271 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

In "The Terminator" series, Skynet wanted to kill all organic life because of a programming error. It was told to "eliminate all threats" by people who didn't consider that they were arguably a threat themselves.

It's arguably the same thing with the Catalyst and Leviathans. Their own arrogance led them to develop the most powerful AI in creation, but not instill any guidelines in its function other than "find a solution". Big surprise when it found a solution that didn't work out for them. Not.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

If you really wanted proof then you wouldn't be into sci-fi based on how most synthetics in this genre do end up killing their creators and/or their creator's race.

Irrelevant.

Actual evidence has still to be provided. 

Yes because ironic that you don't know what you're talking about even when you could be the face of hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy? 

[WhiteKnyght]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

If you really wanted proof then you wouldn't be into sci-fi based on how most synthetics in this genre do end up killing their creators and/or their creator's race.

Irrelevant.

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

Correct. This is why the genre is called "science fiction" and not "science fact"

We wont actually know what synthetic life will do until we reach singularity. If we even get that far.

If I were to guess humanity's future based on the history of any one race in ME, it'd be the krogan. We'll probably wreck our world with nuclear war before we do as the Quarians do.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Irrelevant.

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

This is still semantical.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Hypocrisy?

Facts isn't your strength just like insults.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Irrelevant.

Actual evidence has still to be provided.

This is still semantical.

So it's now semantical because you don't want to provide any. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Hypocrisy?

Facts isn't your strength just like insults.

Facts certainly aren't yours either.

[Hydralysk]

Blueprotoss wrote...
If you really wanted proof then you wouldn't be into sci-fi based on how most synthetics in this genre do end up killing their creators and/or their creator's race.

Wait wait wait, so you're saying that the starbrat's idea is justified because in other science fiction works robots are evil? That doesn't make a lick of sense, for all intents and purposes the Mass Effect universe exists in a vacuum, otherwise I could justify an ending where Jedi show up and win the last battle through battle meditation.

Evidence for the blanket statement that AI's will kill their creators has to be provided in the mass effect universe. Despite any similarities you can't just take plot points from other stories because for all intents and purposes those universes do not exist in the mass effect universe and thus any events that happen within them are completely irrelevent to mass effect.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Sci fi fans aren't supposed to use their critical thinking skills apparently. And most incarnations of AI in the genre end up turning on their creator therefore all incarnations of the genre must follow this train of thought, just like in star wars. R2 D2 murdered Han Solo you know.

[o Ventus]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Sci fi fans aren't supposed to use their critical thinking skills apparently. And most incarnations of AI in the genre end up turning on their creator therefore all incarnations of the genre must follow this train of thought, just like in star wars. R2 D2 murdered Han Solo you know.

Oh, did you see that deleted scene for Revenge of the Sith? The one where C-3PO duels Anakin to the death and cuts his hand off?

[GreyLycanTrope]

o Ventus wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Sci fi fans aren't supposed to use their critical thinking skills apparently. And most incarnations of AI in the genre end up turning on their creator therefore all incarnations of the genre must follow this train of thought, just like in star wars. R2 D2 murdered Han Solo you know.

Oh, did you see that deleted scene for Revenge of the Sith? The one where C-3PO duels Anakin to the death and cuts his hand off?

Best scene ever I can't believe they it ended up getting cut

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

So it's now semantical because you don't want to provide any.

It is semantical since syngularity hasn't happened yet in real life just like alien contact.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Facts certainly aren't yours either.

How is that when I'm looking at the facts that robots will eventually cause problems but we don't know how bad the reaction will be until it happens.

[Blueprotoss]

Hydralysk wrote...

Wait wait wait, so you're saying that the starbrat's idea is justified because in other science fiction works robots are evil? That doesn't make a lick of sense, for all intents and purposes the Mass Effect universe exists in a vacuum, otherwise I could justify an ending where Jedi show up and win the last battle through battle meditation.

The Catalyst isn't evil even when its doesn't have a conscience since it has no soul.  Ironically the Jedi could win through mediation especially if one was as powerful as Yoda.

Hydralysk wrote... 

Evidence for the blanket statement that AI's will kill their creators has to be provided in the mass effect universe. Despite any similarities you can't just take plot points from other stories because for all intents and purposes those universes do not exist in the mass effect universe and thus any events that happen within them are completely irrelevent to mass effect.

AIs killing their masters is relevant in ME like the Morning War, EDI on the Lunar base, the AI bank machine, and so on.  ME adopts a lot of other sci-fi just like what Star Trek and Star Wars previously did.

[Hydralysk]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Wait wait wait, so you're saying that the starbrat's idea is justified because in other science fiction works robots are evil? That doesn't make a lick of sense, for all intents and purposes the Mass Effect universe exists in a vacuum, otherwise I could justify an ending where Jedi show up and win the last battle through battle meditation.

The Catalyst isn't evil even when its doesn't have a conscience since it has no soul.  Ironically the Jedi could win through mediation especially if one was as powerful as Yoda.

Except that they couldn't since Jedi's/battle mediation/Yoda do not exist in ME.

Blueprotoss wrote... 

Hydralysk wrote... 

Evidence for the blanket statement that AI's will kill their creators has to be provided in the mass effect universe. Despite any similarities you can't just take plot points from other stories because for all intents and purposes those universes do not exist in the mass effect universe and thus any events that happen within them are completely irrelevent to mass effect.

AIs killing their masters is relevant in ME like the Morning War, EDI on the Lunar base, the AI bank machine, and so on.  ME adopts a lot of other sci-fi just like what Star Trek and Star Wars previously did.

AI's turning against their master and wiping out organics would be relevant, if it happened. It doesn't. Every single conflict between organic and synthetic in the ME universe has either resulted in organics winning, or making peace with synthetics. There is no evidence provided that synthetics will eventually wipe out all organics, or even that synthetics are inherently hostile to organics. I don't care if ME adopts a theme, but you can't adopt a theme out of the blue in the last 20 minutes and expect it to work, it needs to be explained and reinforced with supporting facts throughout the series becasue otherwise it has no basis. 

Listen well, the fact that synthetics destroy organics in other sci fi settings DOES. NOT. MATTER. It's completly irrelevant to mass effect and therefore any actions synthetics took in Star Trek or Star Wars have no bearing, in the least, on events in the Mass Effect universe.

The ONLY synthetics that matter at all in regards to the ME plot are those who are a part of the ME plot, I honestly can't understand how you fail to comprehend this.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:37 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...
It is semantical since syngularity hasn't happened yet in real life just like alien contact.

Nah, it's suddenly semantical because you can't win. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Facts certainly aren't yours either.

How is that when I'm looking at the facts that robots will eventually cause problems but we don't know how bad the reaction will be until it happens.

Whaaaaaaat?

That's completely unrelated to what I was saying. 

To be more exact though, that's a prediction, not a fact. 

[fr33stylez]

I never got why I should care about the supposed 'problem' the Catalyst was trying to solve. Sure, it makes its stupid baseless claim about all organics being exterminated. So what?

It's obvious that even if the Catalyst could back up its claims, it has failed SPECTACULARLY in the eyes of the galaxy in addressing its problem. The resolution to the Catalyst's problem involves systematically processing every sentient organic in the galaxy into goo. This is not a acceptable 'solution' by anyone's standards, I think we can all agree on this.

Why is ME3 trying to convince me in the last 5 minutes that I should care about the Catalyst's Problem, not you know, The Reaper Problem?

It's nothing more than a distraction to the central plot. If machines will someday rise you and exterminate all organics for whatever reason, the galaxy should attempt to solve it. This scenario is NOT presented in the ME universe until the last 5 minutes when Glowboy brings it up. No one playing this game was honestly thinking this was the goal of the ME trilogy - to stop organic extermination not caused by the Reapers.

But we don't need an AI and monsters that indoctrinates people, huskifies women and children and destroys entire civilizations telling me it's trying to help us. Furthermore, I'm not inclined to believe the validity of the Catalyst's claim and its intellect if the best solution it could think of in a billion years was this.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:27 .

[thefallen2far]

LucasShark wrote...

The Daleks also show us the only way this could ever be possible: just up and destroy the entire universe.

Daleks are organics with mechanical upgrades [like a plunger for a hand].  Every Dalek has an organic goo in it's center, that they built around.  Their attitudes are similar with other overbearing alien species.  It's possible you meant Cybermen which were originally humans, but the Cyberman Programing wipes out orgainic's humanity, and they want to wipe out the all other sentient life in the universe.  That said, they make more sense.  they're trying to upgrade the universe... it's not like they're doing something stupid like...... I don't know..... creating synthetics to wipe out organics so the organics don't create synthetics to wipe out organics..... that would be a stupid concept for a villain race.

Modifié par thefallen2far, 16 septembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[Hydralysk]

thefallen2far wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

The Daleks also show us the only way this could ever be possible: just up and destroy the entire universe.

Daleks are organics with mechanical upgrades [like a plunger for a hand].  Every Dalek has an organic goo in it's center, that they built around.  Their attitudes are similar with other overbearing alien species.  It's possible you meant Cybermen which were originally humans, but the Cyberman Programing wipes out orgainic's humanity, and they want to wipe out the all other sentient life in the universe.  That said, they make more sense.  they're trying to upgrade the universe... it's not like they're doing something stupid like...... I don't know..... creating synthetics to wipe out organics so the organics don't create synthetics to wipe out organics..... that would be a stupid concept for a villain race.

Oh god, not the cybermen....
 

[thefallen2far]

[quote]Hydralysk wrote...

[/quote]

Oh god, not the cybermen....
 

[/quote]

No, these guys

 
 
Cybermen vs. Daleks was AWESOME.  "Delete" "Exterminate" "Delete" "Exterminate".

Modifié par thefallen2far, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nah, it's suddenly semantical because you can't win.

It still semantical since syngularity hasn't happened yet in real life just like alien contact.  Btw nobody here can see the future or time travel to the future.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Whaaaaaaat?

That's completely unrelated to what I was saying. 

To be more exact though, that's a prediction, not a fact. /quote]

Again how is that when I'm looking at the facts that robots will eventually cause problems but we don't know how bad the reaction will be until it happens.  To say that robots have no possibility of revolting organics is like saying that no organic has no possibility of revoting against their own blood or parents.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nah, it's suddenly semantical because you can't win.

It still semantical since syngularity hasn't happened yet in real life just like alien contact.  Btw nobody here can see the future or time travel to the future.

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Terminator. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Whaaaaaaat?

That's completely unrelated to what I was saying. 

To be more exact though, that's a prediction, not a fact.

Again how is that when I'm looking at the facts that robots will eventually cause problems but we don't know how bad the reaction will be until it happens.

Oh, you have a lot of facts concerning robots as intelligent as humans do you? Hilarious. You aren't 'looking at the facts', you're making a prediction. Consult a dictionary concerning the word 'prediction' before you reply. 

To say that robots have no possibility of revolting organics is like saying that no organic has no possibility of revoting against their own blood or parents.

Strawman. I said nothing of the sort. 

[AlanC9]

fr33stylez wrote...

I never got why I should care about the supposed 'problem' the Catalyst was trying to solve. Sure, it makes its stupid baseless claim about all organics being exterminated. So what?

It's obvious that even if the Catalyst could back up its claims, it has failed SPECTACULARLY in the eyes of the galaxy in addressing its problem. The resolution to the Catalyst's problem involves systematically processing every sentient organic in the galaxy into goo. This is not a acceptable 'solution' by anyone's standards, I think we can all agree on this.

Why is ME3 trying to convince me in the last 5 minutes that I should care about the Catalyst's Problem, not you know, The Reaper Problem?

I agree with the first paragraph here, but that doesn't get me to the last paragraph. My Sheps don't think the conflict is necessarily inevitable. It's interesting to hear what this was all about, but it doesn't have much to do with the final decision.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Terminator.

Yet singularity and time travel were in Terminator.  You can easily say that singurlarity won't happen in our life time, but its not impossible for singularity won't happen like a Nuclear War being a possiblity in our life tme.

The Night Mammoth wrote...  

Oh, you have a lot of facts concerning robots as intelligent as humans do you? Hilarious. You aren't 'looking at the facts', you're making a prediction. Consult a dictionary concerning the word 'prediction' before you reply.

Robots will eventually overthrow organics just like how the the organic children of organics rebel.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Strawman. I said nothing of the sort.

Yet the strawman is coming from you based on how nobody can predict the future even if you came from the future because of the infinite amount of dimensions that exist. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:20 .

[b1n0ry]

You guys are making me think that we evolved to the level we are today because of peaceful cooperation with organisms. No, our ancestors did not cooperate with them, instead they battled for the same resources and eventually drove organisms to extinction. It's called survival of the fittest. This is the norm of the universe which is that no two species can co-exist for too long. The same process applies to synthetics and organic, with the synthetics coming out on top because of exponential growth.

If you want an example, listen to what Legion said about the Geth in Mass Effect 2. The Geth wanted to create a mega structure, a Dyson Sphere. You cannot even imagine the resources needed to create such a construct--maybe enough resources to strip a biological planet of all resources. What will become of organic life then? Extinction of course. This process would likely repeat as the star sized structure would likely want to replicate. Maybe this new Geth Intelligence would figure out a more efficient way to reproduce in which it would simply install a Dyson Sphere around a star and capture all of its energy, rendering the entire solar system dead.

Modifié par kRaYzi3, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:50 .