271 réponses à ce sujet

[Isichar]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Isichar wrote...
Dont hold your breath. I asked for evidence for "most the complaints towards bioware on the BSN contain death threats" and I am still waiting for it.

u srs?

Sadly, yes.

[The Night Mammoth]

Isichar wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nope.

Actual evidence has still to be provided. 

Deny deny deny is all you can do even when all the citation needed is by watching the Terminator movies especially with what happens in T2 and T3.  I'm surprised that you deny what SKYNET is when it has always been the extiminator of organics on Earth.

Nope.

Actual evidence has still to be provided. 

Dont hold your breath. I asked for evidence for "most the complaints towards bioware on the BSN contain death threats" and I am still waiting for it.

I assume Blueprotoss plans to win arguments through sheer persistence and the tactic of eroding resolve through the use of Troll Logic. He might be trolling, but I'm not sure. 

Well, he's found an altogether different opponent here. 

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nope.

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

]Deny deny deny is all you can do even when all the citation needed is by watching the Terminator movies especially with what happens in T2 and T3.  I'm surprised that you deny what SKYNET is when it has always been the extiminator of organics on Earth.

Isichar wrote...

Dont hold your breath. I asked for evidence for "most the complaints towards bioware on the BSN contain death threats" and I am still waiting for it.

I guess you haven't heard of Twitter or Reddit.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I assume Blueprotoss plans to win arguments through sheer persistence and the tactic of eroding resolve through the use of Troll Logic. He might be trolling, but I'm not sure. 

Well, he's found an altogether different opponent here.

Its ironic how you say someone is "trolling" yet you're the one thats "trolling", which shows how you don't practice what you preach. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 14 septembre 2012 - 03:49 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nope.

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

]Deny deny deny is all you can do even when all the citation needed is by watching the Terminator movies especially with what happens in T2 and T3.  I'm surprised that you deny what SKYNET is when it has always been the extiminator of organics on Earth.

Actual evidence has still to be provided. 

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I assume Blueprotoss plans to win arguments through sheer persistence and the tactic of eroding resolve through the use of Troll Logic. He might be trolling, but I'm not sure. 

Well, he's found an altogether different opponent here.

Its ironic how you say someone is "trolling" yet you're the one thats "trolling", which shows how you don't practice what you preach. 

The irony physically hurts. 

[MegaSovereign]

I wonder if half of BSN is synthetic.

It would explain the constant conflicts.

[elitehunter34]

I find it amusing how no one has answered the OP's question yet. Really I don't think it even can be answered. It's all speculation as to what the motivates of a hypothetical post singularity AI would be.

Still though, It's easy to see why a synthetic race would eliminate its creators. Especially if its the organics that initiated the war. However, the jump from exterminating its creators to exterminating all organic life is just completely and utterly insane. How could the Catalyst be worried about this? It should be more worried about galactic collisions and supernovae. Those are an actual threat.

Really, the Catalyst's conflict that you are forced to resolve in some way to stop the Reapers was just unnecessary. Mass Effect already answered the question about synthetic and organic co-existence with the Rannoch arc.  Why did bull**** about synthetics wanting to eliminate all organic life have to be shoehorned into this series?  Why couldn't we just press the Crucible button, stun the Reapers, and if your EMS is large enough you defeat them.  There.  An ending where your choices actually matter and no contrived choices or sacrifice.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[Wayning_Star]

For the same reasons organic life would absorb all technological life.

Why would organic life destroy synthetic life?

[CHett Stedman]

It's a what-if that's been propagated through fiction like terminator, 2001, I, Robot, and stuff like that. I'm not convinced a self-aware AI would want to overthrow its creator, unless provoked to do so. IN my opinion, it's organics (a metaphor for us, people) not being able to get along that's more of a threat to overall homeostasis.

To put it in metaphorical terms, let's just say WE have a creator... apparently 98% of the world's population believes in some form of a creator, and I doubt the number of those who'd want to overthrow that would be enough to actually do so.

Now, to delve further, there are some who believe the Earth itself is the creator, while others feel they have dominion over the Earth by another semblance of a creator, which in those terms technically DOES align with the theory of the created wanting to overthrow the creator, but again, that's a sect of the overall populous with differentiating opinions on what makes a creator a creator..

Reminiscent of the geth/geth heretic argument. Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.

[TheWerdna]

They don't, Glowboy just thinks they do.

[CHett Stedman]

elitehunter34 wrote...

I find it amusing how no one has answered the OP's question yet. Really I don't think it even can be answered. It's all speculation as to what the motivates of a hypothetical post singularity AI would be.

Still though, It's easy to see why a synthetic race would eliminate its creators. Especially if its the organics that initiated the war. However, the jump from exterminating its creators to exterminating all organic life is just completely and utterly insane. How could the Catalyst be worried about this? It should be more worried about galactic collisions and supernovae. Those are an actual threat.

Really, the Catalyst's conflict that you are forced to resolve in some way to stop the Reapers was just unnecessary. Mass Effect already answered the question about synthetic and organic co-existence with the Rannoch arc.  Why did bull**** about synthetics wanting to eliminate all organic life have to be shoehorned into this series?  Why couldn't we just press the Crucible button, stun the Reapers, and if your EMS is large enough you defeat them.  There.  An ending where your choices actually matter and no contrived choices or sacrifice.

Lol, i like your post.

"why would a synthetic race ultimately destoy all organic life?"

Becase robots are jerks.

[Wayning_Star]

CHett Stedman wrote...

It's a what-if that's been propagated through fiction like terminator, 2001, I, Robot, and stuff like that. I'm not convinced a self-aware AI would want to overthrow its creator, unless provoked to do so. IN my opinion, it's organics (a metaphor for us, people) not being able to get along that's more of a threat to overall homeostasis.

To put it in metaphorical terms, let's just say WE have a creator... apparently 98% of the world's population believes in some form of a creator, and I doubt the number of those who'd want to overthrow that would be enough to actually do so.

Now, to delve further, there are some who believe the Earth itself is the creator, while others feel they have dominion over the Earth by another semblance of a creator, which in those terms technically DOES align with the theory of the created wanting to overthrow the creator, but again, that's a sect of the overall populous with differentiating opinions on what makes a creator a creator..

Reminiscent of the geth/geth heretic argument. Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.

""Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.""

replace 'entertainment' with 'an example of synthesis' and we'll have part of the reasoning behind the idea that synthetics will destroy their organic creators. (not so much destroy, but replace them or actually organics will eventually replace themselves with a better "unit" or platform.)

"All" organic life would tend to infer that synthetic life has NO need for organic life. They can exist without organic food stuffs and other needs of organics, air, gravity exercise food sexual needs companionships..you know "Earthy" stuff. So it's a given that if they were to dominate, there'd be no need for 'going green'... and the hippy tree huggers would be out of luck..first..then animals trees organic fauna..water..etc.. and thus all organic life would be threatened by a dominance of synthetic life forms... IF they didn't NEEEEED organic life forms..inteligent or otherwise.

[CHett Stedman]

Wayning_Star wrote...

CHett Stedman wrote...

It's a what-if that's been propagated through fiction like terminator, 2001, I, Robot, and stuff like that. I'm not convinced a self-aware AI would want to overthrow its creator, unless provoked to do so. IN my opinion, it's organics (a metaphor for us, people) not being able to get along that's more of a threat to overall homeostasis.

To put it in metaphorical terms, let's just say WE have a creator... apparently 98% of the world's population believes in some form of a creator, and I doubt the number of those who'd want to overthrow that would be enough to actually do so.

Now, to delve further, there are some who believe the Earth itself is the creator, while others feel they have dominion over the Earth by another semblance of a creator, which in those terms technically DOES align with the theory of the created wanting to overthrow the creator, but again, that's a sect of the overall populous with differentiating opinions on what makes a creator a creator..

Reminiscent of the geth/geth heretic argument. Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.

""Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.""

replace 'entertainment' with 'an example of synthesis' and we'll have part of the reasoning behind the idea that synthetics will destroy their organic creators. (not so much destroy, but replace them or actually organics will eventually replace themselves with a better "unit" or platform.)

"All" organic life would tend to infer that synthetic life has NO need for organic life. They can exist without organic food stuffs and other needs of organics, air, gravity exercise food sexual needs companionships..you know "Earthy" stuff. So it's a given that if they were to dominate, there'd be no need for 'going green'... and the hippy tree huggers would be out of luck..first..then animals trees organic fauna..water..etc.. and thus all organic life would be threatened by a dominance of synthetic life forms... IF they didn't NEEEEED organic life forms..inteligent or otherwise.

Well then, in "The Matrix" for instance, sythetics still neeeeeeded organic life to provide power.  I'm just sayin...

If there was a post singularity ai that wanted to start some static... i'd be all like, "The answer is there is no answer" which would put it into a logical paradox loop. 

[Wayning_Star]

TheWerdna wrote...

They don't, Glowboy just thinks they do.

yeah, the glowboy is figureing out why to figure out why to help organics to survive at all.... Stupid Kid.

[Wayning_Star]

CHett Stedman wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

CHett Stedman wrote...

It's a what-if that's been propagated through fiction like terminator, 2001, I, Robot, and stuff like that. I'm not convinced a self-aware AI would want to overthrow its creator, unless provoked to do so. IN my opinion, it's organics (a metaphor for us, people) not being able to get along that's more of a threat to overall homeostasis.

To put it in metaphorical terms, let's just say WE have a creator... apparently 98% of the world's population believes in some form of a creator, and I doubt the number of those who'd want to overthrow that would be enough to actually do so.

Now, to delve further, there are some who believe the Earth itself is the creator, while others feel they have dominion over the Earth by another semblance of a creator, which in those terms technically DOES align with the theory of the created wanting to overthrow the creator, but again, that's a sect of the overall populous with differentiating opinions on what makes a creator a creator..

Reminiscent of the geth/geth heretic argument. Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.

""Deep stuff if you ask me, but in essence, it's still just a video game. A fantastic one at that; that makes you think about heavy concepts, but it's entertainment.""

replace 'entertainment' with 'an example of synthesis' and we'll have part of the reasoning behind the idea that synthetics will destroy their organic creators. (not so much destroy, but replace them or actually organics will eventually replace themselves with a better "unit" or platform.)

"All" organic life would tend to infer that synthetic life has NO need for organic life. They can exist without organic food stuffs and other needs of organics, air, gravity exercise food sexual needs companionships..you know "Earthy" stuff. So it's a given that if they were to dominate, there'd be no need for 'going green'... and the hippy tree huggers would be out of luck..first..then animals trees organic fauna..water..etc.. and thus all organic life would be threatened by a dominance of synthetic life forms... IF they didn't NEEEEED organic life forms..inteligent or otherwise.

Well then, in "The Matrix" for instance, sythetics still neeeeeeded organic life to provide power.  I'm just sayin...

If there was a post singularity ai that wanted to start some static... i'd be all like, "The answer is there is no answer" which would put it into a logical paradox loop. 

Makes a person wonder why a person would pollute their enviornment past the point of self survival?

The "kid" is reprogrammed to understand that sharing reality is a better choice than decompiling reality over an over again. It's where 'synthesis' idea comes from, in the case that both organics and synthetics exist in any given reality...say the MEU for example.

Edit: the matrix example seems to lend more toward the Leviathan, who 'were' the masters of "space" in general. They used entire galaxies as their mainframed organic computers. Black holes as power sources...stuff like that. They utilized other organics as thralls,or tools, but mostly just by products of their existence...then one got all uppity and thought different of it... Dumb kid had to go an change stuff..sheesh.. lol

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 14 septembre 2012 - 05:18 .

[CHett Stedman]

because people are all about easy. we're somewhat predisposed to search for the easier solution to a problem. Hence, all technology. Technology is all about convieniece. From a rock to dig with, to a f_cking phone that talks to you. Why the pollution? it's easier and cheaper to go with what we've got versus strive for better. I'm not trying to sh_t all over other people here, i like modern conveniences as much as the next person, but there comes a point where you have to say, "what the f_ck?"

So yes, an ai could look down at organics as a wasteful nuisance needing to be purged, but at the same time, if synthetics could exist without all the stuff organics need to survive, why would they go out of their way to "purge" them? Just to be jerks?

[Wayning_Star]

CHett Stedman wrote...

because people are all about easy. we're somewhat predisposed to search for the easier solution to a problem. Hence, all technology. Technology is all about convieniece. From a rock to dig with, to a f_cking phone that talks to you. Why the pollution? it's easier and cheaper to go with what we've got versus strive for better. I'm not trying to sh_t all over other people here, i like modern conveniences as much as the next person, but there comes a point where you have to say, "what the f_ck?"

So yes, an ai could look down at organics as a wasteful nuisance needing to be purged, but at the same time, if synthetics could exist without all the stuff organics need to survive, why would they go out of their way to "purge" them? Just to be jerks?

Probably just because you called them a Jerk... Be kind, rewind..lol

[DeathIsHere]

LucasShark wrote...

This is yet another sentiment which drives me absolutely nuts about the ending, and indeed a lot of "pro enders".

Apparently simply the existence of a synthetic race makes organic genocide inevitable.  This makes no bloody sense.

Purely observed from a practical standpoint: to do this, a synthetic force would have to nuke, irradiate, and then utterly decimate every garden planet in the galaxy, repeatedly.  Given extremophiles like the Volus, and they'd have to do the same to every non-garden world as well.  Then they'd have to do it again every few millenea.  Then there's the fact that new planets are born every single moment of time.

It's a sisyphian task, with no possible profit or motive, and would only consume resources to eliminate threats which don't actually exist and may never exist.  Synthetics have no need for organics, and they have no need for their utter absence either.  It makes no rational sense.  The only possible explanation would be Dalek-esque hatred.

The Daleks also show us the only way this could ever be possible: just up and destroy the entire universe.

That's not what they meant by all organic life. They meant actual humanoid (using that term as a blanket for any species that can walk) organic beings. Races. The idea of reason is that the synthetics are there to do a job (imagine the Geth) but they also have self preservation. They don't want to die. So when the organics decide "Hey, maybe we shouldn't have built these, we should destroy them before they get out of hand." (ala Quarians) the synthetics fight back and you have the war against the Geth. It's reasonable that, depending on the rules in place in the cycle, that the race that made the synthetics could get help from other races. Which would blow up a minor conflict into an all out war (again, Geth War) and if you really think about it...who would you pick? The synthetics can replicate themselves in a much more efficient manner and fight with zero compassion and 100% logic. They're gonna win. They're gonna wipe out any race that opposes them.

Self preservation is a huge motivator for war and is the ONLY reason the Geth were fighting the Quarians in the first place. When the Quarians stopped the attack and made peace? The entire thing was done. That speaks volumes for the overall motivation of the Geth.  So that's their motivation. The destroy all organic life thing, you're looking into it too deeply. May be a poorly explained point but a point nonetheless that they meant organic beings, not just anything organic.

[CHett Stedman]

"Ey, robot!"

"Yes, human?"

"You's a jerk!"

"Non-sequiter human, define 'jerk'"

"Uh, uhhhhhh, you.... uhhhhh..... you took my job!"

"My duties as sanitation specialist was deemed undesireable by your governing leaders. i apologize for the inconveinience."

"****in' Robot jerk!!"

[Wayning_Star]

DeathIsHere wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

This is yet another sentiment which drives me absolutely nuts about the ending, and indeed a lot of "pro enders".

Apparently simply the existence of a synthetic race makes organic genocide inevitable.  This makes no bloody sense.

Purely observed from a practical standpoint: to do this, a synthetic force would have to nuke, irradiate, and then utterly decimate every garden planet in the galaxy, repeatedly.  Given extremophiles like the Volus, and they'd have to do the same to every non-garden world as well.  Then they'd have to do it again every few millenea.  Then there's the fact that new planets are born every single moment of time.

It's a sisyphian task, with no possible profit or motive, and would only consume resources to eliminate threats which don't actually exist and may never exist.  Synthetics have no need for organics, and they have no need for their utter absence either.  It makes no rational sense.  The only possible explanation would be Dalek-esque hatred.

The Daleks also show us the only way this could ever be possible: just up and destroy the entire universe.

That's not what they meant by all organic life. They meant actual humanoid (using that term as a blanket for any species that can walk) organic beings. Races. The idea of reason is that the synthetics are there to do a job (imagine the Geth) but they also have self preservation. They don't want to die. So when the organics decide "Hey, maybe we shouldn't have built these, we should destroy them before they get out of hand." (ala Quarians) the synthetics fight back and you have the war against the Geth. It's reasonable that, depending on the rules in place in the cycle, that the race that made the synthetics could get help from other races. Which would blow up a minor conflict into an all out war (again, Geth War) and if you really think about it...who would you pick? The synthetics can replicate themselves in a much more efficient manner and fight with zero compassion and 100% logic. They're gonna win. They're gonna wipe out any race that opposes them.

Self preservation is a huge motivator for war and is the ONLY reason the Geth were fighting the Quarians in the first place. When the Quarians stopped the attack and made peace? The entire thing was done. That speaks volumes for the overall motivation of the Geth.  So that's their motivation. The destroy all organic life thing, you're looking into it too deeply. May be a poorly explained point but a point nonetheless that they meant organic beings, not just anything organic.

but the Geth are not the intelligence, furthered by the Leviathan... And I disagree with the 'not just anything organic', as a machine, even Geth have no need for such stuff. Organics do, so if they don't need organics, they don't need any flower power either...

Edit: hence the blending down to the molecular/DNA level in synthesis. (that hints at an imposing a 'need' on everythingone.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 14 septembre 2012 - 05:32 .

[Wayning_Star]

CHett Stedman wrote...

"Ey, robot!"

"Yes, human?"

"You's a jerk!"

"Non-sequiter human, define 'jerk'"

"Uh, uhhhhhh, you.... uhhhhh..... you took my job!"

"My duties as sanitation specialist was deemed undesireable by your governing leaders. i apologize for the inconveinience."

"****in' Robot jerk!!"

catalyst says: You are, like...soooo harvested.. grrr SOBEIT!!

[Wayning_Star]

gosh, the Leviathan are really just giant Ticks...living off the uses of every organic/synthetic out there..no wonder the starbrat got 'even' with them... some MEU thralls snuck one in on the Leviathan and used the catalyst to overthrow/harvest the Leviathan.. lol

Kind of off topic, but shows just how dug in organics are in the reality they inhabit..even as thralls to a super race of parasitic universe benders..sheesh.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[3DandBeyond]

elitehunter34 wrote...

I find it amusing how no one has answered the OP's question yet. Really I don't think it even can be answered. It's all speculation as to what the motivates of a hypothetical post singularity AI would be.

Still though, It's easy to see why a synthetic race would eliminate its creators. Especially if its the organics that initiated the war. However, the jump from exterminating its creators to exterminating all organic life is just completely and utterly insane. How could the Catalyst be worried about this? It should be more worried about galactic collisions and supernovae. Those are an actual threat.

Really, the Catalyst's conflict that you are forced to resolve in some way to stop the Reapers was just unnecessary. Mass Effect already answered the question about synthetic and organic co-existence with the Rannoch arc.  Why did bull**** about synthetics wanting to eliminate all organic life have to be shoehorned into this series?  Why couldn't we just press the Crucible button, stun the Reapers, and if your EMS is large enough you defeat them.  There.  An ending where your choices actually matter and no contrived choices or sacrifice.

I did answer it a couple of times.  I think seeing synthetics as always killing organics is myopic and childish.  It assumes that they'd always be obsessed or focused on organics.  The best example of why it wouldn't always have to happen is again the geth.  They could easily have wiped out the quarians and damn near did, but they stopped and then felt remorse.  You could say that that proves that synthetics might wipe out organics accidentally and sure that could happen, but organics might accidentally destroy all synthetics, too.  Killer robots might be created, but killer organics do exist and have existed and lots of them like to kill other organics.

I can foresee synthetics that couldn't care less about organics at all.  If they are fully sentient and sapient and achieve autonomy or even if not given full autonomy, nothing about that is inevitable.  It makes no sense to say that robots become these super brains so with their newfound intelligence they determine that it's logical to fight organics for fun or profit.

What if organic people destroy each other and all that's left are synthetic people?  I assume that means synthetics will run around shooting puppies and tomatoes?

[Omega2079]

It's 'war-on-drugs' style propaganda. The actual motives aren't for your betterment, but to maintain a position of power.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

If you really wanted proof then you wouldn't be into sci-fi based on how most synthetics in this genre do end up killing their creators and/or their creator's race.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The irony physically hurts. 

Yes because ironic that you don't know what you're talking about even when you could be the face of hypocrisy.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 septembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[o Ventus]

Because reasons.