225 réponses à ce sujet

[D24O]

 
https://encrypted-tb...RxPc5cFUE4q2tfA

[Dendio1]

Catalyst has been fixed via EC and Leviathan. People who are still unhappy are just gonna be that way. Their loss.

[JPR1964]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

Polka trend sutor frich da somitul!

You don't understand me : perfect, so what I just said make sense no?

Dumb logic is dumb... (imo)

JPR out!

[JPR1964]

Dendio1 wrote...

Catalyst has been fixed via EC and Leviathan. People who are still unhappy are just gonna be that way. Their loss.

ohhhh, we have to buy DLC to understand starbrat : well, that's something that certainly make sense...

Just no!

JPR out!

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And then afet thathe explaine why that happens. Tech advances, gain sentiance and the organic get in conflit with it trying to control it. Look at the series. Point to one conflict with organcis and synthrtic that was not caused by organics?

One, the Catalyst never says that organics cause it (it only says that organics are part of the problem, not the cause) and two, again, this does not apply to what I'm saying.  I'm saying the Cataylst does not explain why a rebellion by synthetics will lead to the synthetics desire to wipe out all organic life.

Um.....

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

[dreman9999]

JPR1964 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Catalyst has been fixed via EC and Leviathan. People who are still unhappy are just gonna be that way. Their loss.

ohhhh, we have to buy DLC to understand starbrat : well, that's something that certainly make sense...

Just no!

JPR out!

Leviathan just repeats everything ec states about the catalyst but in a more detailed fastion. Ithere for people who did not get it's a shackled AI form EC.

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

Modifié par KingZayd, 11 septembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[drayfish]

It's okay, don't stop me: I'm preserving all life...

This is preservation.  Otherwise he would just end up doing it to himself.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

[Gulaman]

The Catlyst is an insane VI. Like 'David' in Overlord, or EDI when she was on Luna. A crazed artificial intelligence that orders its fleets to slaughter and mutilate billions of lives in the most sadistic way imaginable. Why not simply bomb these worlds to obliteration, wouldn't that be more efficient and less painful for the victims? Why create a vast army of husks to massacre entire civilisations? There's no logic in it. The Catalyst is just a crazy old computer program, a bit like Skynet, only more mental.
I don't think it 'went crazy' either, I think it was programmed that way. Leviathian thinks it's still a stable program which leads me to believe Lev was also a bit psychotic and simply made the VI in their image.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Modifié par KingZayd, 11 septembre 2012 - 10:43 .

[Code_R]

D24O wrote...

F*** the Catalyst.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

1. That isn't what you said earlier. you said:  "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"
2. But the Heretics CHOSE to follow the Reapers orders. And I know the Quarians didn't attack the geth in ME3 because the Geth attacked first. The Reapers still choose not to preserve them.

[dreman9999]

Gulaman wrote...

The Catlyst is an insane VI. Like 'David' in Overlord, or EDI when she was on Luna. A crazed artificial intelligence that orders its fleets to slaughter and mutilate billions of lives in the most sadistic way imaginable. Why not simply bomb these worlds to obliteration, wouldn't that be more efficient and less painful for the victims? Why create a vast army of husks to massacre entire civilisations? There's no logic in it. The Catalyst is just a crazy old computer program, a bit like Skynet, only more mental.
I don't think it 'went crazy' either, I think it was programmed that way. Leviathian thinks it's still a stable program which leads me to believe Lev was also a bit psychotic and simply made the VI in their image.

Yes, this one understands.

[Jawsomebob]

Dendio1 wrote...

Catalyst has been fixed via EC and Leviathan. People who are still unhappy are just gonna be that way. Their loss.

Your joking right? 

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

Modifié par KingZayd, 11 septembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY POINT.  Jesus ****ing christ Dreman.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  You have terrible reading comprehension.  My point is that the Catalyst doesn't explain why synthetics would make the jump from exterminating their creators to exterminating all organic life.  It just isn't explained.

And you know what's funny.  About your Leviathan point.  He doesn't say the Leviathans are at fault.  He says they are part of the problem.  Part. of. the. problem.  Meaning synthetics are at fault too.  It says nothing about organics being the cause of the problem.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

1. That isn't what you said earlier. you said:  "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"
2. But the Heretics CHOSE to follow the Reapers orders. And I know the Quarians didn't attack the geth in ME3 because the Geth attacked first. The Reapers still choose not to preserve them.

1.This is what I said
" For one the geth were never shackled AI's. They started out as vi's and only were limited by their thinking capacity."
That's a hint to them becoming AI's later on. 
2.But the matter of what the reaper ordered them to do is still based in the programing of the leviathens. The heritic geth choose to allow themselves to be tools for the reapers. If some one kills with a tool do you blame the tool or the user?

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY POINT.  Jesus ****ing christ Dreman.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  You have terrible reading comprehension.  My point is that the Catalyst doesn't explain why synthetics would make the jump from exterminating their creators to exterminating all organic life.  It just isn't explained.

And you know what's funny.  About your Leviathan point.  He doesn't say the Leviathans are at fault.  He says they are part of the problem.  Part. of. the. problem.  Meaning synthetics are at fault too.  It says nothing about organics being the cause of the problem.

That is the case of this.... " We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse." 

It just say both sides arenot innocent.The catalyst still acts to control both sides.

[M Hedonist]

Oh. Another article by "Synthetics can't lie" arial. Great.
So, your reasoning is:
1. The Catalyst's plan seems extremely stupid, impractical and inefficient to us and his motives are nonsensical.
2. Therefore, he makes sense.
Legit.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:10 .