289 réponses à ce sujet

[CuseGirl]

jsl1016 wrote...
This is for those that hated the ending, like me. If you liked the ending, I am NOT looking to start another thread to fight with you, so please look to other threads for entertainment.
Now, for those of you that hated the ending, would you have found it better if they had made Conventional Victory possible?
This may have been said before, but I for one think they should have just had LESS REAPERS. Yeah they (the Reapers) are powerful, and yeah if you didn't have enough allies you could lose or win with devastating effects. But they (Bioware) clearly showed throughout the series that reapers could be destroyed (Sovereign, Reaper on Rannoch, Reaper in London), but if you just had LESS OF THEM a conventional victory would have been very achieveable.
This way, starbrat could have been taken out of the equation and we could have had a bad ass boss battle at the end with Harbinger and TIM.

Would this have made you happy? It would have made me ecstatic to see all that firepower come to earth and devastate the Reapers while I took out TIM & Harbinger.

Just my thoughts.

I can handle using the Crucible as the "push button, kill Reaper" weapon, even if it is a bit anti-climactic. I just desperately wanted Starchild removed from the ending and wanted Priority: London to have some decision-making like in ME2. People enjoyed the decisions of ME2 so much (do I send Kasumi into the vents or Jacob? Miranda or Jack on the bubble? Who will hold the line?) I can't believe Bioware didn't include ANYTHING resembling it at the end of ME3. And this is with a monetized united fleet!!! Nonsense.....

[Aravius]

Loved ME3

Hated the ending and the EC.

[Shinobu]

I think a conventional victory that played out like the SM in ME2 with squads and fleets instead of individuals was exactly what I was hoping for. I want Shepard to be able to convince some of the Reapers to stand down or change sides (e.g. the Prothean Reaper if Javik is a squadmate), allowing for a conventional victory at great cost. Even if Shepard has to die in that ending it would be much more palatable to me than any of the current choices.

[thearbiter1337]

Meh, I didn't really hate the endings but i just hate Synthesis and the Catalyst

If i am able to beat the Reapers conventionally and tell the Catalyst to go to the timeout chair

I would be a happy man

[Neizd]

Don't "hate" the ending... Just dissapointed that bioware changed the rules and in the third and final game decided that we can't beat impossible odds and be heroes like in prevorious games.

[Steve The Seal]

Give me one ending (with variation) and a god damn fulfilling epilogue that showed major consequences... That's when I'll say that the me3 ending is satisfying, even if it's not conventional victory

[TransientNomad]

Even though I try to remain calm I just want to rant here for a second, and get off all the things that I disliked to hated about ME3 in no particular order...

1.) What happened to the trial of Shep? Why wasn't that it the game? That would have been a perfect segway between ME2 to ME3. What about those that didn't purchase Arrival you ask? Screw you! Bioware could just as easily canonized that mission like the canonized Udina as the councilor, hamfisted a excuse to bring back the Rachni, etc.

2.) Why isn't Anderson a councilor? I NEVER choose Udina and I can't imagine a lot of people doing that except on a lark. I know why, cuz they wanted him to star in the novels (for some reason) but way to choose one authors conveince over legeons of gamers you told had the choice!

3.) Speaking of the novels, wtf happened to Kai Lang!? He was somewhat interesting in his first novel but did they really need to turn the one asian guy in the game into a space-ninja complete with sword and "slanty" sunglasses?

4.) The Crucible. Really? Your really going to end the entire trilogy, including comic books, novels, 2 IOS games on a Deus Ex Machina? Yeah yeah, I know, its technially McGuffin... but ONLY if you judge ME3 on its merits alone. When you look at the big picture its hard to deny its a shallow plot device that amounts to a Deus Ex Machina. And it just happens to be on Mars this entire time and NO ONE noticed? And it can be built, in what... 2 weeks? And how did that data survive the past MILLION YEARS without the Reapers (supposedly the most thorough killer/con artists ever) finding and deleting it?

5.) How did the Reapers go from being independent true AIs ("We are each a Nation") to mindless tools that barely pass for VI's under the control of a singular identity whose logic is flawed beyond all reason. Save organics, by killing them, reducing them to paste, and making more mindless bots to do the same? Just so synthetics wouldn't kill them? That is crack head logic. And assuming that the program is malfuctioning, it almost makes it worse. You pull back the curtain, and the evil boss of everything turns out to be... Autistic. (I apologise to all autistics for the comparison.)

6.) Speaking of the ending, all the endings are a failure of some sort. Destroy is a philosophical loss for Shep and company as he becomes like his enemies and slaughter synthetics to achieve victory. And now with Leviathan you have that new threat that takes the Reapers place (from what I hear at least, I will not be purchasing it) Control is both a philosophical and physical loss to the reapers as Shep acknowledges that organics are hopeless without Reaper oversight and then allows himself to be fried, paving the way for a (hopefully, but not guarenteed) benevolent dictator to lord over the galaxy. Synthesis essentially does everything control does AND eliminates organic life as we know it. Synthesis essentially says the natural order of things is garbage and hopeless, and we should be made into the image of genocidal monsters that have a history of manipulation, murder, and narcissim.

7.) Ignoring the implications, still all the endings make no logical sense. Why would the Crucible target ALL synthetics? Whoever originally designed it would have to account for the hardware interfaces of machines built by ALIENS a MILLION years into the future. That's like asking a Amish farmer to design a device that can neutrailze a black hole. And what about system backups that are incapable of recieving outside signals? You know, secondary partitions with safe modes that can't be touched by any virus. And Control? How would imprinting the personality interface into a AI change its core programing? Why would a AI so sure of its mission, allowed itself to be corrupted by the very things that caused its "problem" in the first place? It's like if mid World War II, Adolf Hitler started to train to become a Rabbi. And Syn... Well, if you don't know the dozens of reasons Syn doesn't make sense I can't do anything for you.

8.) What the heck happened to Legeon's "finding our own way" then decides to use Reaper tech to "uplift" the Geth. How about this, you upload your own systems upgrade to all geth, giving them all the capabilities of yourself. Problem solved, with Geth tech only.

9.) Fetch quests. Why the ungodly amount of fetch quests? And not even good fetch quests. Mostly scan a planet, find NOTHING interesting except for a SINGLE STONE PLAQUE for some RANDOM guy you just HAPPENED to meet in the Citadel. Its beyond stupid.

10.) The Rachni. Already touched on this.

11.) "No final boss because boss fights are too video gamey even though we had three in the game." Kai leng x2 and the Reaper on Rannoch.

12.) So you can call the Normandy. From space. In the middle of a battle. That can fly to your position in seconds. To evacuate... 2 wounded people out of hundreds being wounded and killed. Leaving behind the complete stupidity of that alone. Why doesn't Shep... say I don't know... use the Normandy for FIRE SUPPORT!? Thats like calling in a Navy Harrier to transport 2 blocks away. On top of that, why doesn't Harby take a single freaking second to blast the stationary Normandy. The resulting explosion would be nuclear, wiping out any infantry and armour problems he was facing. (But oh yeah, spaceships going nuclear when the splode was retconned in the first scene. F***.) And you know what? NONE of the squadmates would follow that order. Garrus? Nope, the man took a rocket to the face and was still itching to fight. Javik? BWHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH Retreat? Really? Vega, Ashley, or Kaiden? He why don't you go find a marine that would abandon their CO mid fire fight when they were concious and mobile and get back to me. Liara and Tali? Both women are smart enough to know this is it, do or die, and would NEVER abandon Shep unless they were either unconcious or dead. It is this scene that I argue that the Extended Cut actually made the ending more stupid.

Phew... well I've had enough complaining for now. Just needed to get that off my chest.

[The_Other_M]

TransientNomad wrote...

Even though I try to remain calm I just want to rant here for a second, and get off all the things that I disliked to hated about ME3 in no particular order...

1.) What happened to the trial of Shep? Why wasn't that it the game? That would have been a perfect segway between ME2 to ME3. What about those that didn't purchase Arrival you ask? Screw you! Bioware could just as easily canonized that mission like the canonized Udina as the councilor, hamfisted a excuse to bring back the Rachni, etc.

2.) Why isn't Anderson a councilor? I NEVER choose Udina and I can't imagine a lot of people doing that except on a lark. I know why, cuz they wanted him to star in the novels (for some reason) but way to choose one authors conveince over legeons of gamers you told had the choice!

3.) Speaking of the novels, wtf happened to Kai Lang!? He was somewhat interesting in his first novel but did they really need to turn the one asian guy in the game into a space-ninja complete with sword and "slanty" sunglasses?

4.) The Crucible. Really? Your really going to end the entire trilogy, including comic books, novels, 2 IOS games on a Deus Ex Machina? Yeah yeah, I know, its technially McGuffin... but ONLY if you judge ME3 on its merits alone. When you look at the big picture its hard to deny its a shallow plot device that amounts to a Deus Ex Machina. And it just happens to be on Mars this entire time and NO ONE noticed? And it can be built, in what... 2 weeks? And how did that data survive the past MILLION YEARS without the Reapers (supposedly the most thorough killer/con artists ever) finding and deleting it?

5.) How did the Reapers go from being independent true AIs ("We are each a Nation") to mindless tools that barely pass for VI's under the control of a singular identity whose logic is flawed beyond all reason. Save organics, by killing them, reducing them to paste, and making more mindless bots to do the same? Just so synthetics wouldn't kill them? That is crack head logic. And assuming that the program is malfuctioning, it almost makes it worse. You pull back the curtain, and the evil boss of everything turns out to be... Autistic. (I apologise to all autistics for the comparison.)

6.) Speaking of the ending, all the endings are a failure of some sort. Destroy is a philosophical loss for Shep and company as he becomes like his enemies and slaughter synthetics to achieve victory. And now with Leviathan you have that new threat that takes the Reapers place (from what I hear at least, I will not be purchasing it) Control is both a philosophical and physical loss to the reapers as Shep acknowledges that organics are hopeless without Reaper oversight and then allows himself to be fried, paving the way for a (hopefully, but not guarenteed) benevolent dictator to lord over the galaxy. Synthesis essentially does everything control does AND eliminates organic life as we know it. Synthesis essentially says the natural order of things is garbage and hopeless, and we should be made into the image of genocidal monsters that have a history of manipulation, murder, and narcissim.

7.) Ignoring the implications, still all the endings make no logical sense. Why would the Crucible target ALL synthetics? Whoever originally designed it would have to account for the hardware interfaces of machines built by ALIENS a MILLION years into the future. That's like asking a Amish farmer to design a device that can neutrailze a black hole. And what about system backups that are incapable of recieving outside signals? You know, secondary partitions with safe modes that can't be touched by any virus. And Control? How would imprinting the personality interface into a AI change its core programing? Why would a AI so sure of its mission, allowed itself to be corrupted by the very things that caused its "problem" in the first place? It's like if mid World War II, Adolf Hitler started to train to become a Rabbi. And Syn... Well, if you don't know the dozens of reasons Syn doesn't make sense I can't do anything for you.

8.) What the heck happened to Legeon's "finding our own way" then decides to use Reaper tech to "uplift" the Geth. How about this, you upload your own systems upgrade to all geth, giving them all the capabilities of yourself. Problem solved, with Geth tech only.

9.) Fetch quests. Why the ungodly amount of fetch quests? And not even good fetch quests. Mostly scan a planet, find NOTHING interesting except for a SINGLE STONE PLAQUE for some RANDOM guy you just HAPPENED to meet in the Citadel. Its beyond stupid.

10.) The Rachni. Already touched on this.

11.) "No final boss because boss fights are too video gamey even though we had three in the game." Kai leng x2 and the Reaper on Rannoch.

12.) So you can call the Normandy. From space. In the middle of a battle. That can fly to your position in seconds. To evacuate... 2 wounded people out of hundreds being wounded and killed. Leaving behind the complete stupidity of that alone. Why doesn't Shep... say I don't know... use the Normandy for FIRE SUPPORT!? Thats like calling in a Navy Harrier to transport 2 blocks away. On top of that, why doesn't Harby take a single freaking second to blast the stationary Normandy. The resulting explosion would be nuclear, wiping out any infantry and armour problems he was facing. (But oh yeah, spaceships going nuclear when the splode was retconned in the first scene. F***.) And you know what? NONE of the squadmates would follow that order. Garrus? Nope, the man took a rocket to the face and was still itching to fight. Javik? BWHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH Retreat? Really? Vega, Ashley, or Kaiden? He why don't you go find a marine that would abandon their CO mid fire fight when they were concious and mobile and get back to me. Liara and Tali? Both women are smart enough to know this is it, do or die, and would NEVER abandon Shep unless they were either unconcious or dead. It is this scene that I argue that the Extended Cut actually made the ending more stupid.

Phew... well I've had enough complaining for now. Just needed to get that off my chest.

Yep, definitely saving this post,
This perfectly summarizes MOST if not all of the major issues with the game. 

[DrGunjah]

@transientnomad: very good points, especially #12
there comes this sidequest to my mind, jondum bau. He is a spectre and waits for you just outside the spectre hq but needs you to check the spectre terminal (?)
Then he wants you to check some consoles. why does he need shepard for that? then later in the hanar rooms he gets assaulted by one human that tries to strangle him and dies if you don't help him... uuhm...

[daecath]

They say right in the codex that a conventional victory is possible.

Here is exactly how you win a conventional war against the reapers.

According to the codex:
Thanix cannons are highly effective against reapers (about 4 can take down a reaper).
Thanix cannons can be attached to fighters on up
Ships in FTL cannot be hit by any weaponry.
Ships in FTL cannot be tracked.
Reapers cannot turn rapidly without dramatically decreasing their defenses.

1. Outfit every ship fighter sized and up with as many thanix cannons as they can support.
2. Outfit every ship that will support it with an FTL drive. It doesn't have to be powerful, or fast, or last long. Just enough to make short jumps.
3. Hit and run - Fighters with short range FTL drives and thanix cannons make rapid jumps into and out of FTL. Concentrate on breaking the reapers' formation.
4. Heavy hitters. Once formation is broken, the cruisers and dreadnaughts FTL in behind the Reapers and open fire.

Game, set, match. You'll probably take heavy losses in the first waves, but you're losing fighters, they're losing capital ships. Sacrifice the pawn to take the queen. By the time you send in your heavy hitters, you've worn down their forces to a more manageable level, and you still have tactics which give you an advantage over them.

All of this is easily found in the codex. They practically spell it out for you exactly how a conventional victory is possible.
http://masseffect.wi...Vulnerabilities
http://masseffect.wi...#Specifications
http://masseffect.wi...odynamic_Weapon
http://masseffect.wi...es#Space_Combat

[daecath]

TransientNomad wrote...

Even though I try to remain calm I just want to rant here for a second, and get off all the things that I disliked to hated about ME3 in no particular order...

1.) What happened to the trial of Shep? Why wasn't that it the game? That would have been a perfect segway between ME2 to ME3. What about those that didn't purchase Arrival you ask? Screw you! Bioware could just as easily canonized that mission like the canonized Udina as the councilor, hamfisted a excuse to bring back the Rachni, etc.

2.) Why isn't Anderson a councilor? I NEVER choose Udina and I can't imagine a lot of people doing that except on a lark. I know why, cuz they wanted him to star in the novels (for some reason) but way to choose one authors conveince over legeons of gamers you told had the choice!

3.) Speaking of the novels, wtf happened to Kai Lang!? He was somewhat interesting in his first novel but did they really need to turn the one asian guy in the game into a space-ninja complete with sword and "slanty" sunglasses?

4.) The Crucible. Really? Your really going to end the entire trilogy, including comic books, novels, 2 IOS games on a Deus Ex Machina? Yeah yeah, I know, its technially McGuffin... but ONLY if you judge ME3 on its merits alone. When you look at the big picture its hard to deny its a shallow plot device that amounts to a Deus Ex Machina. And it just happens to be on Mars this entire time and NO ONE noticed? And it can be built, in what... 2 weeks? And how did that data survive the past MILLION YEARS without the Reapers (supposedly the most thorough killer/con artists ever) finding and deleting it?

5.) How did the Reapers go from being independent true AIs ("We are each a Nation") to mindless tools that barely pass for VI's under the control of a singular identity whose logic is flawed beyond all reason. Save organics, by killing them, reducing them to paste, and making more mindless bots to do the same? Just so synthetics wouldn't kill them? That is crack head logic. And assuming that the program is malfuctioning, it almost makes it worse. You pull back the curtain, and the evil boss of everything turns out to be... Autistic. (I apologise to all autistics for the comparison.)

6.) Speaking of the ending, all the endings are a failure of some sort. Destroy is a philosophical loss for Shep and company as he becomes like his enemies and slaughter synthetics to achieve victory. And now with Leviathan you have that new threat that takes the Reapers place (from what I hear at least, I will not be purchasing it) Control is both a philosophical and physical loss to the reapers as Shep acknowledges that organics are hopeless without Reaper oversight and then allows himself to be fried, paving the way for a (hopefully, but not guarenteed) benevolent dictator to lord over the galaxy. Synthesis essentially does everything control does AND eliminates organic life as we know it. Synthesis essentially says the natural order of things is garbage and hopeless, and we should be made into the image of genocidal monsters that have a history of manipulation, murder, and narcissim.

7.) Ignoring the implications, still all the endings make no logical sense. Why would the Crucible target ALL synthetics? Whoever originally designed it would have to account for the hardware interfaces of machines built by ALIENS a MILLION years into the future. That's like asking a Amish farmer to design a device that can neutrailze a black hole. And what about system backups that are incapable of recieving outside signals? You know, secondary partitions with safe modes that can't be touched by any virus. And Control? How would imprinting the personality interface into a AI change its core programing? Why would a AI so sure of its mission, allowed itself to be corrupted by the very things that caused its "problem" in the first place? It's like if mid World War II, Adolf Hitler started to train to become a Rabbi. And Syn... Well, if you don't know the dozens of reasons Syn doesn't make sense I can't do anything for you.

8.) What the heck happened to Legeon's "finding our own way" then decides to use Reaper tech to "uplift" the Geth. How about this, you upload your own systems upgrade to all geth, giving them all the capabilities of yourself. Problem solved, with Geth tech only.

9.) Fetch quests. Why the ungodly amount of fetch quests? And not even good fetch quests. Mostly scan a planet, find NOTHING interesting except for a SINGLE STONE PLAQUE for some RANDOM guy you just HAPPENED to meet in the Citadel. Its beyond stupid.

10.) The Rachni. Already touched on this.

11.) "No final boss because boss fights are too video gamey even though we had three in the game." Kai leng x2 and the Reaper on Rannoch.

12.) So you can call the Normandy. From space. In the middle of a battle. That can fly to your position in seconds. To evacuate... 2 wounded people out of hundreds being wounded and killed. Leaving behind the complete stupidity of that alone. Why doesn't Shep... say I don't know... use the Normandy for FIRE SUPPORT!? Thats like calling in a Navy Harrier to transport 2 blocks away. On top of that, why doesn't Harby take a single freaking second to blast the stationary Normandy. The resulting explosion would be nuclear, wiping out any infantry and armour problems he was facing. (But oh yeah, spaceships going nuclear when the splode was retconned in the first scene. F***.) And you know what? NONE of the squadmates would follow that order. Garrus? Nope, the man took a rocket to the face and was still itching to fight. Javik? BWHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH Retreat? Really? Vega, Ashley, or Kaiden? He why don't you go find a marine that would abandon their CO mid fire fight when they were concious and mobile and get back to me. Liara and Tali? Both women are smart enough to know this is it, do or die, and would NEVER abandon Shep unless they were either unconcious or dead. It is this scene that I argue that the Extended Cut actually made the ending more stupid.

Phew... well I've had enough complaining for now. Just needed to get that off my chest.

13.) Anderson's death. This was clearly hacked in to give a touching goodbye moment. The problem is that the way you get there is stupid. Where did TIM get the ability to control both Anderson and Shepard? It wasn't from reaper tech. Remember Saren? The one and only person capable of activating the citadel and accomplishing Sovereign's mission? Remember how he was fully indoctrinated and completely implanted with Reaper control technology? Remember how Sovereign prevented the key component to his plan from committing suicide and forcing him to activate the citadel by taking over his physical movements? What? You don't remember that last one? Maybe it's because it didn't happen. Somehow, despite being the only person in the galaxy who could activate the citadel, despite being fully indoctrinated and heavily implanted with Reaper technology, Sovereign decides not to take control of Saren and allows him to commit suicide. It wasn't until Saren was dead that Sovereign took over, which caused radical physical transformation, and took such a great strain on Sovereign that when Saren's body was killed again, so was Sovereign. Yet somehow, TIM takes physical control of two people, neither of whom have any sort of control technology implanted in them, nor are they indoctrinated. And using his magical power, he forces you to murder your friend and mentor. Yeah, that's real f***ing touching. 

14) Tali's picture. A 2 year old could have done a better photoshop job. It's bad enough that it was a photoshopped stock image and not a rendered model, but it was so poorly done that whoever was involved with that should be deeply deeply ashamed. Like quit-your-job-and-become-an-accountant ashamed, because there was absolutely no artistic talent evident in that image whatsoever.

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Your own comments disprove that.

How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion.  Haters gonna hate and its sad that some people always have to try to antagonize people for no reason on the Internet.

Fixers0 wrote...

I never stated my opinion, stop telling lies.

Yet you keep on stating opinions even when you get angry at people that don't agree with you.  People won't always agree or disagree with you and thats a fact of life you should learn. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 septembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion..

Aha, that's a good one.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Then what is the scale? 

Pointless question, you don't know what it is. Therefore, scale is irrelevant.

Scale has always been important when talking about ships because scale can decide what class a ship is just by size alone.  Whether ships are floating in water on a planet or in space.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Irrelevant.

Sovereign did not recieve help from the Collectors.

Thats far from irrelevant especially when Harbinger tried to create a human Capital ship after Sovreign surprising demise.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Wrong. I'm using both sources to corroborate the series of events. 

I quoted the Catalyst multiple times, remember? 

Again you are contradicting yourself when you're focuing on the 2nd hand knowledge that those Leviathans are told.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Irrelevant.

They both say the same thing.

Again this is far from irrelevant since the Catayst has 1st hand knowledge while the Leviathan has 2nd hand knowledge

The Night Mammoth wrote...  

Because it matches what the Catalyst says. 

Therefore the fact that it's 2nd hand is irrelevant.

If the Leviathans matched what the Catalyst said then the Leviathans would be speaking from 1st hand knowledge instaed of 2nd hand knowledge.

The Night Mammoth wrote...   

Prove it.

I would be more inclined to beleive someone that has was at an event rather then someone that knows someone that went to an event.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

They tell us what happened. Only a f*cking idiot would argue against a pair of quotes. 

Oh........ wait........

The idiot would be you since you have alreay flipped the table and started to insut me for no reason pages ago.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion..

Aha, that's a good one.

How is that when I'm not the insulting others unlike most of the Internet like you.  Insults is't the currency for knowledge or maturity.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 septembre 2012 - 05:36 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion..

Aha, that's a good one.

How is that when I'm not the insulting others unlike most of the Internet like you.  Insults is't the currency for knowledge or maturity.

Don't care. You seem to confuse the words fact and opinion quite a lot. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Scale has always been important when talking about ships because scale can decide what class a ship is just by size alone.  Whether ships are floating in water on a planet or in space.

Meaningless words. Scale is irrelevant as it is not known at present. 

Thats far from irrelevant especially when Harbinger tried to create a human Capital ship after Sovreign surprising demise.

Irrelevant.

Sovereign did not recieve help from the Collectors. Whatever happens after its death matter not. 

Again you are contradicting yourself when you're focuing on the 2nd hand knowledge that those Leviathans are told.

I'm using both sources. Shouldn't have to repeat that so often. 

Again this is far from irrelevant since the Catayst has 1st hand knowledge while the Leviathan has 2nd hand knowledge

Irrelevant.

They both say the same thing. 

If the Leviathans matched what the Catalyst said then the Leviathans would be speaking from 1st hand knowledge instaed of 2nd hand knowledge.

So what you're saying is that you have to witness the incident first hand to have the correct facts. 

So, if I say the World Trade Center was attacked and destroyed on the 9th of September 2001, I would be wrong because I wasn't there. 

That's genius level logic. 

I would be more inclined to beleive someone that has was at an event rather then someone that knows someone that went to an event.

Irrelevant. Both sources say the same thing about what happened. 

The idiot would be you since you have alreay flipped the table and started to insut me for no reason pages ago.

Nah. The words you see on the screen in no way reflect my actual mood.

[The Spamming Troll]

i really wish bioware wasnt incompetent.

just rereading all the dumbs aspects of the game, its like WTF are you doing bioware.

get your **** together bioware.

seriously.

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion..

Aha, that's a good one.

How is that when I'm not the insulting others unlike most of the Internet like you.  Insults is't the currency for knowledge or maturity.

Don't care. You seem to confuse the words fact and opinion quite a lot.

If you really cared then you wouldn't contradict yourself since you're here to sya your opinion not the facts.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:00 .

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Meaningless words. Scale is irrelevant as it is not known at present.

How is scale meaningless when scale classifies what ships are.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Irrelevant.

Sovereign did not recieve help from the Collectors. Whatever happens after its death matter not.

How is that irrelevant when Harbinger tried to create a human Capital ship after Sovreign surprising demise.  Sovreign didn't recieve help since it was labeled as an easy mission until Saren screwed it up.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

I'm using both sources. Shouldn't have to repeat that so often.

Yet you're only focusing on the 2nd hand knowledge from the Leviathans.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Irrelevant.

They both say the same thing.

If thats the case then the Leviathans wouldn't be telling a difference on whether or not the Leviathans that were turned into Harbinger weren't willing.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

So what you're saying is that you have to witness the incident first hand to have the correct facts. 

So, if I say the World Trade Center was attacked and destroyed on the 9th of September 2001, I would be wrong because I wasn't there. 

That's genius level logic.

1st hand is always better then 2nd hand.  The World Trade Center is a different scenario especially when most of humanity wasn't killed during that event.  Insulting people is still useless.

The Night Mammoth wrote... 

Irrelevant. Both sources say the same thing about what happened.

How is that when 1st hand is always better then 2nd hand. 

The Night Mammoth wrote...  

Nah. The words you see on the screen in no way reflect my actual mood.

Yet it does especially when you were angry.

[Blueprotoss]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i really wish bioware wasnt incompetent.

just rereading all the dumbs aspects of the game, its like WTF are you doing bioware.

get your **** together bioware.

seriously.

Its ironic when some people will always do this with things like with Bioware video games.  Niipicks always appear and you can't prevent what people will like or hate.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when I mainly use facts and barely share my opinion..

Aha, that's a good one.

How is that when I'm not the insulting others unlike most of the Internet like you.  Insults is't the currency for knowledge or maturity.

Don't care. You seem to confuse the words fact and opinion quite a lot.

If you really cared then you wouldn't contradict yourself since you're here to sya your opinion not the facts.

Contradiction? 

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is scale meaningless when scale classifies what ships are.

It can, along with design. 

But you don't know the scale, like I've said maybe ten times now. 

How is that irrelevant when Harbinger tried to create a human Capital ship after Sovreign surprising demise.  Sovreign didn't recieve help since it was labeled as an easy mission until Saren screwed it up.

Because Sovereign is dead at that point. Harbinger can't aid Sovereign when it's dead. The point is that it acted alone. Whatever happens after you destroy it is irrelevant. 

Yet you're only focusing on the 2nd hand knowledge from the Leviathans.

You're just deliberately ignoring what I'm saying, aren't you?

I'm not focusing on what the Leviathans are saying, you are. I'm using both sources to discover the truth, which is that the Leviathans were slaughtered without warning and turned into Reapers without their consent. The Catalyst, which has first hand experience because it was there, says this when you question him about the matter. The Leviathans, a second hand source because they only know what their ancestors have told them, say the same thing. They do not tell you different renditions of what happens, so the two sources corroborate to produce a fact. 

If thats the case then the Leviathans wouldn't be telling a difference on whether or not the Leviathans that were turned into Harbinger weren't willing.

They aren't saying something different. 

1st hand is always better then 2nd hand.  The World Trade Center is a different scenario especially when most of humanity wasn't killed during that event.  Insulting people is still useless.

It only matters when their's descrepancy in what you're being told. Whether it's a primary or secondary source would only matter if the Leviathans were telling a different story to the Catalyst, but they aren't, so it doesn't matter. 

The actual specifics of the World Trade Center event don't matter in the analogy. It's just a comparison to show how flawed that line of reasoning is. 

How is that when 1st hand is always better then 2nd hand.

I don't understand the question. 

Yet it does especially when you were angry.

Nope. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[Blueprotoss]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Contradiction?

Too bad  Inigo Montoya doesn't share your opinion.

[The Night Mammoth]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Contradiction?

Too bad  Inigo Montoya doesn't share your opinion.

That you don't know what a contradiction is? 

Oh no I think he does.