24 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonp382]

 I'm a bit frustrated and don't understand how hostility really works I don't think. My human mage is wearing hostile reducing equipment, sten and alistair have threaten on 24/7 and heavy armor, and they use taunt. They're always in the ones in running in first(usually anywas). Still, enemies go almost completely after my mage. In the Brecilian I'd often have 1 or 2 on Sten/Alistair and then 6 on my PC. I think at one point I had 5 or 6 injuries on my mage because I simply could not keep them off my mage and ran out of injury kits. I never had this problem with my human warrior using Morrigan and/or Wynne as the mage(s). Also I installed the patches before I started my mage. Do the patches break hostility somehow?

Playing on normal btw.

Modifié par Jonp382, 26 décembre 2009 - 06:01 .

[amrose2]

It's definately an annoyance. Especially in the mage tower running into the Possessed Templars... agro them with your mage PC and you are instantly killed by 6 Holy Smites. Run in with Alistar however, and they just melee.



Threaten only makes their melee attacks more threatening, so it's not like a aura or anything that makes them more inherently better at agro. Supposedly wearing heavy armor is supposed to help.



My adivce is to just invest in Sleep / Mind Blast / Waking Nightmare to keep yourself up while the "tanks" struggle with agro.



If you play on PC, theres also some mods that alter AI behavior a bit to alleviate this problem

[Faerell Gustani]

What abilities is your mage using? Do you have the mage set up primarily as a damage dealer or a CC?

Did your build your mage differently than you built Wynne or Morrigan?

[Jonp382]

Wait, so what exactly does threaten do? Does it attract targets or merely keep them on the warrior? Should I even be using it?

Atm she has some of the hexes, 3 of the cold and fire magic each, heal, and walking bomb.

EDIT: The first 3 hexes. Misdirection, affliction, and vulnerability.

Modifié par Jonp382, 26 décembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[Jestert]

there's couple of way to deal with drawing too much aggro.



1. don't be the first one, the mob sees

2. don't open the fight with huge AoE like fireball.

3. place your tank between you and the mob, proximity have effect on aggro too

4. pull mobs with your tank, use a bow or something



or you can chuck the aggro management, just CC the mobs.

[Jonp382]

Jestert wrote...

1. don't be the first one, the mob sees
2. don't open the fight with huge AoE like fireball.
3. place your tank between you and the mob, proximity have effect on aggro too
4. pull mobs with your tank, use a bow or something

or you can chuck the aggro management, just CC the mobs.

I will calm down on the fireballs, but the rest I am doing (where possible).

What is CC? Cone of cold?

[Jestert]

CC stands for crowd control. It's talent that stuns, freezes, knockdown mobs for certain peroid of time. most of these talents don't last too long, but if you string them one after another, you can keep the mobs locked down(unable to attack or move) for a long time, at least long enough to kill em.



get the taunt skill for your tank, it's good talent to use to pull the mobs off your mage.

[Wompoo]

Threaten increases hostility the more they damage the enemy, therefore just having it on does squat to enemy npcs that have not taken direct damage from your melee team mates. I always lead as my mage therefore I always invest in CC and some of the best CC in the game was mentioned by amrose2 (Sleep / Mind Blast / Waking Nightmare and horror... horror is excellent as it will even take a boss out of the fight), they will make life so much easier as will the some of the glyphs.

[Meleth75]

Don't start the fights by going all-in with dmg spells with your mage and you'll be fine. Let the tank build up his aggro first. Use, as ppl suggest, cc spells in the beginning and use dmg spells to finnish off battles instead og starting them

[ZarahNeander]

Another good option is Mind Blast. Your best aggro-management asset. Sets hostility towards the caster to zero.



And of course, open the fight with a fireball. For what else did you take that spell?

[JaegerBane]

Meleth75 wrote...

Don't start the fights by going all-in with dmg spells with your mage and you'll be fine. Let the tank build up his aggro first. Use, as ppl suggest, cc spells in the beginning and use dmg spells to finnish off battles instead og starting them

Just an aside, I've found really laying on the damage and sending hostility through the roof works to my advantage, as it draws them all in and makes them meat for my CC spells. Stuff like Mind Blast, Grease, Cone of Cold and Sleep really does allow a mage to have a field day with those uglies. Even better if you have a rank in Poison making and some grenades, as you can hurl them to ease the pressure on your mana.

OP, if Hostility really is a problem for you, you may be interested in going for Blood Mage. Your enemies become playthings. Massive range damage-CC spells and ally converters.

[swk3000]

You may want to consider using your Tank until battle actually starts, then switching to your Mage. I've noticed that enemies tend to veer towards the character you're controlling, so if you're controlling your Tank, get right in the middle of them, pop a Taunt, then switch to your Mage. Once everyone's dead, switch back to your Tank to be ready for the next battle.

[shaktiboy]

If you like running with 3 mages plus a tank, you can outfit your tank in all + spell resistance gear to achieve 100% spell resistance on him. Now you can toss friendly fire AOE spells right on top of him and he won't blink. Get him to threaten and taunt all the enemies onto him and then light the cluster up with your big AOE.

Knight Commander breastplate = +40% spell resist
Spellward Amulet = +30% spell resist
Keys to the City ring = +4% spell resist
3 Dweomer Runes in a 3-slot longsword = +26% spell resist (Grandmaster + 2 Masters: +10%/+8%/+8%)

If you run with 2 mages, tank, and DPS warrior or DPS rogue, just send the tank and DPS in first and delay the damage output from your mages for a couple seconds. If you run tactics on both your mages to first apply weapon buffs, etc. when Combat mode starts, they won't usually attract instant aggro at the start of a fight even when autorunning on tactics, giving your meleers time to build up threat.

Modifié par shaktiboy, 26 décembre 2009 - 03:48 .

[XOGHunter246]

Try wearing some low hostility equips it should help a little but in genral it seem AI loves attacking mages more for some reason.

[Faerell Gustani]

People here have covered your main options (more CC, or ease up on the mage's starting offense), and the problem has been found (starting with fireball).



Warriors and Rogues lack the ability to easily damage large numbers of enemies at the same time, so if you start off with an AoE like Fireball, then you're likely to have all by 2 or 3 guys leak past your melee line to hit your mage.

In small fights of 2-3 opponents, it might not be a bad idea to open up with a fireball, provided your melee fighters are good enough to finish them off before they reach your mage.



The easier option of course, is to invest in more mass CC options like Sleep, Mind Blast and Cone of Cold.

Rogues and Warriors also have lesser single target CC options like Pommel strike, Shield Bash, and Dirty Fighting...Riposte, etc.

So if only 1 enemy is attacking your mage, use a few of these to distract them and buy some precious time for your mage's cooldowns to recharge.

[tevikolady]

Or, if your going to go all out, do so smartly. What I often do is layer earthquake/blizzard and tempest on an area, then open the door and get agrro, fireball em and pick them off, all before they even get in range of my party.



Do note, that these spells will do nothing if the enemies have not turned red. But once they do, the blizzard will freeze them/knock them down, the tempest will deal surprisingly large damage in *bursts* and the earthquake knocks them down unless they are not moving.



If you fireball them while in the midst of all this, they do not get saves to their knockdown checks against Earthquake/blizzard/tempest until they are on their feet again. Which can take soemtime if you've done your job correctly.



Also, if you have ALOT of mobs around you, don't be afraid to fireball you and your pary. If Wynne is away from teh group, she can party heal you and the otehrs and contine to pick off teh stragglers. Its an effective strategy, but if more than 3 survived the fireball, don't expect to get back up.



Its ok to be an all out nuker, just learn to use terrain and your other spells to your advantage. Archers really hurt, since they use scattering shot to stun you, leaving you simple prey to the melee dudes hell bent on killing you.



If you die alot, try using more strategy, or even a different spell rotation.



I find that going a straight up elementalist leaves you with very very few options in CC, but going down the spirit line is immensly fun. . .

[Cybercat999]

There are many nice advices here, but I would point one thing - I played 4 full games with mage PC, plus few more with mages in my party. My game was not patched until a day ago.

Today I am amazed to see that every damn mob makes a bee line at Morrigan no matter what I do with other characters. I respecced her into pure buffer/healer in this game, she is even off autoattack, and soon the fight starts she is dead, before she even does anything to pull aggro. I never noticed that kind of thing in any of my games, not even with very high dps mage.
So how that can be if there isnt something wrong with this patch?

Modifié par Cybercat999, 26 décembre 2009 - 10:51 .

[Gecon]

The problem with Taunt is that it doesnt scale whatsoever. Its AFAIK 300 aggro (400 with frightening presence) and thats it.



So yes, in the beginning of the game its an aggro magnet and your tanks have an easy time to keep the mobs with it interested 100% of time, esp if you also keep your distance and wait a bit before you do damage.



But later it gets weaker and weaker and you have to be more and more careful what you do.

[Faerell Gustani]

Cybercat999 wrote...

There are many nice advices here, but I would point one thing - I played 4 full games with mage PC, plus few more with mages in my party. My game was not patched until a day ago.

Today I am amazed to see that every damn mob makes a bee line at Morrigan no matter what I do with other characters. I respecced her into pure buffer/healer in this game, she is even off autoattack, and soon the fight starts she is dead, before she even does anything to pull aggro. I never noticed that kind of thing in any of my games, not even with very high dps mage.
So how that can be if there isnt something wrong with this patch?

You're probably going to have to provide video of what's going on.  Because that has not been my experience in the slightest.
Are you leading with Morrigan such that she is the first person seen?

[Spartansfan8888]

Well think about this... whos the first person you wanna kill in the enemy group? Theyre probably thinking the same thing

[thegreateski]

NPC: QUICKLY! Kill the guy wearing a dress! He is obviously the most dangerous!

PC: Nuts.

[VerMagnaDump]

You leading with your debuff hex? That's the first spell I used to have Morrigan cast on Elites or higher for tactics, and they were always on her like stink on stinky.



Try waiting a while before you debuff. Suddenly Alistair can hold a Revenant's attention with just taunt, at least for most of the fight. (This is on nightmare)

[hankmurphy]

attack with warriors first and then use taunt when the enemies start approaching. after your warrior uses taunt, then start using damage spells. that should occupy the enemies for a bit.

[catofnine]

Cybercat999 wrote...

There are many nice advices here, but I would point one thing - I played 4 full games with mage PC, plus few more with mages in my party. My game was not patched until a day ago.

Today I am amazed to see that every damn mob makes a bee line at Morrigan no matter what I do with other characters. I respecced her into pure buffer/healer in this game, she is even off autoattack, and soon the fight starts she is dead, before she even does anything to pull aggro. I never noticed that kind of thing in any of my games, not even with very high dps mage.
So how that can be if there isnt something wrong with this patch?

Just curious is this during the earlier levels in the game?  I noticed something similar in my new playthrough of the game (party is L7/8.)  I was in Circle Tower, and things just ignored Alistair and went straight for Wynne if he doesn't touch them.  He can start the fight by pulling--he's the first target the mobs see, they give chase, but as soon as they catch sight of my full party they break off him and go for Wynne or sometimes myself (rogue.) 

I'm guessing it's because he's not in massive armor yet i.e. no passive threat increase, things might be slighty different in nightmare mode or there's some subtle ai change in the patch 1.02.  I do remember aggro management being a bit wonky in the beginning of the game, but it wasn't like this in my previous run (unpatched, normal/hard mode.)

Just for clarification: Wynne is on passive.  I micromanage her every move.

Modifié par catofnine, 27 décembre 2009 - 01:56 .

[Joshd21]

They say the more armour you are wearing the more likely you will be attacked. I would make sure your tank has threat on, the stone prinssor can make an excellent tank. As for mages being attack, I find mind blast an excellent way to least stun them.

Then I use ice spells to freeze them in their tracks, and if there are several foes. I use Blizzard storm, works great knocking back all foes and freezes them. Though it doesn't work on everyone, it slows your movement down but your foes can't move at all. You can easily chip away at their health, also ensure you are a far distance away in battle