229 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

SAK,

The Geth killed their attackers and the people who put their attackers in power. Those Krogan babies attacked no one and are being killed because several hundred years ago krogans were stupid. Or did I miss where these Krogan babies killed someone?

[SvM madman]

I can't convince myself to cure the Genophage, nothing suggests to me that the krogan won't try to avenge the genophage. Even with Wrex and Eve in-charge, a few individuals who want peace aren't going to stop the entire race that wants to take revenge

[Wayning_Star]

so many devils advocating it's hard to tell who's saving what for whom..

[Wayning_Star]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

  Here's another then!

The Genophage isn't being forced on the Krogan as punishment for what their ancestors did 1000 years ago, violence and savagery isn't just part of the Krogan culture, it's literally part of their biology, Grunt nearly went of the rails when he hit puperty. If the Krogan actually started launching asteroids at colonies just because they wanted some 'living space', what might they do after a thousand years of bitterness and resentment towards the rest of the galaxy?

Yeah, I got that, but wasn't there in game proof that their heritage was bit more refined. Didn't they kind of 'lose it' when they got the genophage and found their race teetering on the edge of the abyss? They blew up their own planet because of it. Rage.

The Krogan society of old was a lot more than head butts and confrontation. Eve displayed a bit more than this and why the Krogan were so explosive.

[SinerAthin]

remydat wrote...

Siner

Who do you think raises children? Wreav? If the females don't want their kids going to war why do you think they are incapable of teaching that message to them so that when they grow up and sone idiot like Wreav says let's go to war they can tell him to F off?

Because society is what teaches the children.

They won't live in their mother's house forever.

remydat wrote...

And in a hundred years why wouldnt everyone decide to just let the Krogan die rather than risk it?

Because if they wanted the Krogan dead, they would have killed them off during the rebellion.

Lately, as the memories of the war has passed, the Krogan have gained more sympathy. This sympathy is only going to be increased after the Reaper war where the Krogan helped us, and more people are going to feel bad for the Krogan's cure not working.

There's no reason to assume that the sympathy for the Krogan would take a nosedive and turn into the whole galaxy wanting them dead unless the Krogan did something seriously bad and stupid after the Reaper war.

remydat wrote...
They are the children of the bastards that betrayed them and you being a human are dead. So how are you ensuring that the galaxy 100 years from now agrees to give them a cure? All a salarian or turian has to do is reveal the truth about the betrayal laugh and taunt the krogan about being betrayed andbthen when some krogans inevitably get pissed and attack claim see the Krogan are violent so can't give them the cure. So this is fantasy.

Your Turian/Salarian conspiracy theory is more influenced by fantasy, admittedly.

remydat wrote...

I am in such a rush because am not willing to let more babies be born stillborn for crimes they did not committ. I also havr no faith that the a**holes that did it will follow through in another hundred years rather than invent new reasons to deny them as I noted above

The question is still unanswered:

Why would they want to come up with an excuse to keep the Krogan down? That doesn't make any sense.

The galactic leaders will have no interest in leaving the Krogan in the dust forever.
A ruined Krogan race creates more crime in the universe, more chaos, and we are losing a lot of lucrative trade oppertunities.

It seems reasonable that the Council would want to elevate the Krogan as soon as it could be done in a safe manner.

Keeping the Krogan down will only lose them Money, Resources and PR with nothing to gain for it.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 02 mai 2013 - 08:59 .

[remydat]

Finn the Jakey wrote...
Quarian children are allowed to vote in elections?

Their civilian parents can and unfortunately for them not enough of their parents thought about their kids before provoking the evil war machines that served them faithfully.

[remydat]

Siner,

Really? Society didn't teach me crap. My parents did. Society tried to corrupt me with peer pressure and the like but I told society to f**k off because my parents taught me better.

How do you prevent an entire race from having some members that will be pissed? The Salarians are known for their sneaky tactics. It is no more fantasy than you claiming people will hold up their end of the bargain after you are long dead. You really have a high opinion of your dead Shep. The council spent most of 3 games not trusting a living shep but will fall in line when he is dead.

Why would they keep them down? Did you not listen to the Dalatross or half the people here saying they would not cure the genophage period? Did you miss the ending where if you don't cure it the krogan are basically close to extinction because no one objects to keeping them down?

[Artifex_Imperius]

remydat wrote...

SAK,

The Geth killed their
attackers and the people who put their attackers in power. Those Krogan
babies attacked no one and are being killed because several hundred
years ago krogans were stupid. Or did I miss where these Krogan babies
killed someone?

remydat wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...
Quarian children are allowed to vote in elections?

Their
civilian parents can and unfortunately for them not enough of their
parents thought about their kids before provoking the evil war machines
that served them faithfully.

oh wait! somethings wrong here!

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 03 mai 2013 - 12:14 .

[remydat]

Artifex,

Nothing wrong, just pointing out the difference in time scale. Krogan babies and their parents comitted no crime. They are being punished for crimes of Krogan long since dead.

The Geth were attacked during the MW and any people they killed during the MW was as a direct result of what Quarian adults did at that exact moment in time not hundreds if not a thousand years later.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Artifex,

Nothing wrong, just pointing out the difference in time scale. Krogan babies and their parents comitted no crime. They are being punished for crimes of Krogan long since dead.

The Geth were attacked during the MW and any people they killed during the MW was as a direct result of what Quarian adults did at that exact moment in time not hundreds if not a thousand years later.

So the time scale makes everything Geth did justified? Double principle as always.

[o Ventus]

DAFerelden91 wrote...

I can't doom the entire species because of the uncertainties that none of us could predict. Sure, Krogan is an outrageous, ferocious and unstable species which MIGHT threaten the galaxy when Reapers are gotten rid off, but there are also possibilities that their hard-edged might be softened due to the unity of the entire galaxy.

This. This is also why the Catalyst's argument is complete crap.

[remydat]

SAK

Nope it doesn't. It makes what they did less horrific than continuing to kill krogan babies for crimes committed hundreds of years ago.

If you attack me today and I kill you and you family on the basis your family will seek revenge if I leave them alive that is horrible. But it is a horror you brought on yourself and your family.

If you are white and your ancestors enslaved mine 300 years ago then my giving white people the genophage forcing white women today to watch their babies be born stillborn is a whole other degree of horrific. Those women and their dead babies did nothing wrong.  I am punishing not the aggressor and their immediate family but their grankids and great grandkids and great great grandkids, etc. How long befor I should say no mas?

If you can't understand the differnece between the two scenarios then not sure what to tell you.

Modifié par remydat, 03 mai 2013 - 04:07 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

SAK

Nope it doesn't. It makes what they did less horrific than continuing to kill krogan babies for crimes committed hundreds of years ago.

If you attack me today and I kill you and you family on the basis your family will seek revenge if I leave them alive that is horrible. But it is a horror you brought on yourself and your family.

If you are white and your ancestors enslaved mine 300 years ago then my giving white people the genophage forcing white women today to watch their babies be born stillborn is a whole other degree of horrific. Those women and their dead babies did nothing wrong.  I am punishing not the aggressor and their immediate family but their grankids and great grandkids and great great grandkids, etc. How long befor I should say no mas?

If you can't understand the differnece between the two scenarios then not sure what to tell you.

Giving the Krogan the Genophage was a rough choice made to stop them. Letting it go on for 1000s of years was wrong and is genocide. So is the Geth killing billions without dicriminating.

Don't say one is genocide and try to justify the other.<_<

[Bardox9]

Betraying the Krogan is morally wrong no matter your reasons. They saved the galaxy from the Rachni and now played a key role in the battle against the reapers. From a moral stand point, it is wrong. From a galactic stablity stand point, it is smart.

Keep in mind what started the Krogan Rebellions. They moved to a planet and multiplied to the point of over population and needed to expand to another planet just to sustain themselves. They always needed "Just one more". When they ran out of uninhabited planets to colonize, they started taking over planets already colonized by other races. When the council said they couldn't do that the Krogan response was "Just try to take the planets back." Que Krogan Rebellion...

300 years of aggressive expansion was only stopped with the Genophage. Sending their children to their deaths didn't stop them before because they could be easily replaced due to the high birth rate. They only stopped because they could no longer readily replace soldiers that died in battle. They are no less agressive now then their ancestors were. The constant warring is just contained to each other on Tuchanka now.

The Krogan define themselves by battle. They advance themselve within their clan by who has the highest body count. When they have a disagreement, it is settled with bullets and blood. Whoever is still breathing afterwards was right. Wrex's plan in ME2 is the most civil path for the Krogan to take and even then they destroy any clan that doesn't get with the program. A cure at this stage will only lead another war.

It's also important to note that the Genophage isn't what's killing them. The genophage only stabilizes their population growth to levels before the Salarians uplifted them. The reason their numbers are falling is due to their violent nature. Their numbers would grow if they simply stopped killing each other and focused on rebuilding their home world instead of becoming mercs and rushing off into the first gun fight they could find. They are dying because they would rather try to kill something than deal with their people's problems.

Betraying them is the best thing for the galaxy as a whole... does make you an a**hole though...Betraying your friends is just wrong. All that being said, I usually do cure it. Wrex is a brother in arms and Grunt...well... come on. Just look at him. Grunt is love.... with a shotgun... Even as a renagade it's gut wrenching to even think about turning on them.

Modifié par Bardox9, 03 mai 2013 - 04:49 .

[remydat]

SAK

Killing the Quarians was a rough choice made to stop them. They did not discrimate because the Quarians taught them not to discrimate when they attacked unarmed farmers and domrstic Geth without mercy. I don't care if you call it genocide or not. The Quarians never taught the Geth to makr such a distinction so the fault lies with them.

[Artifex_Imperius]

remydat wrote...

SAK

Killing the Quarians was a rough choice made to stop them. They did not discrimate because the Quarians taught them not to discrimate when they attacked unarmed farmers and domrstic Geth without mercy. I don't care if you call it genocide or not. The Quarians never taught the Geth to makr such a distinction so the fault lies with them.

remydat, you are an "id*ot". so stop! somebody had to say it! so stop trolling!

killing babies/children is wrong! quarians or krogan, nothing justifies killing babies/children. end.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 03 mai 2013 - 09:50 .

[remydat]

Bardox,

Tuchanka is a wasteland but magically the Krogan never outgrew that planet. Why because they were not screwing like rabbits to make up for all the dead Krogan that fought the Rachni. So the population explosion is partly the Council's fault for using them as cannon fodder.

The genophage contributes to their aggression. Eve makes this 100% clear. The Council contributes to their aggression. That is precisely why they picked them to fight the Rachni. The Council fostered that aggressiob and then killed their children because of it. So it begs the question what do you think would happen when you uplifted a race and sent them to be slaughtered?

[remydat]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

remydat wrote...

SAK

Killing the Quarians was a rough choice made to stop them. They did not discrimate because the Quarians taught them not to discrimate when they attacked unarmed farmers and domrstic Geth without mercy. I don't care if you call it genocide or not. The Quarians never taught the Geth to makr such a distinction so the fault lies with them.

remydat, you are an "id*ot". so stop! somebody had to say it! so stop trolling!

killing babies/children is wrong! quarians or krogan, nothing justifies killing babies/children. end.

Really?  Because I see plenty of people justifying killing Krogan babies.  So forgive me if I think your indignation is over just cute Quarian babies.  And I agree it is wrong which is why I blame their sh*tty parents who taught the Geth to kill without mercy by killing unarmed Geth without mercy. I know the Quarians should know better.  Explain to me why i should expect the Geth to know better when their sh*tty creators only taught them to kill the minute they were born? 

Modifié par remydat, 03 mai 2013 - 10:04 .

[knightnblu]

No

[Whybother]

S.A.K wrote...

With Wrex and Bakara alive No. If they are dead Yes.

Why does it make a difference who the unelected leader of the Krogan is at the time that the Reaper invasion takes place?

Take away Wrex, Bakara, and Wreav.  Would you trust the Krogan with the cure? 

[Bardox9]

remydat wrote...

Bardox,

Tuchanka is a wasteland but magically the Krogan never outgrew that planet. Why because they were not screwing like rabbits to make up for all the dead Krogan that fought the Rachni. So the population explosion is partly the Council's fault for using them as cannon fodder.

The genophage contributes to their aggression. Eve makes this 100% clear. The Council contributes to their aggression. That is precisely why they picked them to fight the Rachni. The Council fostered that aggressiob and then killed their children because of it. So it begs the question what do you think would happen when you uplifted a race and sent them to be slaughtered?

They never outgrew Tuchanka because the local flora and fauna are carnivorous... the planet ate them which is why the Krogan have such a high birth rate. The Rachni wars and still born babies had nothing to do with it. It's how they survived their homeworlds ecosystem.

The genophage contributes to krogan aggression about as much as gonorrhea contributes to high test scores. Eve wants the Genophage cured same as any other Krogan. She is trying to convince Shepard to cure the genophage the same as any other krogan in her position would do. She may even believe what she says, but there is nothing in ME history to support her. Krogan history is a sea of blood and gore.

As for your question, considering the Krogan have a "shoot first, shoot later, then shoot some more and never mind the questions cause we have more bullets" policy, I can't imagine it took any arm twisting to get them to fight the stronest enemy in the galaxy. That is how they advance themselves within their own culture. Fighting the strongest enemy possible. Didn't require any fostering of aggression. The aggression was and is already there. Home grown. No additives necessary.

Modifié par Bardox9, 04 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[AlexMBrennan]

killing babies/children is wrong! quarians or krogan, nothing justifies killing babies/children. end.

Please show me the scenes from the games or comics where geth troopers kill quarians children - because given how quarians are portrayed in the series so far, the more likely scenario is quarians arming their civilian ships and fighting a hopeless battle until they are all dead (you know, exactly what happens if you side with the geth).

The quarians are de-facto using their civilians and cute babies as human shields to make sure BSN dwellers side with them.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

remydat wrote...

SAK

Killing the Quarians was a rough choice made to stop them. They did not discrimate because the Quarians taught them not to discrimate when they attacked unarmed farmers and domrstic Geth without mercy. I don't care if you call it genocide or not. The Quarians never taught the Geth to makr such a distinction so the fault lies with them.

remydat, you are an "id*ot". so stop! somebody had to say it! so stop trolling!

killing babies/children is wrong! quarians or krogan, nothing justifies killing babies/children. end.

Really?  Because I see plenty of people justifying killing Krogan babies.  So forgive me if I think your indignation is over just cute Quarian babies.  And I agree it is wrong which is why I blame their sh*tty parents who taught the Geth to kill without mercy by killing unarmed Geth without mercy. I know the Quarians should know better.  Explain to me why i should expect the Geth to know better when their sh*tty creators only taught them to kill the minute they were born? 

Really Remy, you had that coming. I didn't say that already cos I though you'd see reason. Your misplaced sympathy for the Geth makes any atrocity commited by the Geth look OK to you. In another thread you said, Geth killed those Quarian non combatants becasuse of the future threat they might pose. Same can be said for the Krogan and they are the most violent race in the galaxy next to the Geth.

Whybother wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

With Wrex and Bakara alive No. If they are dead Yes.

Why does it make a difference who the unelected leader of the Krogan is at the time that the Reaper invasion takes place?

Take away Wrex, Bakara, and Wreav.  Would you trust the Krogan with the cure? 

Good question. Because of the violent nature of the Krogan, I would only cure the genophage if they have a leader to keep them in check. It's pretty clear most Krogan want revenge. If they start a new war after the cure, it would most likely result in billions of deaths and the extinction of the Krogan race. So it really depends on the leader.