289 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

Pitznik wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet its not a Captial ship because the visuals says that its a lot smaller then a Capital ship.

Visual evidence trumph visual conjecture. 

Yet you're still wrong.

Saying "you're wrong" enough times trumps actual proof. Right?

If I was wrong then you wouldn't have flipped the table based on your anger.

[Isichar]

Oh look, more BP trolling.

The good old "I'm right and your wrong" bulletproof argument.

[Rex Fallout]

Terravas wrote...
It wouldn't be right if a conventional victory was possible. It was stated several times throughout the game that winning conventionally just wasn't going to work. If it did, then what was the whole point in building the Crucible at all?

Now if the Crucible simply just crippled the Reapers instead of what it currently does now, so that a conventional victory would be possible, then I could see it as a possibility.

Edit: Just to correct a small spelling mistake on my part.

It was stated in ME3 that conventional victory was not possible.  We are lead to believe throughout the rest of the series that we make a career out doing what some call 'impossible'.  We are lead to believe that we CAN defeat the reapers, and that something like the crucible could technically 'help' but it really isn't needed.  

Why spend so many resources building a device that you DON'T KNOW WHAT IT DOES.  Just off the hope that previous races got it right?  As opposed to, oh I don't know, using those resources to build more ships, outfit all ships with thannix cannons, etc.  I mean if a device like the crucible can be built when all the races work together, what about just using those resources to build larger forces?  Especially with the Geth on your side. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You don't know what the scale is. Since you don't know the scale, comparitive evidence is to be relied upon. 

And that makes you wrong.

If I didn't know what scale is then I would be acting like you because scale is part of what ships are classified based on their size.

So what is the scale? Evidence please. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

So you acknowledge Sovereign acted alone. 

What's the problem then? 

Sovreign always had Harbinger.

Harbinger was in the darkspace, he did not help Sovereign.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

The Catalyst created them, you're told this by the Leviathans in their DLC. The Catalyst struck without warning and turned its creators into Harbinger. 

"It chose our kind as the first Harvest. From our essence, the first Reaper was created. You call it Harbinger."

The Leviathan says this.

Yet the Catalyst said they were willing to become the 1st Reaper

He says "they did not approve" when talking about making them Reapers. 

Leviathan says a lot about how they were slaughtered in a surprise attack. They don't want to be Reapers, that's why they hid from them all this time.

and they also did create the Catalyst.

I didn't deny that. 

Btw you should use all of the diaoge not just one selected sentence.

That quote is the most appropriate from what the Leviathan says. Nothing else contradicts it. If you have something that does from that sequence in the game then be my guest and post it here. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Oh look, more BP trolling.

The good old "I'm right and your wrong" bulletproof argument.

Ironically you're the "trolling" by insulting someone and trying railroad the topic.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

So what is the scale? Evidence please.

Look at the Kodiak and the Ship that Shepard landed on.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Harbinger was in the darkspace, he did not help Sovereign.

Yet Harbinger still controlled the Collectors from darkspace.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

He says "they did not approve" when talking about making them Reapers.

Leviathan says a lot about how they were slaughtered in a surprise attack. They don't want to be Reapers, that's why they hid from them all this time.

Some can still approve even when some disapprove and being turned into Reapers isn't the same as being slaughtered.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

That quote is the most appropriate from what the Leviathan says. Nothing else contradicts it. If you have something that does from that sequence in the game then be my guest and post it here.

There's more to it and you're not sharing it for a reason since the Levanthans created the Catalyst then became Harbinger and other Reapers.

[The Night Mammoth]

[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...

So what is the scale? Evidence please.[/quote]Look at the Kodiak and the Ship that Shepard landed on.[/quote]

The kodiak is small and the Reaper is big. 

It doesn't look out of the ordinary. 

That's why you need actual evidence. 


[quote][quote]The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Harbinger was in the darkspace, he did not help Sovereign.[/quote]Yet Harbinger still controlled the Collectors from darkspace.[/quote]

Yes, but Sovereign acted alone to open the Citadel Relay. 

[quote][quote]The Night Mammoth wrote... 

He says "they did not approve" when talking about making them Reapers.

Leviathan says a lot about how they were slaughtered in a surprise attack. They don't want to be Reapers, that's why they hid from them all this time.[/quote]Some can still approve even when some disapprove[/quote]

The Catalyst admits they did not approve. It's a blanket statement.  

[quote]and being turned into Reapers isn't the same as being slaughtered.[/quote]

You have to die. The Catalyst had to kill the Leviathans to make them into Reapers.

[quote][quote]The Night Mammoth wrote... 

That quote is the most appropriate from what the Leviathan says. Nothing else contradicts it. If you have something that does from that sequence in the game then be my guest and post it here.[/quote]There's more to it [/quote]

There isn't, but feel free to post some evidence of your own to refute my own.

[quote]and you're not sharing it for a reason[/quote]

I don't see anything else worth sharing that would change what I said, but I would appreciate if you shared something to actually argue the point. 

[quote]since the Levanthans created the Catalyst then became Harbinger and other Reapers.
[/quote]

Yes, but the Catalyst turned them into Reapers, by force. As Leviathan says. And as the Catalys alludes to by saying they did not approve. 

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ironically you're the "trolling" by insulting someone and trying railroad the topic.

You're wrong.

Hey this is easy!

[Pitznik]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet its not a Captial ship because the visuals says that its a lot smaller then a Capital ship.

Visual evidence trumph visual conjecture. 

Yet you're still wrong.

Saying "you're wrong" enough times trumps actual proof. Right?

If I was wrong then you wouldn't have flipped the table based on your anger.

Discussion with you is impossible, you ignore logical reasoning, obvious proof and you simply make things up on the spot to fit your arguement. Repeating "yet you're wrong" isn't discussion. And when called out on your fallacies, you accuse others of insulting you.

[Isichar]

Pitznik wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet its not a Captial ship because the visuals says that its a lot smaller then a Capital ship.

Visual evidence trumph visual conjecture. 

Yet you're still wrong.

Saying "you're wrong" enough times trumps actual proof. Right?

If I was wrong then you wouldn't have flipped the table based on your anger.

Discussion with you is impossible, you ignore logical reasoning, obvious proof and you simply make things up on the spot to fit your arguement. Repeating "yet you're wrong" isn't discussion. And when called out on your fallacies, you accuse others of insulting you.

What do you expect? He claims and argued most the complaints made on these forums contain death threats to the ME3 writers.

Tell me, has anyone else on these forums seen all these death threats other then him...?

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The kodiak is small and the Reaper is big. 

It doesn't look out of the ordinary. 

That's why you need actual evidence.

So you're telling us that scale isn't important because you think its a Capital ship just based on general size.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Yes, but Sovereign acted alone to open the Citadel Relay.

Yes as a Reaper, but he was still their with his subjects.  You missed the point that Harbinger thought this cycle wasn't a threat, which is why he didn't help Sovreign.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

The Catalyst admits they did not approve. It's a blanket statement.

How is that when Leviathan doesn't speak for all especially when it didn't come into contact with the Catalyst.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

You have to die. The Catalyst had to kill the Leviathans to make them into Reapers.

Death is slaughter.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

There isn't, but feel free to post some evidence of your own to refute my own.

The Leviathans only give the story that they know while the Catalyst gives a lot more of the story.

The Night Mammoth wrote...  

Yes, but the Catalyst turned them into Reapers, by force. As Leviathan says. And as the Catalys alludes to by saying they did not approve.

Yet you assume that some are forced then none were willing.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:06 .

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ironically you're the "trolling" by insulting someone and trying railroad the topic.

You're wrong.

Hey this is easy!

Yet you're not using the word "troll" correctly just like most people on the Internet.

Isichar wrote...

What do you expect? He claims and argued most the complaints made on these forums contain death threats to the ME3 writers. 

Tell me, has anyone else on these forums seen all these death threats other then him...?

I love it how you try to derail a thread and insult people yet you call me a "troll" when I'm not doing that.

Twitter is enough for that.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

Pitznik wrote...

Discussion with you is impossible, you ignore logical reasoning, obvious proof and you simply make things up on the spot to fit your arguement. Repeating "yet you're wrong" isn't discussion. And when called out on your fallacies, you accuse others of insulting you.

I'm always for a discussion but its not my fault that we aren't given all the answers and that you're contradict yourself.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're not using the word "troll" correctly just like most people on the Internet.

Yes I am. 

Gee arguing using your logic is pretty easy.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Discussion with you is impossible, you ignore logical reasoning, obvious proof and you simply make things up on the spot to fit your arguement. Repeating "yet you're wrong" isn't discussion. And when called out on your fallacies, you accuse others of insulting you.

I'm always for a discussion but its not my fault that we aren't given all the answers and that you're contradict yourself.

What you do is not discussion, its trolling.

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're not using the word "troll" correctly just like most people on the Internet.

Yes I am. 

Gee arguing using your logic is pretty easy.

Deny deny deny is easy for you since its all that you do when someone disagrees with you.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're not using the word "troll" correctly just like most people on the Internet.

Yes I am. 

Gee arguing using your logic is pretty easy.

Deny deny deny is easy for you since its all that you do when someone disagrees with you.

Glad you agree. So stop contradicting yourself.

Modifié par Isichar, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Blueprotoss]

 

Isichar wrote...

What you do is not discussion, its trolling.

How is that when you're trying to derail this thread and to insult people yet you call me a "troll" when I'm not doing that. 

Isichar wrote...

Glad you agree. So stop contradicting yourself.

The "I'm rubber you're glue" defence isn't working.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The "I'm rubber you're glue" defence isn't working.

Then why do you keep using it??

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The kodiak is small and the Reaper is big. 

It doesn't look out of the ordinary. 

That's why you need actual evidence.

So you're telling us that scale isn't important because you think its a Capital ship just based on general size.

The scale isn't important because you can't tell what the scale is. 

Reaper big. Kodiak small. Tell the the dimensions of a Capital Ship, Reaper destroyer, Kodiak, and the Leviathan Reaper, and then you can talk about scale. 

Since you don't have the fourth in that list, you can't use scale.

Since it looks exactly like a Capital ship should look like, it's then obviously that, and not a destroyer. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Yes, but Sovereign acted alone to open the Citadel Relay.

Yes as a Reaper, but he was still their with his subjects.  You missed the point that Harbinger thought this cycle wasn't a threat, which is why he didn't help Sovreign.

The Leviathan Reaper was there with its. 

Sovereign STILL acted alone for tens of thousands of years. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

The Catalyst admits they did not approve. It's a blanket statement.

How is that when Leviathan doesn't speak for all especially when it didn't come into contact with the Catalyst.

The Leviathan says what it's been told by those that came before it; that they were forced to become Reapers, that the Catalyst killed them without warning. The Catalyst coroborates this with its own statement. 

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

There isn't, but feel free to post some evidence of your own to refute my own.

The Leviathans only give the story that they know while the Catalyst gives a lot more of the story.

The Catalyst's version of the story does not contradict what the Leviathan's tell us. 

The Night Mammoth wrote...  

Yes, but the Catalyst turned them into Reapers, by force. As Leviathan says. And as the Catalys alludes to by saying they did not approve.

Yet you assume that some are forced then none were willing.

I don't assume anything. I believe what two seperate and opposing sources of infomation tell me. 

The Leviathans did not want to become Reapers and were slaughtered in a surprise attack and then made into them, The Catalyst admits this, the Leviathans say this. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[DrGunjah]

Blueprotoss wrote...
You seem to forget that the Normandy isn't that powerful of a ship and its insane to travel in the air when the Reapers rule the sky.
Staying behind isn't retreating and plus you're comparing an old man to a middle-aged man/woman.

okay, let me summarize this. We can not bring our invisible ship in because it's to dangerous, but we can run down a hill with zero cover in front of harbinger. Not even after killing the destroyer near the beam. Anderson seems to be the only one with the flash of genius to wait with his assault until harbinger flies away (why does he even fly away? wouldn't he make sure EVERYONE is dead before flying away? Did Anderson have a Reaper IFF for breakfast?)
Shepard survives harbingers beam because he is just awesome (not that awesome like anderson though, who just waited  ). Still sounds ridiculous to me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Here are my thoughts and I've stated them before and I'll state them again. Fight them if you want but they are cold hard facts.

1. The final screen shot at the end of ME2 shows the Reapers about 100,000 ly outside of the Milky Way. It's that panoramic shot. You see reapers clearly in the picture. You see the entire galaxy. That's the picture. That is 6 months before the events of Arrival. If Bioware didn't mean that, they need to be more careful with their artistic renditions.

2. Travelling at 30 ly/day which is in the Codex for reaper FTL means it would have taken them 9.1 years to reach the Alpha Relay, and that's for the Capital Ships because they don't have to discharge. But the codex doesn't say that the destroyers don't have to discharge. So one can assume the destroyers, being smaller need to discharge. This means that they have to drop out of FLT to do this, but where do they do this? If they discharge on the Capital Ships, the large reapers need to drop out of FTL which I'm guessing would extend the travel time another couple of years. So 11 years. This would have been from the end of ME2.

During this time the races should have been able to develop things like highly advanced hull armor, larger and longer range thanix weapons, better shielding, more maneuverable ships from the tech in the wreckage of Sovereign. 11 years is a lot of time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now what destroyed the series.

3. The "Ah yes, 'reapers'" retcon. Purpose: to leave Shepard feeling betrayed, isolated and wanting to work for Cerberus.

Collateral damage: She was still a Spectre damn it. This was an opportunity to infiltrate Cerberus that was blown by the Council going full retard. What the hell were Jacob, Miranda or other team members doing in the council meeting?

This was one of the most destructive retcons of the series. At the end of ME1 the Council, if you saved them which most people did, were on board with the reaper threat, including both Udina and Anderson. However somehow between the end of ME1 and ME2 every single scientist, engineer, technical expert, etc. and the Council itself went full retard and denied the reaper threat and couldn't tell the difference between the tech in Sovereign and that of the Geth debris field around the Citadel. And they sat on their thumbs for three years doing absolutely nothing. Three years? They may have been doing research. It can take three years to get prototypes out. Remember we're on a 9.1 - 11 yr time table for advanced production runs.

4. "There was no way to account for nearly half that thing." retcon. What? You mean half of Sovereign suddenly vanished? Okay, I know the Quarians are really good at taking Geth parts, and given the size of that part that Tali shows us in ME2 that's about half as big as Tali, and Shepard questions her "Is this one of the parts you got off Haestrom?" and she replies "These suits have more pockets than you think, Shepard." I think the Quarians could have stolen about 1/4 of Sovereign themselves given the likelihood that Tali wasn't the only Quarian on the Citadel at the time. lolz. Thus giving rise to Elephant Theory. But seriously, losing over 1 km of the ship? I seriously doubt it.

This is another full retard "we don't want the Council Races to gain any advantage" retcon. We thought it was just Anderson bull****ting us in ME2, but in ME3 when we went before the Earth Defense board we found out he wasn't. It was a retcon.

5. The reapers made it to the Alpha Relay in 3.5 years twitter retcon. This was the most destructive retcon of the series. Why? First it put the Quarian war simultaneous with the reaper arrival when if it were done according to codex times the war would have been finished 9 years earlier. The reapers developed Bioware Space Magic Drive over 90 ly/day with no need of refueling (not that fuel was ever a concern of theirs anyway).

6. Because the time was taken away, and because of the collateral damage from the retcons, there was no time to prepare, develop and test the ordinance needed, or develop and test advanced tactics, and thus the MacGuffin and Deus Ex Machina was needed for victory. Thus we got the s*** f*** of an ending we did.

---------------------------------------
There was talk about the inquest continuity and I'll mention something. Bioware typically handles this stuff very poorly. I'm glad they dropped it, because in reality it would have gone like this:

Shepard would have been on bail on own recognizance, possibly with James as a bodyguard (Cerberus assassins). There really wouldn't have been an inquest because during the discovery phase of the hearing all the docs requested by defense council were highly classified (Hackett), no responses from the Batarians, and the defense would have moved for dismissal on all charges with prejudice. Prosecution would have asked for continuance. It would have dragged out for 30 days, wash rinse repeat. Finally ending with a dismissal. No defense attorney worth their salt would have put Shepard on the stand especially with the case won. There would have been no "you can't handle the truth" moment. It would have been handled in chambers with a "good word" from Anderson, case dismissed, slap on the wrist for working with Cerberus. Very boring.

Anything other than this would have been unrealistic.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 13 septembre 2012 - 06:49 .

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The "I'm rubber you're glue" defence isn't working.

Then why do you keep using it??

Logic isn't your friend especially when you're using opinions not statements.

[Blueprotoss]

DrGunjah wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
You seem to forget that the Normandy isn't that powerful of a ship and its insane to travel in the air when the Reapers rule the sky.
Staying behind isn't retreating and plus you're comparing an old man to a middle-aged man/woman.

okay, let me summarize this. We can not bring our invisible ship in because it's to dangerous, but we can run down a hill with zero cover in front of harbinger. Not even after killing the destroyer near the beam. Anderson seems to be the only one with the flash of genius to wait with his assault until harbinger flies away (why does he even fly away? wouldn't he make sure EVERYONE is dead before flying away? Did Anderson have a Reaper IFF for breakfast?)
Shepard survives harbingers beam because he is just awesome (not that awesome like anderson though, who just waited  ). Still sounds ridiculous to me.

This is still semantics even when most leaders don't charge into battle and we still don't know if Shepard based out in the Citadel after using the beam.