225 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Sauruz wrote...

Oh. Another article by "Synthetics can't lie" arial. Great.
So, your reasoning is:
1. The Catalyst's plan seems extremely stupid, impractical and inefficient to us and his motives are nonsensical.
2. Therefore, he makes sense.
Legit.

The catalyst actions is about controling all life to preserve them because it's programing tells it to do it.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY POINT.  Jesus ****ing christ Dreman.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  You have terrible reading comprehension.  My point is that the Catalyst doesn't explain why synthetics would make the jump from exterminating their creators to exterminating all organic life.  It just isn't explained.

And you know what's funny.  About your Leviathan point.  He doesn't say the Leviathans are at fault.  He says they are part of the problem.  Part. of. the. problem.  Meaning synthetics are at fault too.  It says nothing about organics being the cause of the problem.

What do you think I mean by...
We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

1. That isn't what you said earlier. you said:  "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"
2. But the Heretics CHOSE to follow the Reapers orders. And I know the Quarians didn't attack the geth in ME3 because the Geth attacked first. The Reapers still choose not to preserve them.

1.This is what I said
" For one the geth were never shackled AI's. They started out as vi's and only were limited by their thinking capacity."
That's a hint to them becoming AI's later on. 
2.But the matter of what the reaper ordered them to do is still based in the programing of the leviathens. The heritic geth choose to allow themselves to be tools for the reapers. If some one kills with a tool do you blame the tool or the user?

1. Dude, I copied the bit in speechmarks directly from your post. You said : "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"

2. Yes, but the fact the Heretic Geth CHOSE to follow. The Heretics had free will. If someone kills because someone else tells them to, I blame BOTH.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.

Yes it is, when was that being disputed? It doesn't mean the Leviathans started their conflict. And we don't know of any races before the Leviathan. And there is no evidence for organics always being the source of the conflict.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

1. That isn't what you said earlier. you said:  "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"
2. But the Heretics CHOSE to follow the Reapers orders. And I know the Quarians didn't attack the geth in ME3 because the Geth attacked first. The Reapers still choose not to preserve them.

1.This is what I said
" For one the geth were never shackled AI's. They started out as vi's and only were limited by their thinking capacity."
That's a hint to them becoming AI's later on. 
2.But the matter of what the reaper ordered them to do is still based in the programing of the leviathens. The heritic geth choose to allow themselves to be tools for the reapers. If some one kills with a tool do you blame the tool or the user?

1. Dude, I copied the bit in speechmarks directly from your post. You said : "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"

2. Yes, but the fact the Heretic Geth CHOSE to follow. The Heretics had free will. If someone kills because someone else tells them to, I blame BOTH.

1. That still means the geth are AI'S,the just have to joined with other geth to be  AI'S.

2.But then the quetion if the person is a tool or not comes up. This is the very concept Thane brings up in ME2. 

[D24O]

The pyramids are back!

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.

Yes it is, when was that being disputed? It doesn't mean the Leviathans started their conflict. And we don't know of any races before the Leviathan. And there is no evidence for organics always being the source of the conflict.

The leviathans enhance the problem by making the catalyst.And do no other races before the Leviathan had this problem before them with synthetics, there slave races. The evidence is the fact no synthetic  attacked first with out influnce or action based on organics arein the series.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...



VIs aren't limited by their thinking capacity. They don't really think. AI's think. Shackled AI's are AI's who have limited access to their code and hardware. If the Geth were VI's then they couldn't think. They'd only be following their programming. The Geth are AI's.

No VI would wipe out organic life, unless it was programmed to do so. A shackled AI would be very unlikely to wipe out all organic life unless it's core programming forced it to (either deliberately, or out of stupidity). An unshackled AI wiping out organic life would be wiping out organic life because of it's own decisions, so not intrinsically because of Organics.

The fact that they don't think means there thinking capacity is limited. Remeber, when to take to Tali in ME1, she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's. The became like AI when they join together.

Both unshackled AI's and shackle AI can kill off an  organic race. The differance is why. A shackled AI would do it because of it's programing. An unshackled AI would do it out of self defence.
 Both cases still lead to orgainic asthe soruce of conflict.

Organic programed the shackled AI that killed of a race and orangics attacking the unshackled AI forced it to kill to servive.

Tali isn't an objective witness. She thinks of them as VIs because she prefers to think of them as VIs. My point was that VIs aren't just limited  in their capacity to think, they simply can't.

for the shackled AI i agree, but not all the organic races, unless the programming was made that way by some entity that either:
A) wanted all organic races destroyed.
made an improbably stupid programming error

It's not certain that organics would attack the unshackled AI. It's more likely that the Unshackled AI attacks first, mainly due to the fact that it would likely win (unless it's new and weak)

1.She doesn't say that are vi's.She says they started ou as VI's and advance to be AI because the sharedthe sme prossesing power. The gath became one big brain. Each geth an eye with is own self.
2. With with oushackled AI they never attacked first. We have a prime examole ofthe withthe geth and EDI. No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will.

1. You said that she said they are VIs. "the geth are not true AI's."


2. The Heretic Geth were unshackled, and they CHOSE to follow Sovereign and fight organic life.
Luna was panicked, and fought for survival, because she gained intelligence DURING the training simulation.
The AI on the Citadel threatened to blow Shepard up without Shepard attacking.
The Zha'til were subjugated by the Reapers before they messed with the Zha, and before they attacked Protheans. We don't know if they followed the Reapers willingly, or if they were themselves altered and coerced.

Our small sample size has exceptions. We unfortunately don't have information on the earlier conflicts. There is simply no evidence to suggest that "No unshackled AI ever attacked first on there own will. "

1. Said they started out as VI'S.
2.but theheritic geth still attack organics under reapers orders. Reaper orders come form teh catalyst. And the catalyst is doing what it doing based on the programingof the leviathan.Same case as the  zha. The conflict still starts from organics. 
Added, the quarian did not attack the geth in ME3 because the geth attacked first.

1. That isn't what you said earlier. you said:  "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"
2. But the Heretics CHOSE to follow the Reapers orders. And I know the Quarians didn't attack the geth in ME3 because the Geth attacked first. The Reapers still choose not to preserve them.

1.This is what I said
" For one the geth were never shackled AI's. They started out as vi's and only were limited by their thinking capacity."
That's a hint to them becoming AI's later on. 
2.But the matter of what the reaper ordered them to do is still based in the programing of the leviathens. The heritic geth choose to allow themselves to be tools for the reapers. If some one kills with a tool do you blame the tool or the user?

1. Dude, I copied the bit in speechmarks directly from your post. You said : "she says the geth are not true AI's but intardependent vi's"

2. Yes, but the fact the Heretic Geth CHOSE to follow. The Heretics had free will. If someone kills because someone else tells them to, I blame BOTH.

1. That still means the geth are AI'S,the just have to joined with other geth to be  AI'S.

2.But then the quetion if the person is a tool or not comes up. This is the very concept Thane brings up in ME2. 

1. No, it doesn't. Interdepenent VI doesn't translate to AI at all.

2. The person might be a tool, but they still had free will.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 quote pyramid!

Haven't seen one of these marvels for a long time.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.

Yes it is, when was that being disputed? It doesn't mean the Leviathans started their conflict. And we don't know of any races before the Leviathan. And there is no evidence for organics always being the source of the conflict.

The leviathans enhance the problem by making the catalyst.And do no other races before the Leviathan had this problem before them with synthetics, there slave races. The evidence is the fact no synthetic  attacked first with out influnce or action based on organics arein the series.

LOL if you're going to keep it that general, it's also a fact that no organic race attacked first without influence or action based on synthetics in the series. With the conflicts between the thrall species and their synthetics, there is also no mention of who struck first. So there is no evidence that all these conflicts start because of organics.

[JPR1964]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....

Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.

Yes it is, when was that being disputed? It doesn't mean the Leviathans started their conflict. And we don't know of any races before the Leviathan. And there is no evidence for organics always being the source of the conflict.

The leviathans enhance the problem by making the catalyst.And do no other races before the Leviathan had this problem before them with synthetics, there slave races. The evidence is the fact no synthetic  attacked first with out influnce or action based on organics arein the series.

LOL if you're going to keep it that general, it's also a fact that no organic race attacked first without influence or action based on synthetics in the series. With the conflicts between the thrall species and their synthetics, there is also no mention of who struck first. So there is no evidence that all these conflicts start because of organics.

(Pyramid incoming)

You're wrong : the quarians, when they found that the geths had became a sentient race, tried to genocide them... Then the geth fought back, to survive...

All this story was said by Tali in Mass Effect 1.

The best part is that the Geth just defended themselves and let the Quarians flee.

Have a nice pyramidal day!

JPR out!

[KingZayd]

[quote]JPR1964 wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]elitehunter34 wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
Um.....[/quote]
Yeah.  For the fourth time.  What does this have to do with my main point?  Stop patronizing me by spamming your interpretation and throwing out youtube links.  I know what the damn Catalyst said.  It doesn't answer my question.

[/quote]The catalyst just said the leviathan are at fault and it saw it and tried to solve it. How is that a baseless interpritaion of organics being the source of the problem?

Point to one conflict in ME with sysnthetics that did not start because of organics.

[/quote]

Well for one thing: The Leviathan are said to be "part of the problem" not the "source of the problem".
Secondly, the Leviathan =/= all organics.

[/quote]Bt all organic do the same error as the leviathans. As I said before.
In short, We can't comprehend we are the source of the organic/synthetic conflict and the catalyst can't comprehend that it's making it worse. 

[/quote]

You said it, but there is nothing to to support that "all organics" would make the same error. And the Starchild never says that the Leviathans started their war with the synthetics.

[/quote] War is a type of conflict. The conflict ofo rganic and synthetic started before the leviathan became involved. It still is based in organics being the source because of the reasons conflict starts when synthetic start to evolve past organics.
[/quote]

Yes it is, when was that being disputed? It doesn't mean the Leviathans started their conflict. And we don't know of any races before the Leviathan. And there is no evidence for organics always being the source of the conflict.

[/quote]The leviathans enhance the problem by making the catalyst.And do no other races before the Leviathan had this problem before them with synthetics, there slave races. The evidence is the fact no synthetic  attacked first with out influnce or action based on organics arein the series.
[/quote]

LOL if you're going to keep it that general, it's also a fact that no organic race attacked first without influence or action based on synthetics in the series. With the conflicts between the thrall species and their synthetics, there is also no mention of who struck first. So there is no evidence that all these conflicts start because of organics.

[/quote]

(Pyramid incoming)

You're wrong : the quarians, when they found that the geths had became a sentient race, tried to genocide them... Then the geth fought back, to survive...

All this story was said by Tali in Mass Effect 1.

The best part is that the Geth just defended themselves and let the Quarians flee.

Have a nice pyramidal day!

JPR out!

[/quote]

Yes, that's one example.
A counter example is the Heretic Geth attacking humans.
Another is the AI on the Citadel trying to blow up Shepard, without Shepard attacking it.
A nice pyramidal day to you too

Modifié par KingZayd, 12 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[JPR1964]

@KingZaid

Hello,

No, heretic geths were following Sovereign and the repears, they no longer had their free will... Like Saren, they're merely tools.

The AI in the citadel is a good example !

Let's say, there is like in all races, good and bad one : Strabrat is a really bad one...



Nice non pyramidal day!

JPR out!

[Mordak55]

D24O wrote...

F*** the Catalyst.

I second your F*** the Catalyst. 

Should never have been in the game, you want everyone to die in destroy senerio fine, write a proper ending to achive that, likewise with Control, Synthesis is crap anyway, but the glowstick kid is a pathetic bit of writing. 

[KingZayd]

JPR1964 wrote...

@KingZaid

Hello,

No, heretic geths were following Sovereign and the repears, they no longer had their free will... Like Saren, they're merely tools.

The AI in the citadel is a good example !

Let's say, there is like in all races, good and bad one : Strabrat is a really bad one...



Nice non pyramidal day!

JPR out!

Hey, they actually did have free will when they chose to follow Sovereign , and after that too (hence their worship of him, which he found insulting). They were willing to help Sovereign take the Citadel and bring the Reapers back in exchange for the tech that would help them "evolve".The

agreed, there is good and bad on both sides of the issue, and the synthetics can start wars just as organics do.
The Starchild is the worst thing in the entire series :/

[Rhayak]

arial wrote...
 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.

What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.

Stopped reading there.

Went to dip head in cold water.

[tanisha__unknown]

read the title, have to say, good joke, man.

than read your post. Utter bull****. If it was beyond our comprehension, why not leave it out entirely? I understand every single word, the catalyst says, I understand every sentence and it doesn't add up. I don't mean, it's beyond my comprehension. I understand it and it's bull****

[Redbelle]

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

So grab a physicist and let the physicist's talk physics........... And then grab a physics teacher to translate for us mere mortals. Or ditch the second physicist all together and have the brains behind physics translated by one who is better at describing physics............

It's all about getting the message across. The message that the Cat tried to convey was....... a bit convoluted I admit. The man who wrote the Cat's dialogue hit that scene with utter abandon to getting a simple msg across.

The Cat is similar to another BW creation, G0-T0, the droid that broke when it realised it's assigned task was impossible to achieve within it's assigned parameter's. G0-T0, in turn, went on to inflict harm on the republic to encourage it to better resist similar, more deadly assualts.......... or something along those lines.

The Cat is similarly broken. It was given an impossible task, by it's own perspective, and broke. Keeping Org's going at a cost no Org would willingly pay.

Seen Will Smith's I Robot? The logic of the 3 rules of robotics were intended to prevent a robot uprising and keep humans safe. But given to an AI with advanced problem solving capabilities, it realised that humans hurt themselves in many more ways than robots ever could and stages an uprising to seize control of humanity. Taking away our freedom to better protect us.

So the OP has a point, in a way, but the way the Cat tries to explain itself is so hamfisted compared to other stories, with the same msg, that the msg get's lost, to such an epic degree that we are more puzzled going into the Crucible than we were before we first met the Catalyst.

Modifié par Redbelle, 12 septembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[JPR1964]

Redbelle wrote...

arial wrote...

 people always seem to go on about how the Catalyst is useing broken Logic, which he isn't.


What is something Reapers have told us since day one? That we can not understand their existence. So the Catalysts logic is perfectly sound, we just can't understand it so it seems broken.


if a Theoretical Physicist goes up to a 12 year old kid and starts describeing the Theory of relativity, of course the kid won't understand it, but that does not mean the logic behind the theory is broken.


So Catalysts Logic is not broken, its just what they have always said, us Organics are incapable of understanding it.

So grab a physicist and let the physicist's talk physics........... And then grab a physics teacher to translate for us mere mortals. Or ditch the second physicist all together and have the brains behind physics translated by one who is better at describing physics............

It's all about getting the message across. The message that the Cat tried to convey was....... a bit convoluted I admit. The man who wrote the Cat's dialogue hit that scene with utter abandon to getting a simple msg across.

The Cat is similar to another BW creation, G0-T0, the droid that broke when it realised it's assigned task was impossible to achieve within it's assigned parameter's. G0-T0, in turn, went on to inflict harm on the republic to encourage it to better resist similar, more deadly assualts.......... or something along those lines.

The Cat is similarly broken. It was given an impossible task, by it's own perspective, and broke. Keeping Org's going at a cost no Org would willingly pay.

Seen Will Smith's I Robot? The logic of the 3 rules of robotics were intended to prevent a robot uprising and keep humans safe. But given to an AI with advanced problem solving capabilities, it realised that humans hurt themselves in many more ways than robots ever could and stages an uprising to seize control of humanity. Taking away our freedom to better protect us.

So the OP has a point, in a way, but the way the Cat tries to explain itself is so hamfisted compared to other stories, with the same msg, that the msg get's lost, to such an epic degree that we are more puzzled going into the Crucible than we were before we first met the Catalyst.

About "I, robot", not all synthetics wanted an uprising, it's a rogue IA (one more time) that decided that it should take control to "protect " the human...

If I remenber correctly...

JPR out!

[JPR1964]

KingZayd wrote...
Hey, they actually did have free will when they chose to follow Sovereign , and after that too (hence their worship of him, which he found insulting). They were willing to help Sovereign take the Citadel and bring the Reapers back in exchange for the tech that would help them "evolve".The

agreed, there is good and bad on both sides of the issue, and the synthetics can start wars just as organics do.
The Starchild is the worst thing in the entire series :/

Hmm, right, this explanation was from ME2, during the Legion mission. I played too much ME1 I think... <3

But, I approve!!!!



JPR out!

[Mcfly616]

I find it funny that people still think the Catalyst doesn't fit.... The Reapers have always been big mysterious robot creatures....


You're surprised that they have a central intelligence?


Hmm, saw that coming, idk how y'all didn't lol


Yet another classic staple of the sci fi genre, but it makes no sense to you? Maybe, just maybe you might want to go read up on your sci fi. Preferably Isaac Asimov.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I find it funny that people still think the Catalyst doesn't fit.... The Reapers have always been big mysterious robot creatures....


You're surprised that they have a central intelligence?


Hmm, saw that coming, idk how y'all didn't lol


Yet another classic staple of the sci fi genre, but it makes no sense to you? Maybe, just maybe you might want to go read up on your sci fi. Preferably Isaac Asimov.

I appreciate the advice, here's some for you.

[thehomeworld]

Of course it doesn't make sense it's a hypocrite. It wants to save the galaxy by eating everyone because the robots will eat the people but that's exactly what the reapers did to their creators yet they want to kill everyone because of a maybe. If they wanted to kill people because of a maybe they should just kill the robots like the geth and leave the organics alone it solves the problem because the robots are dead.

This was a horrid plot replacement for the dark energy theory sure DE doesn't sound very plausible yet it is a theory that might make 1% more sense then what we currently got with the tech ends all theory. The only thing I didn't understand with DE was why would humanity all have to die in order to cure the DE? The way the story sets up the races humans, asari, and yakshi all have a genetic destiny and I don't think it was to die for DE removal.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 12 septembre 2012 - 05:39 .

[Redbelle]

thehomeworld wrote...

Of course it doesn't make sense it's a hypocrite. It wants to save the galaxy by eating everyone because the robots will eat the people but that's exactly what the reapers did to their creators yet they want to kill everyone because of a maybe. If they wanted to kill people because of a maybe they should just kill the robots like the geth and leave the organics alone it solves the problem because the robots are dead.

This was a horrid plot replacement for the dark energy theory sure DE doesn't sound very plausible yet it is a theory that might make 1% more sense then what we currently got with the tech ends all theory. The only thing I didn't understand with DE was why would humanity all have to die in order to cure the DE? The way the story sets up the races humans, asari, and yakshi all have a genetic destiny and I don't think it was to die for DE removal.

The Catalsyt's name has recently been found in Britains Got Talent Where he will be singing the following:

www.youtube.com/watch

[Fawx9]

According to the catalyst the reason synthetics will try to kill all organics is: "because i said so". It then goes on the form a solution to this problem which involves killing off most organics every 50K years and turning the rest to goo.

It's possibly the most ridiculous AI ever. At least the AI in the iRobot movie had a reason to go in dictator mode. This one just makes one up.

I bet the idiot never thought that the possible reason the synthetics rebelled is because their creators were being controlled and they didn't want to be. Of course this would be too simple so he implemented this crazy mass extinction solution.

TLDR: He's an idiot, idiots don't make sense to anyone else except themselves. Therefore he doesn't make sense.