing it on organic and can't see it becauseit's blindling doing it's programing.

In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/syntheticconflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse.

We are ask to choose because the catalyst is at the limit it can do. It can't destroy itself with the desstroy option the catalyst has and it can rewrite itself with the control option because of the limits of it's programing. It only see synthesis as an option but need Shepard to be able to do it being that Shepard is the last peice need for it to work. It has no care to how it solve th eprobelm give, just that it's solved. The catalyst has no morals. It in a loop because it can't solve the solution give because of it limits. It limits being that it can't control all organics and all organics that will come.

That's all a hypothesis of what it's up to but it sounds like a pretty sound one.

But this what's going on base on what happen with the quarians and the geth and the leviathans and the catalyst.
There is no conflict inthe series with synthetics that's source did not start with organics.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
]I telling how the catalyst thinks. Add, everything about the catalyst I stated is what the Leviathens state and how it acts.
Why do you think itturns organics into reapers?

Yeah, I get how the Catalyst thinks.  What you said is still entirely irrelevant to what I was saying.

My point expline how synthetics would attack and kill off other organic races.

[Reorte]

dreman9999 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

That's all a hypothesis of what it's up to but it sounds like a pretty sound one.

But this what's going on base on what happen with the quarians and the geth and the leviathans and the catalyst.
There is no conflict inthe series with synthetics that's source did not start with organics.

That's one of the reasons why it's a sound hypothesis. You can't claim that's what's intended though because it sounds like you've put more effort into thinking about it than the writers did.

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...
My point expline how synthetics would attack and kill off other organic races.

Uhh, no.  You didn't.  And that still isn't my point.  My point is that the Catalyst gives no logic or evidence.  You inserting your own speculations for it doesn't mean anything.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 11 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
My point expline how synthetics would attack and kill off other organic races.

Uhh, no.  You didn't.  And that still isn't my point.  My point is that the Catalyst gives no logic or evidence.  You inserting your own speculations for it doesn't mean anything.

But wehave the rest of the game series as evidence. Heck, it almost happened in OVERLORD.

[dreman9999]

Reorte wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

That's all a hypothesis of what it's up to but it sounds like a pretty sound one.

But this what's going on base on what happen with the quarians and the geth and the leviathans and the catalyst.
There is no conflict inthe series with synthetics that's source did not start with organics.

That's one of the reasons why it's a sound hypothesis. You can't claim that's what's intended though because it sounds like you've put more effort into thinking about it than the writers did.

But it's not a hypthesis. Don't you think the geth would have never uprised if the quarian did not try to force them to be tools and try and kill them off?
Why doesn't EDI rebel ageint the crew of the ship?
Would none of this happen if the levinthans not force this problem on the catalyst?

No matter how you cut it the sourse of the conflict with organics synthetic always start with organics. In science, something that always cause an event is not called a hypothesis.