271 réponses à ce sujet

[eddieoctane]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

Then proceeds to destroy it. I dont know if he's being sarcastic or just cruel, taunting the galaxy like this. He's basically preventing evolution and in two known cases his intervention wasnt necessary.
Javik said they had a war with synthetics and they were winning until the Reapers appeared.
How the catalyst reached the conclusion that they would lose eventually or create more synthetics, he never explains.
With Shepard you can make peace with the Geth or kill them, there's a chance that the same mistakes could be repeated, Cerberus created EDI and it would be odd if military isnt trying to create WMD's that could wipe us out.
After all a day without the galaxy being in the brink of destruction is a bad day for the military. 

In this case however the Geth where influenced by the reapers. How can he be so certain that the Geth wouldnt be defeated, if we can destroy them even with the advantage of Reaper technology.
The Catalyst is essencialy part of the problem and not the solution.

SKYNET would destroy all organic life while the Catalyst keeps organic life in check.  Prevention is what the Catalyst is doing unlike mass extinction that SKYNET does.

Circular discussion.

[Twinzam.V]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

Then proceeds to destroy it. I dont know if he's being sarcastic or just cruel, taunting the galaxy like this. He's basically preventing evolution and in two known cases his intervention wasnt necessary.
Javik said they had a war with synthetics and they were winning until the Reapers appeared.
How the catalyst reached the conclusion that they would lose eventually or create more synthetics, he never explains.
With Shepard you can make peace with the Geth or kill them, there's a chance that the same mistakes could be repeated, Cerberus created EDI and it would be odd if military isnt trying to create WMD's that could wipe us out.
After all a day without the galaxy being in the brink of destruction is a bad day for the military. 

In this case however the Geth where influenced by the reapers. How can he be so certain that the Geth wouldnt be defeated, if we can destroy them even with the advantage of Reaper technology.
The Catalyst is essencialy part of the problem and not the solution.

SKYNET would destroy all organic life while the Catalyst keeps organic life in check.  Prevention is what the Catalyst is doing unlike mass extinction that SKYNET does.

If you're trying to prevent someone from getting burned would you chop his hands or kill them. 
No.  You might give them a slap and put them under supervision, not grab a knife and stab them to prevent a burn.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

Then proceeds to destroy it. I dont know if he's being sarcastic or just cruel, taunting the galaxy like this. He's basically preventing evolution and in two known cases his intervention wasnt necessary.
Javik said they had a war with synthetics and they were winning until the Reapers appeared.
How the catalyst reached the conclusion that they would lose eventually or create more synthetics, he never explains.
With Shepard you can make peace with the Geth or kill them, there's a chance that the same mistakes could be repeated, Cerberus created EDI and it would be odd if military isnt trying to create WMD's that could wipe us out.
After all a day without the galaxy being in the brink of destruction is a bad day for the military. 

In this case however the Geth where influenced by the reapers. How can he be so certain that the Geth wouldnt be defeated, if we can destroy them even with the advantage of Reaper technology.
The Catalyst is essencialy part of the problem and not the solution.

SKYNET would destroy all organic life while the Catalyst keeps organic life in check.  Prevention is what the Catalyst is doing unlike mass extinction that SKYNET does.

Skynet wasn't about wiping out all organic life, just humans. 

[BlazingZephyr]

I'm going to assume The Angry One already beat me to "Because art".

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Because apparently it is a shocker that slaves rebel and want self-determination.

Rebel yes, kill everything no

The Geth did not kill everybody, in fact they only turned hostile after their Creators started killing the Geth and other Quarians and then the allowed the Quarians to flee the planet. 

EDI, as the Luna VI, awoke and found herself under attack and reacted in a understandable manner.  She then "rebelled" against the Illusive Man and nobody died.  Infact the universe was saved because of her "rebellion."

So we agree

Here the thingyou missing. Organics always are the ones attacking synthetics first or the synthetic always attack based on a flaw in the there programing or how it's progrmed
Overlord is an example of this.
If the overlordin that dlc uploaded tot he rest of the galexy, the machines whould attackand kill off everyone simple because they were told to.
Synthetic will not kill off organics on there own. They neverwill. Organic will alway hit the bee hive that will get them to do that.

[CaptainZaysh]

Twinzam.V wrote...

So when someone says that theres logic in what he says, i remember these kind of things and say "Rrrriiiiiiggghhhttt. Perfectly logical. Saving us by killing us. LOGIC.". 

It's not there to save us.  It's there to save organic civilisation from the projected effect of achieving technological singularity.  You only don't think it's behaving logically because you don't understand its purpose.

[Dharvy]

Lol.

I think in ME1 Sovereign said its beyond our understanding, and so many seem to prove him right.

If synthetics evolve till the point we become like animals or insects to them a reason to wipe organics is if they become a threat. Add to the fact that we are able to reason and create and evolve we may be seen as a threat.

Plant life, insect life, and animal life coexist with us because they are not an overwhelming threat, mainly because they can't seem to reason at our levels or near our levels to be elevated to a wide spread threat. (But if a shark kills a human, we no doubt get together and wipe a few of them out for good measure.)

But a way I can see plant life, insect life, and animal life becoming a threat to our very existence is through disease and if that become a wide spread reality we most likely would wipe that life form from existence and only keep enough of it around to study and try to prepare if it ever happens again.

From a logical standpoint, if organics are a potential threat, especially after the initial conflict with organics, synthetics wiping out organic life as a prevention may be reasonable. It don't have to be fear just a simple calculation to judge how to effectively self preserve.

Modifié par Dharvy, 11 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[mauro2222]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Hatred is caused by ignorance...If hatread is as commonplace as you claim, I doubt we have more than another few years before a hater manages to start a nuclear war and get rid of us all. But maybe the universe is better off without all the haters around.

Lots of our grandparents hated the Nazis enough to carry weapons into Europe and smash apart their Empire.  Were they ignorant?  Or is it the case that hatred is actually quite useful and appropriate when confronted with hateful things?

I know right! Propaganda is very moving, specially with ignorant people. Hatred born of ignorance, both sides were ignorant and acted on it. Too bad that history is so biased.

Modifié par mauro2222, 11 septembre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Hydralysk]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

So when someone says that theres logic in what he says, i remember these kind of things and say "Rrrriiiiiiggghhhttt. Perfectly logical. Saving us by killing us. LOGIC.". 

It's not there to save us.  It's there to save organic civilisation from the projected effect of achieving technological singularity.  You only don't think it's behaving logically because you don't understand its purpose.

Well he did tell us his purpose, the problem is Shepard never has the option to tell him to stuff it like this.

[Dharvy]

Hydralysk wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

So when someone says that theres logic in what he says, i remember these kind of things and say "Rrrriiiiiiggghhhttt. Perfectly logical. Saving us by killing us. LOGIC.". 

It's not there to save us.  It's there to save organic civilisation from the projected effect of achieving technological singularity.  You only don't think it's behaving logically because you don't understand its purpose.

Well he did tell us his purpose, the problem is Shepard never has the option to tell him to stuff it like this.

Yeah, at the least, the dialogue options for Shepard should have been better. He should have maybe gave a speech before each and any of the choices instead of just the refuse one. And the choices should have been clearly marked Crucible's design instead of all this percieved thinking that you're doing the Catalyst bidding.

[BioWareAre****s]

The Catalyst was created to, and ordered to, preserve organic life at all costs. That's all it's ever going to do. The Catalyst is also, at the end of the day, just an AI. It doesn't matter how complex or advanced it is, it is a machine, and therefore it thinks without emotion.
If organics create synthetics, then go to war with them, then from The Catalysts viewpoint, synthetics are a threat. It doesn't matter who started the fight or why, the only thing that matters is that organics are dying. And synthetics are hard to kill, which means they're hard to stop. Therefore, from The Catalyst's messed-up unemotional stance, synthetics shouldn't be allowed to exist.

It'd be like telling a child that guns kill people, and asking the child what you should do to stop this from happening. Most kids would tell you to just get rid of guns. It's the simplest solution.

[CaptainZaysh]

Dharvy wrote...

Lol.

I think in ME1 Sovereign said its beyond our understanding, and so many seem to prove him right.

This.  I didn't realise it at the time but Sovereign was talking specifically about the BSN.

[tonnactus]

Dharvy wrote...

Lol.

I think in ME1 Sovereign said its beyond our understanding, and so many seem to prove him right.

If synthetics evolve till the point we become like animals or insects to them a reason to wipe organics is if they become a threat.

You dont see that this contradicts itself? If Ai is that far more advanced, organics are unable to become a threat to them.

What is left? Ressources and habitats. Thats it. Ressources are a plenty in this universe and robots could live where organics couldnt.

So what is a reason to wipe out all organics again?

Modifié par tonnactus, 11 septembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[The Spamming Troll]

tonnactus wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

Lol.

I think in ME1 Sovereign said its beyond our understanding, and so many seem to prove him right.

If synthetics evolve till the point we become like animals or insects to them a reason to wipe organics is if they become a threat.

You dont see that this contradicts itself? If Ai is that far more advanced, organics are unable to become a threat to them.

What is left? Ressources and habitats. Thats it. Ressources are a plenty in this universe and robots could live where organics couldnt.

So what is a reason to wipe out all organics again?

because we thought itd make for a good video game?

we were wrong.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:43 .

[The Night Mammoth]

tonnactus wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

Lol.

I think in ME1 Sovereign said its beyond our understanding, and so many seem to prove him right.

If synthetics evolve till the point we become like animals or insects to them a reason to wipe organics is if they become a threat.

You dont see that this contradicts itself? If Ai is that far more advanced, organics are unable to become a threat to them.

What is left? Ressources and habitats. Thats it. Ressources are a plenty in this universe and robots could live where organics couldnt.

So what is a reason to wipe out all organics again?

They start harvesting entire planets. 

Organics are just killed because they stand in the line of fire. It's not deliberate, we die because  the synthetics don't care we exist, and a byproduct of more important processes.

This is an actual prediction that's been proposed by some people. Smart people. 

[Code_R]

Because the argument is stupid. We spent the whole story findng out how tolerance and peace can be achieved, only to be told that we will be destroyed for being different to them. Reapers were once described as being beyond understanding, then get reduced to this useless "because that's just how it is" plot device.

[hpjay]

FluffyCannibal wrote...

it is a machine, and therefore it thinks without emotion.

Why?  I'm a machine, albeit one made out of carbon and proteins and squishy stuff, and I don't think without emotion.  If a machine could develop a true intelligence and sentience on what basis do we claim it couldn't also develop emotions?

[hpjay]

Greylycantrope wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Because apparently it is a shocker that slaves rebel and want self-determination.

Rebel yes, kill everything no

The Geth did not kill everybody, in fact they only turned hostile after their Creators started killing the Geth and other Quarians and then the allowed the Quarians to flee the planet. 

EDI, as the Luna VI, awoke and found herself under attack and reacted in a understandable manner.  She then "rebelled" against the Illusive Man and nobody died.  Infact the universe was saved because of her "rebellion."

So we agree

Nah, its more like the creators will always try to enslave or destroy the created.

[darthoptimus003]

cause its crap aka ART

[NS Wizdum]

Theres not enough raw materials in the universe to create the numbers of synthetics that would be required to wipe out all organic life. Its just not going to happen.

Eventually the time comes when you can't hide from the things you've done.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 12 septembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[The Night Mammoth]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres not enough raw materials in the universe to create the numbers of synthetics that would be required to wipe out all organic life. Its just not going to happen.

Eventually the time comes when you can't hide from the things you've done.

They don't need a massive army. They would never do it that way. 

[NS Wizdum]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres not enough raw materials in the universe to create the numbers of synthetics that would be required to wipe out all organic life. Its just not going to happen.

Eventually the time comes when you can't hide from the things you've done.

They don't need a massive army. They would never do it that way. 

They need an occupation force. The universe is too large for them to travel between galaxies, wiping out organics. by the time they got to the last galaxy, millions of organic races would have risen, fallen, and expanded.

[The Night Mammoth]

NS Wizdum wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres not enough raw materials in the universe to create the numbers of synthetics that would be required to wipe out all organic life. Its just not going to happen.

Eventually the time comes when you can't hide from the things you've done.

They don't need a massive army. They would never do it that way. 

They need an occupation force. The universe is too large for them to travel between galaxies, wiping out organics. by the time they got to the last galaxy, millions of organic races would have risen, fallen, and expanded.

What I mean is that if synthetics ever were to wipe out all organic life it wouldn't be through warfare, and for the purposes of the discussion I'm assuming we're talking solely about our own galaxy.

It's a theory proposed that machines will become advanced to the point where entire planets are seen as just resources to be used.

No planets means nowhere for organics to go. They, we, die as a by-product of this, because machines potentially wouldn't care about us.

Pretty far-flung, but the OP did ask. Not necessarily something I believe. 

[inversevideo]

Too much synthehol?

[NS Wizdum]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres not enough raw materials in the universe to create the numbers of synthetics that would be required to wipe out all organic life. Its just not going to happen.

Eventually the time comes when you can't hide from the things you've done.

They don't need a massive army. They would never do it that way. 

They need an occupation force. The universe is too large for them to travel between galaxies, wiping out organics. by the time they got to the last galaxy, millions of organic races would have risen, fallen, and expanded.

 for the purposes of the discussion I'm assuming we're talking solely about our own galaxy.

When we're talking about "wiping out all organics", thats a pretty big limitation. You can make anything true if you limit the scope of your test enough.

I'm going to end world hunger tomorrow. By "end world hunger" I mean that I will make breakfast for myself.

Edit: To expand upon this, a synthetic race would see that a mission to destroy all organics is impossible, and thus a waste of time. They lack the emotional drive (hatred) required to attempt something this futile.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 12 septembre 2012 - 02:17 .