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[His Name was HYR!!]

-Skorpious- wrote...

If Wrex is in charge, betraying the Krogan is an absolutely stupid idea. Sure, the Dalatrass will get upset, but she isn't stupid - she might protest for a month at most, but she won't sit on her hands and purposely let the entire galaxy burn out of spite.

But the Krogans will. After all, why would they support a man/woman who betrayed their entire race to appease those who developed the mutation that basically destroyed their race? The truth would probably push most Krogan past the point of hoping for a future and into an unstoppable, perpetual blood-rage against Sur'Kesh and the Salarians; an event that would lead to the Salarians becoming even more reclusive.

Before Wrex confronts you on the Citadel, there was nothing to indicate that the krogan would ever figure out about the sabotage. It was supposed to be a trick.

Wrex may be smart, but I would not like his odds against manipulation put in place by the most advanced agents of one of the galaxy's most advanced races. That he even figures it out is a bit of a fluke - he had one more sympathetic contact in the STG than Wreav did.

[inversevideo]

Jinx1720 wrote...

I did it with my renegade Shep, but not exactly for support. Wrex is sensible, Eve is sensible, but the rest of the Krogans are bloodthirsty brutes which will most likely overrun the galaxy after the Reapers are beaten. Wrex may get assassinated, so does Eve and even if they aren't: a Krogan lives for around 350 years. Assuming that Wrex is not exactly young, that's probably another 100-200 years of peace if he stays leader. Thereafter the galaxy will regret having helped the Krogan.

However it was a very bitter playthrough: Wrex didn't trust me since I did not save Maelon's data, I had to kill Mordin and finally Wrex.

Wow. You have a quad! 

Your reasons, for betraying the Krogan, make a lot of sense.  I understand why you took that path.

I lack the conviction though.  When the time came, I could not do it.  I've more than once witheld the knowledge from 'Eve' and by extension Wrex, of the Dalatross' proposal, but when the time came, my Renegon Shepard could not betray the Krogan, or go full Renegade on Mordin.  

I could not condemn the Krogan for something that they have not done yet, based soley on what a past generation did. And I felt we were stronger with the Krogan in the war.  Either the Salarians would come around, or they would stand alone against the Reapers.

[RiouHotaru]

I never understand why anyone would -want- to betray Wrex. Wreav I could understand because based on Wreav's dialog, it's clear the Krogan are just going to go back to their old ways once the war is over, there's absolutely no guarantee they'd not try to expand and become war-like again.

But Wrex knows what he's doing, and Wreav gets eaten by Kalros anyway in the process. And really, the Dalatross just plain pissed me off. She can't seem to think beyond the fact that she just doesn't want the krogan to have ANY chance to pick themselves back up, despite the fact her race is responsible for the krogan being this way in the first place.

[Conniving_Eagle]

There's no reason not to cure the genophage if you're metagaming. It's invalidated by the endings.

[KENNY4753]

it doesn't matter in the end so why not cure them

[Yate]

It's the renegade path. Not nice, but it works out better.

I was glad they included this option, because it's EXACTLY what renegade should be: immoral methods giving moral results.

[lord of dahorde]

Never.

[ghost9191]

i don't think it is a betrayal , and if you go off the krogans past it is a obvious choice. even with wrex at the head he is only one man i guess, as eve said. i personally feel worse about shooting mordin then betraying wrex. at least wrex takes shots at you, whereas you shoot mordin in the back. that is of course if mordin survives

[SentinelShepParagon]

On the other hand of the discussion, what if Wrex and Bakara are able to get the Krogan under control and "tame" them, for lack of a better word. Then a fertile species of Krogan with unbelievable numbers could be a tremendous force for good in the galaxy...

[Yakko77]

Wrex is alive in ALL of my saves. I haven't betrayed him with either my engineer or my infiltrator and if I ever get around to playing SP again, I don't plan of betraying him with any of those, even my mostly renegade Shep. I simply love the character too much. Eve is amazing too and Mordin is just too cool... plus, that singing voice of his. I love his new song in ME3 The Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka missions are by far my favorites in the game. I'll spare you my usual rant about the Geth running to the Reapers or about the ending.

[TCGodzilla]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Jinx1720 wrote...

I did it with my renegade Shep, but not exactly for support. Wrex is sensible, Eve is sensible, but the rest of the Krogans are bloodthirsty brutes which will most likely overrun the galaxy after the Reapers are beaten. Wrex may get assassinated, so does Eve and even if they aren't: a Krogan lives for around 350 years. Assuming that Wrex is not exactly young, that's probably another 100-200 years of peace if he stays leader. Thereafter the galaxy will regret having helped the Krogan.

However it was a very bitter playthrough: Wrex didn't trust me since I did not save Maelon's data, I had to kill Mordin and finally Wrex.

krogan actually live for over 1000 years (remember Liara's dad on Illium with her comment that both parents were approaching 1000 when they killed each other, also the krogan poets girlfriend made a comment like "its not like a human where you can just wait for them to die":pinched:

Edit: to OP if wrex is dead then you are right, but if he is alive you get more war assets by curing the genophage, also he has quite a few years left on him and Eve is going to be quite helpful as well.

To add onto this Okeer was a veteran the Krogan Rebellions which puts him around 1400 years old and died from unnatural causes. Wreav said that he and Wrex were born one century apart. If you have Wreav as a War Asset it states "With centuries of life ahead, Wreav has bluntly stated his desire to see a new krogan empire expand after the Reapers are destroyed." So Wrex could be living for a good deal of time if he is not killed.

Modifié par TCGodzilla, 12 septembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[DDG4005]

TCGodzilla wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Jinx1720 wrote...

I did it with my renegade Shep, but not exactly for support. Wrex is sensible, Eve is sensible, but the rest of the Krogans are bloodthirsty brutes which will most likely overrun the galaxy after the Reapers are beaten. Wrex may get assassinated, so does Eve and even if they aren't: a Krogan lives for around 350 years. Assuming that Wrex is not exactly young, that's probably another 100-200 years of peace if he stays leader. Thereafter the galaxy will regret having helped the Krogan.

However it was a very bitter playthrough: Wrex didn't trust me since I did not save Maelon's data, I had to kill Mordin and finally Wrex.

krogan actually live for over 1000 years (remember Liara's dad on Illium with her comment that both parents were approaching 1000 when they killed each other, also the krogan poets girlfriend made a comment like "its not like a human where you can just wait for them to die":pinched:

Edit: to OP if wrex is dead then you are right, but if he is alive you get more war assets by curing the genophage, also he has quite a few years left on him and Eve is going to be quite helpful as well.

To add onto this Okeer was a veteran the Krogan Rebellions which puts him around 1400 years old and died from unnatural causes. Wreav said that he and Wrex were born one century apart. If you have Wreav as a War Asset it states "With centuries of life ahead, Wreav has bluntly stated his desire to see a new krogan empire expand after the Reapers are destroyed." So Wrex could be living for a good deal of time if he is not killed.

Actually Wreav said he and Wrex were born a decade apart.  This was mentioned in the second game when you travel to Tuchanka and speak with him regarding the rite of passage for Grunt.

[BJshepard]

If you kept Wrex alive, then saved the data in Mordin's loyalty mission, then Eve will survive and you need to cure the Genophage, those 2 = Krogan become smart and eventually stop the violent tendencies they had 2,000 years ago.

If Wrex is dead from the first game, then destroy the data in Mordin's loyalty mission, Eve will have died but Wreav will never suspect the cure was sabotaged but Wrex will. If Eve survives and Wreav is the leader then it seems it really doesn't matter but in terms of war assets you' re better off sabotaging it because Wreav is really stubborn and unfortuanetly if you have seen the epilogue there will be two armies of krogan ready to battle if you cure the genophage with Wreav as leader and Eve survives

[Killdren88]

Who are we all to decide the future of the Krogqn? They are sentient beings. We have no right what so ever to deny them existence.

[Jukaga]

Killdren88 wrote...

Who are we all to decide the future of the Krogqn? They are sentient beings. We have no right what so ever to deny them existence.

Who is? Even with the genophage, there are literally billions of Korgan on tuchanka, it says so right in the game. Add tens of millions in the diaspora and they are in no danger of extinction. By what right do the Krogan live for over a 1000 years and produce a 1000 offspring in a year? Even if only 10 out of those 1000 survive to adulthood the Krogan would fill up the galaxy.

What about the lack of ships some might ask?

What is stopping them from taking over the turian and quarian ships that are ferrying them around during the war?

Personally I can never betray Wrex/Bakara but Wreav can suck a lemon. I will get around to doing a Wrex betrayal someday but man that is going to hurt, Wrex is just too much win.

[frostajulie]

I feel that sabotaging the genophage cure is the paragon path but if wrex is alive I cant do it esp after Citidel DLC

Modifié par frostajulie, 01 mai 2013 - 09:07 .

[Wayning_Star]

never ever betray the Krogan. That's just plain wrong.

[dublin omega 223]

Wayning_Star wrote...

never ever betray the Krogan. That's just plain wrong.

Agreed.

[remydat]

Jukaga wrote...

Who is? Even with the genophage, there are literally billions of Korgan on tuchanka, it says so right in the game. Add tens of millions in the diaspora and they are in no danger of extinction. By what right do the Krogan live for over a 1000 years and produce a 1000 offspring in a year? Even if only 10 out of those 1000 survive to adulthood the Krogan would fill up the galaxy.

What about the lack of ships some might ask?

What is stopping them from taking over the turian and quarian ships that are ferrying them around during the war?

Personally I can never betray Wrex/Bakara but Wreav can suck a lemon. I will get around to doing a Wrex betrayal someday but man that is going to hurt, Wrex is just too much win.

So how come the Krogan didn't fill up the galaxy pre genophage.  I am pretty sure they lived for millions of years with this hyper birth rate?  Also, how come Earth is not overflowing when realistically over the course of her fertile life, a women could conceivable have 40 kids.  Oh that's right, women don't like to spend their entire adult lives with their legs spread waiting for a penis to be inserted.  They surprise surprise have better things to do.

So the fundamental problem here is life is not just a math problem.  Just because they can mathetically have a sh*t load of kids doesn't men they will or even want to.  Also, for all we know, the genophage results in only the most aggressive Krogans surviving which is why guys like Charr who just wants to write poetry and bang his Asari wife are in the minority.  I guess the opinion of females don't matter as Eve makes clear Wreav will have a civil war with the females if he tries and breeds children for war.  Eve also makes clear how the Genophage makes Krogans more aggressive.  How about we let women decide what to do with their bodies and let's see if they teach their kids to be more like Charr and less like Wreav.

[AlexMBrennan]

surely having the Krogan and the Salarian fleet available to defeat the Reapers is more important than the future of any one specieis

Firstly, there is no such thing as a krogan fleet - they are purely a bargaining chip to get the support of the turian fleet... and that's the crucial point: Betraying the krogan risks not getting turian support which you know you NEED for the Crucible in order to secure support from the salerians which Hacket may or may not be able to utilise at all.

[SinerAthin]

pirate1802 wrote...

No cost is too big to stop the reapers, that's what I believe in. So it is justified if you think that way. Almost anything is, in war times.

That said, my main Shepard decided to cure the Genophage because as Wiks says, we cannot condemn an entire species based on what "might" happen. So I cured it, just hoping Wrex and Eve will survive long enough to catalyze a mindset change in the Krogan. And I was happy as a kid to see Wreav being eaten by Maww. Bad people being taken by mother nature is a sure sign I'm on the right path.

But why cure the Krogan just now when most Krogans will be too stupid to realize they have been tricked?

The galaxy will be in complete chaos, the Council races and the power structure will for the most part have disintegrated.
Post Reaper war would probably have been the absolutely worst possible time to cure the krogan's genophage.

Why... why not wait 100-200 years so that the Council races could rebuild, and then help the Krogan? That way, if the Krogan didn't behave, we'd have the means to deal with them.


Curing them now is like placing all your money(the galaxy) in one pot and hoping for the high cards, to take a monumental leap of fate and HOPE that things work out.



Well... unless you absolutely intend to Roleplay your Shepard as Two-Face from Batman

Modifié par SinerAthin, 02 mai 2013 - 01:32 .

[Obadiah]

The Genophage is just ****ed up "solution" to begin with. Basically is forces to Krogan to behave a certain way (endlessly trying to procreate) to maintain their numbers, whereas beaten, at least they could have learned to adjust their behavior to survive peacefully in the wider galactic environment.

Oh, there will be just too much chaos after the war to trust the Krogan? Isn't that a license for every party to sabotage their enemies so they don't get "out of hand" in the chaos?

I'm just not interested in being a party to the genophage.

[Wayning_Star]

SinerAthin wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

No cost is too big to stop the reapers, that's what I believe in. So it is justified if you think that way. Almost anything is, in war times.

That said, my main Shepard decided to cure the Genophage because as Wiks says, we cannot condemn an entire species based on what "might" happen. So I cured it, just hoping Wrex and Eve will survive long enough to catalyze a mindset change in the Krogan. And I was happy as a kid to see Wreav being eaten by Maww. Bad people being taken by mother nature is a sure sign I'm on the right path.

But why cure the Krogan just now when most Krogans will be too stupid to realize they have been tricked?

The galaxy will be in complete chaos, the Council races and the power structure will for the most part have disintegrated.
Post Reaper war would probably have been the absolutely worst possible time to cure the krogan's genophage.

Why... why not wait 100-200 years so that the Council races could rebuild, and then help the Krogan? That way, if the Krogan didn't behave, we'd have the means to deal with them.


Curing them now is like placing all your money(the galaxy) in one pot and hoping for the high cards, to take a monumental leap of fate and HOPE that things work out.



Well... unless you absolutely intend to Roleplay your Shepard as Two-Face from Batman

I saved them and the Rachni, but this whole discussion is reflective of destroying the Geth and Edi because they're a 'possible' threat, or that's the choice of possibly destroying the reaperships and catalyst. It is chaos, the thing that started the reaper thing originally. We assume that the catalyst is some sort of super intelligent machine, but we really don't exactly know just how 'stupid' it might be, educated and lots of 'data' but wisdom is unknown. We do know that the rachni and the krogan are capable of wisdom, and learning from mistakes.

Saving them from Mordin's folly was a way to help Mordin as well, as his race, who eventually regret their hand in the genophage. Made sure that Grunt, Wrex and Eve all made it, so I could mostly depend on the Krogan to not be so..well. Krogan. Having the rachni queen helps make them look before they might jump as well. They, most likely won't make the same mistakes they did the last time, now that their 'songs' are in harmony.(and they sing to Shepard, all good.)

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I could never betray Wrexy, he's my Brogan.

Wreav can go step on a land mine though.