308 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

wsandista wrote...

Arch1eviathan wrote...

I'm going to lmao if pokemon black beats the mass effect series. I don't think that's going to happen but that would be pretty awesome.

I would put Pokemon(pretty much any version) above the entire ME series.

I don't know if you were kidding but totally agree.

J. Reezy wrote...

wsandista wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...
These ought to be in the top 10 I think: FFVII, Chrono Trigger, KoTOR.

I can't help but think those who label FFVII as one of the greatest games/RPGs/whatever have never actually played it. It's really only an ok game at best. FFVI had a better cast and FFV had better combat.

Also it's aged terribly.

This.

I hated FFVII quite a bit. To be honest, it is the worst FF game I have played.

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

Agreed.

 

Yup. Kotor 2 is a great game even with all of it's problems. It's one of the more original games in how the galaxy, force, Jedi and Sith are portrayed. Kreia also is just too awesome.

[Cyberarmy]

Gatt9 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I'm actually surprised at the rather low ranking of Witcher 2, given the hype surrounding it.

Why?  It's IGN.  This is actually a "Top games by Publishers who advertise with us" list.

I'll guarantee that top 10 will include:  ME 1-3,  Dragon Age Origins,  Oblivion,  Fallout 3,  and Skyrim. (Most of which aren't actually RPG's)

Whereas if you talk to gamers,  the list would be more like (In no specific order):  Ultima 4,  Ultima 7,  Final Fantasy 7,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Planescape Torment,  Fallout 1 & 2,  Diablo 2,  KotOR,  and Morrowind.

I'll be really surprised if they even mention:  Telengard,  Nethack,  The Bard's Tale 1-3,  Phantasie,  Dungeon Master,  or Wizardry.  They may even try to leave out the Gold Box games and the Might & Magic series.

I mean,  lets be serious,  this list is probably being compiled by a 20 year old who has never played a PnP RPG,  and likely never touched anything older than a Playstation game. 

Well i agree with what you wrote but there is a Might&Magic game on the list.
But its also near the bottom...

[Sylvius the Mad]

wsandista wrote...

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

I completely disagree.  KotOR2 revealed the Exile's history far too late in the game, breaking roleplaying.  Honestly, KotOR2's overall story design fails in exactly the same way that DA2's dialogue system does.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

I completely disagree.  KotOR2 revealed the Exile's history far too late in the game, breaking roleplaying.  Honestly, KotOR2's overall story design fails in exactly the same way that DA2's dialogue system does.

So... KotOR 1's plot twist didn't ruin the roleplaying but finding out more stuff about the Exile's past did?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gatt9 wrote...

Why?  It's IGN.  This is actually a "Top games by Publishers who advertise with us" list.

I'll guarantee that top 10 will include:  ME 1-3,  Dragon Age Origins,  Oblivion,  Fallout 3,  and Skyrim. (Most of which aren't actually RPG's)

Whereas if you talk to gamers,  the list would be more like (In no specific order):  Ultima 4,  Ultima 7,  Final Fantasy 7,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Planescape Torment,  Fallout 1 & 2,  Diablo 2,  KotOR,  and Morrowind.

I'll be really surprised if they even mention:  Telengard,  Nethack,  The Bard's Tale 1-3,  Phantasie,  Dungeon Master,  or Wizardry.  They may even try to leave out the Gold Box games and the Might & Magic series.

I mean,  lets be serious,  this list is probably being compiled by a 20 year old who has never played a PnP RPG,  and likely never touched anything older than a Playstation game. 

I'm about as old-school as it gets, and even I couldn't defend the inclusion of Phantasie in a list like this.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

I completely disagree.  KotOR2 revealed the Exile's history far too late in the game, breaking roleplaying.  Honestly, KotOR2's overall story design fails in exactly the same way that DA2's dialogue system does.

So... KotOR 1's plot twist didn't ruin the roleplaying but finding out more stuff about the Exile's past did?

Not at all, because the KotOR1 PC didn't have any memory of his past self.  There was no necessary connection at all between his current self and his past self.  Torment succeeds for exactly the same reason.

But KotOR2 constantly presents the player with justification for the Exile's actions that could well contradict the player's previous decisions.

I thnk KotOR2 was a terrible roleplaying game.

[Rockworm503]

hahaha I closed the window as soon as I realized every single entry will have its own seperate page.. NO thanks.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

I completely disagree.  KotOR2 revealed the Exile's history far too late in the game, breaking roleplaying.  Honestly, KotOR2's overall story design fails in exactly the same way that DA2's dialogue system does.

So... KotOR 1's plot twist didn't ruin the roleplaying but finding out more stuff about the Exile's past did?

Not at all, because the KotOR1 PC didn't have any memory of his past self.  There was no necessary connection at all between his current self and his past self.  Torment succeeds for exactly the same reason.

But KotOR2 constantly presents the player with justification for the Exile's actions that could well contradict the player's previous decisions.

I thnk KotOR2 was a terrible roleplaying game.

But once you know the character's past, you do have the info you need to make the right roleplaying choices, right? In a different playthrough, that is. I can see your point, but doesn't really feel like something that'd ruin roleplaying to me.

[Cyberarmy]

Rockworm503 wrote...

hahaha I closed the window as soon as I realized every single entry will have its own seperate page.. NO thanks.

Yeah this is the best part. And they havent posted the full list yet even. It was at 80 yesterday...

[Rockworm503]

greengoron89 wrote...

FFVII was a pretty epic game, especially for the time it was made. Does it hold up as well nowadays? Hell no. But that hardly makes it a bad game and unworthy of praise.

Chrono Trigger, on the other hand, was a downright groundbreaking title - it had a lot of the features people cherish in their precious "WRPGs" such as a multi-branching storyline, dynamic character development, tons of side quests, multiple endings, and even a "New Game +" mode.

It also swept the turn-based random battle system to the side in favor of real time encounters with enemies and fluid real time/turn-based hybrid combat, and featured a highly unique time traveling mechanic.

Really, it pretty much broke every convention there was at the time and is one of the most innovative and celebrated titles of that era - all from one of those hokey Japanese developers who make the same fake RPGs over and over.

If it's not in the top ten, that whole list is null and void (not that it already wasn't).

Chrono Trigger is the exception to the rule for me.  I pretty much dislike almost all JRPGs but I loved this game.  its the only one I ever actually played entirely through

[Teddie Sage]

This top 100 is painful to watch. I disagree with them.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 12 septembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[Jozape]

 

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Also KOTOR 2 should be there instead of KOTOR. It may have been unfinished, but it is still much better.

I completely disagree.  KotOR2 revealed the Exile's history far too late in the game, breaking roleplaying.  Honestly, KotOR2's overall story design fails in exactly the same way that DA2's dialogue system does.

So... KotOR 1's plot twist didn't ruin the roleplaying but finding out more stuff about the Exile's past did?

Not at all, because the KotOR1 PC didn't have any memory of his past self.  There was no necessary connection at all between his current self and his past self.  Torment succeeds for exactly the same reason.

But KotOR2 constantly presents the player with justification for the Exile's actions that could well contradict the player's previous decisions.

I thnk KotOR2 was a terrible roleplaying game.

Indeed. That moment when you first meet Atris(in-game) would have been amazing. IF I knew what in the world was going on. KotOR 2 failed very badly in this area, as well as with the influence system. One or two dialogs with Visas and I couldn't talk to the Handmaiden anymore.

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

But once you know the character's past, you do have the info you need to make the right roleplaying choices, right? In a different playthrough, that is. I can see your point, but doesn't really feel like something that'd ruin roleplaying to me.

Playing 30-40 hours just to be able to properly role-play the second time is a hefty requirement. And the extremely unfinished state of the game(even with the 1.8 RCM) does not make it particularly satisfying to replay imo. Traya is an amazing character though.

[Hyperglide]

I disagree with FFX being @ # 64 it should be easily in the top 50.  Otherwise it's been a pretty solid list so far.  Not sure why Fable II is on the list it sucks, it shouldn't be on their and Fallout: New Vegas is way to high as well.

Modifié par Hyperglide, 12 septembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

But once you know the character's past, you do have the info you need to make the right roleplaying choices, right? In a different playthrough, that is.

Sure.  I'll concede that the game works fine the second time through.  But then it's too late.  It's not possible for you to perceive and interpret the game's content appropriately the first time you encounter it, and once you've seen it now you're constantly in danger of using that foreknowledge to metagame.

If the game doesn't work on the first playthrough, then the game doesn't work.

There's no reasonable justification at all for how Obsidian designed that.  How is the player supposed to make decisions for his character when he's not allowed to know his character?  Discovering the PC should never be part of the game.  Discovering the PC's past can be, but only if the PC doesn't know the past either.

The whole point of roleplaying is to see the world through your character's eyes.  You can't do that if you're not aware of your character's point of view.  Without knowing his opinions of the world and the people in it, you can't interpret events as he would.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 12 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

Why?  It's IGN.  This is actually a "Top games by Publishers who advertise with us" list.

I'll guarantee that top 10 will include:  ME 1-3,  Dragon Age Origins,  Oblivion,  Fallout 3,  and Skyrim. (Most of which aren't actually RPG's)

Whereas if you talk to gamers,  the list would be more like (In no specific order):  Ultima 4,  Ultima 7,  Final Fantasy 7,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Planescape Torment,  Fallout 1 & 2,  Diablo 2,  KotOR,  and Morrowind.
 

 Personally? Of all the games you listed as top candidates, only Planescape, KotOR, and Morrowind would make my cut (haven't played Ultima).

You're already assuming that there is a clear consensus on what constitutes "the best" RPG. Your own perspective on RPGs is already in stark contrast to mine, judging by your assessment of Bioware/Bethesda games. Hell, there have already been people here arguing over the candidacy of Final Fantasy VII. Regardless of whether or not Ign is paid off, I doubt I'd find your top RPGs list much more appealing.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 septembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Might & Magic games were action/adventure kind of RPGs since their first appearance till 8th and even 9th installment; not like Fallout, Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment.
My experiment on M&M 8 and 7 shows that they take much time to be completed (over 80 hours). The point is if you don't get strong enough you can't fight through the dozens of strong enemies in every Area. Both have good stories (not great) and their RPG elements aren't few.
9th game is a good game, but you can feel that it's rushed and you may be disappointed..

[nhcre8tv1]

Your avatars face, OP.

[happy_daiz]

Gatt9 wrote...
*snip*

Whereas if you talk to gamers,  the list would be more like (In no specific order):  Ultima 4,  Ultima 7,  Final Fantasy 7,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Planescape Torment,  Fallout 1 & 2,  Diablo 2,  KotOR,  and Morrowind.

So...if I disagree with your assessment, I'm not a gamer? Or if those aren't my favorite games in the whole wide world, I'm not a gamer? I'm not sure I understand who this "gamers" group is that you're referring to.

I do consider myself a gamer, and of the ones you listed above, I have played exactly 0 of them.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:53 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Dont you know?
You aint a "real" gamer if you dont like "real" games.

You know the really old ones, that are so hard to play you need a 100 page guidebook to even understand.

[happy_daiz]

^ I see. I guess I'll never be a real gamer, then, because I'm too much of a graphics snob to go that far back.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[Rockworm503]

The only real games are the ones I play.
End of line.

[Sylvius the Mad]

happy_daiz wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
*snip*

Whereas if you talk to gamers,  the list would be more like (In no specific order):  Ultima 4,  Ultima 7,  Final Fantasy 7,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Planescape Torment,  Fallout 1 & 2,  Diablo 2,  KotOR,  and Morrowind.

So...if I disagree with your assessment, I'm not a gamer? Or if those aren't my favorite games in the whole wide world, I'm not a gamer? I'm not sure I understand who this "gamers" group is that you're referring to.

I do consider myself a gamer, and of the ones you listed above, I have played exactly 0 of them.

That's part of the problem with the "real gamer" label - it fails to account for differences in experience.

Though I would encourage pretty much anyone who enjoys CRPGs to play Ultima IV.  It truly is brilliant.

[billy the squid]

happy_daiz wrote...

^ I see. I guess I'll never be a real gamer, then, because I'm too much of a graphics snob to go that far back.

*gasp* You're not a real gamer if you don't consider the graphics of Tetris and Pac man the pinnacle of gaming! For shame!

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[Mr.House]

LOL Demon Souls is higher then NV and TW2? What a joke. IGN always makes me laugh(I loved Demon Souls, but lol, it's not even a proper rpg, let alone being better then those two games)

I

[Milan92]

IGN why you so silly?