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[Made Nightwing]

Ender Ghost wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I was abused as a child. Physically and emotionally. I suffer from clinical depression and OCD. The latter are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. By all accounts I should be gay by your standards Ender Ghost.

I'm not. My favorite character is Miranda and I'm one of her biggest advocates here. Ask anyone on this forum who Miranda's biggest fan is.

I'm also a big advocate for LGBT rights both here on the BSN and in the real world. Please educate yourself in these manners because you're coming off as incredibly ignorant.

-,- not sure if trolling or just not very good at reasoning....

Not everyone that went to Iraq got PTSD, not everyone who got cancer dies, see the theme here? You could be abused as a child and not be gay, we see this alot, you can have chemical imbalances and not be gay (Seriously thats pretty obvious, do I really need to explain about how there are different kinds of chemicals? Shocking I know), and really I couldn't care less if you were gay, I'm just pointing out that a lot of scientific studies point that homosexuality is 'natural' but not 'normal' or whatever you want to call it.

Don't even bother, mate. Indoctrination is alive and well in modern society, and these guys have copped a load in the face (no pun intended).

[ghost9191]

@Taboo-XX


GAY PENGUINS... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE

Modifié par ghost9191, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Ender Ghost]

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

[MACharlie1]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Because a yaoi fangirl started writing him, why else? Despite what IsaacShep likes to delude himself about, Kaidan was never meant to be available for both sides in ME1. Everyone was just reading off the exact same scripts. The reason the files were in the game code was because it would never have been worth removing them. However, the way the game was cut paints Kaidan as red-blooded woman chaser. Case in point, Kaidan acts nervous and stuttery around FemShep, but never around BroShep, and never shows the slightest bit of romantic interest in him, at all. He also flirts with Ash and with Liara. And, despite the numerous occasions of chiselled jaws and masculine features in the game, the only time he sneaks in a dirty comment is around female asari dancers. I don't know how many more hints you need before you understand that someone is so far off one end of the Kinsey scale as to be uncatchable, but I'd like to think that there's enough.

Unfortunately, just like cool, cat-loving, woman chasing Anders, a different writer came along whose personal tastes in pr0n should not be mentioned in polite company. As a consequence, my noble warrior/Forever Alone Shepard now has to romance Liara to actually get BroKaidan and not CreepyKaidan. BroKaidan is awesome and feels like a genuine bro, CreepyKaidan feels like a stalker who's upset that he's been turned down. Again, it just leaves me scratching my head, especially since Ash wasn't flipped around, so it wasn't like they were embarking on a tolerance crusade. Anyway, I'm out of here.

1.  Incorrect. He never flirts with them. He says LIara is attractive. Just because someone is attracted to men doesn't make them automatically attracted to all men. You do realize how absurd that sounds, right? 
2.  If we had sexy male dancers would this still be the case? Hm? Again, we're saying he's bisexual. NOT HOMOSEXUAL. I know you guys can't wrap your heads around the whole attracted to both concept but get used to it. 
3. I do love Anders in both games BUT I do agree he did change a bit but I hand wave it as a Justice thing.

[Taboo]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Taboo-XX


GAY PENGUINS... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE


(snip)

OMG GAY PENGUINS!

OMG HOMOSEXUALITY IN ANIMALS!

This is science.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:24 .

[MACharlie1]

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

[Ozida]

You know when I realised that they really screwed up with ME3?  When people started comparing the game to a lady with penis and talking about gay animals 

Modifié par Ozida, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[Ender Ghost]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I was abused as a child. Physically and emotionally. I suffer from clinical depression and OCD. The latter are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. By all accounts I should be gay by your standards Ender Ghost.

I'm not. My favorite character is Miranda and I'm one of her biggest advocates here. Ask anyone on this forum who Miranda's biggest fan is.

I'm also a big advocate for LGBT rights both here on the BSN and in the real world. Please educate yourself in these manners because you're coming off as incredibly ignorant.

-,- not sure if trolling or just not very good at reasoning....

Not everyone that went to Iraq got PTSD, not everyone who got cancer dies, see the theme here? You could be abused as a child and not be gay, we see this alot, you can have chemical imbalances and not be gay (Seriously thats pretty obvious, do I really need to explain about how there are different kinds of chemicals? Shocking I know), and really I couldn't care less if you were gay, I'm just pointing out that a lot of scientific studies point that homosexuality is 'natural' but not 'normal' or whatever you want to call it.

Don't even bother, mate. Indoctrination is alive and well in modern society, and these guys have copped a load in the face (no pun intended).

Indeed, but unless you're willing to accuse scientists of indoctrinating people then the whole argument falls apart, which would make it hard (Heh..) for the conversation to go on.

[Putok]

Ender Ghost wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I was abused as a child. Physically and emotionally. I suffer from clinical depression and OCD. The latter are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. By all accounts I should be gay by your standards Ender Ghost.

I'm not. My favorite character is Miranda and I'm one of her biggest advocates here. Ask anyone on this forum who Miranda's biggest fan is.

I'm also a big advocate for LGBT rights both here on the BSN and in the real world. Please educate yourself in these manners because you're coming off as incredibly ignorant.

-,- not sure if trolling or just not very good at reasoning....

Not everyone that went to Iraq got PTSD, not everyone who got cancer dies, see the theme here? You could be abused as a child and not be gay, we see this alot, you can have chemical imbalances and not be gay (Seriously thats pretty obvious, do I really need to explain about how there are different kinds of chemicals? Shocking I know), and really I couldn't care less if you were gay, I'm just pointing out that a lot of scientific studies point that homosexuality is 'natural' but not 'normal' or whatever you want to call it.

There are no studies I'm aware of that suggest homosexuality being the product of any sort of "chemical imabalance". As an aside, there isn't even any significant evidence to suggest depression is generally the results of a "chemical imbalance" either, that's more of a popular misconception brought about by an anti-depressant comercial. There is no mental illness that consistently presents with any chemical abnormalities measurable via serum or CSF, and though a few do show certain trends, these trends are hardly universal and typically do not involve the neurotransmiters that psychiatric drugs usually affect anyways.

There are also no studies to suggest that any sort of therapy attempting to exact a change in sexual preference has even a remote chance of success.

The best evidence seems to suggest that homosexuality is a combination of "conventional" genetics and epigentics, though the exact genes involved along with the nature and timing of epigenetic activation/deactivation are as of yet unknown. I personally hypothesize that the epigentic changes happen prior to birth, but it's also not my area of expertise.

[ghost9191]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Taboo-XX


GAY PENGUINS... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE


(snip)

OMG GAY PENGUINS!

OMG HOMOSEXUALITY IN ANIMALS!

This is science.

seems i just got learned

although that was mostly a joke, i now need to read that article

Modifié par ghost9191, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[shepskisaac]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Despite what IsaacShep likes to delude himself about, Kaidan was never meant to be available for both sides in ME1. Everyone was just reading off the exact same scripts. The reason the files were in the game code was because it would never have been worth removing them.

And Patrick Weekes said that when it happened (when they had the lines recorded), they discussed whether to have Kaidan & Ash available for s/s romance but because the dialouges didn't really fit (since obviously they have some gender-specific expressions) and they would have to do new animations, they scrapped it. Had there been more time however, the situation may have been different.

Made Nightwing wrote...

However, the way the game was cut paints Kaidan as red-blooded woman chaser. Case in point, Kaidan acts nervous and stuttery around FemShep, but never around BroShep, and never shows the slightest bit of romantic interest in him, at all.

But the interactions of mShpe and Kaidan and FemShep and Kaidan ain't the same. Kaidan doesn't touch the beam on Eden Prime - there's no conversation between him and mShep after in the med bay or outside the med bay. During the scene on the Citadel when Shep, Ash & Kaidan are watching the views, both mShep AND FemShep say the same line about 'beautiful women' to which Kaidan replies in FemShep's case because, gasp, FemShep is also a woman. The way the game is constructed makes mShep unable to even talk to Kaidan for the first time till half of the game.

Made Nightwing wrote...

He also flirts with Ash and with Liara.

He doesn't do any flirting with Ash. And Liara comments are just 'art appreciation', he says it to both mShep and FemShep and he also tells FemShep that she's not his type. Ooops.

Made Nightwing wrote...

And, despite the numerous occasions of chiselled jaws and masculine features in the game, the only time he sneaks in a dirty comment is around female asari dancers.

Where are the male strippers and all these occasions like Male Asari Patriarchs walking around in revealing tight leather suits in ME1 he could comment on?

Made Nightwing wrote...

BroKaidan is awesome and feels like a genuine bro, CreepyKaidan feels like a stalker who's upset that he's been turned down.

Except that he's very polite and immediately after he tells you how much he still values you as a friend. Ooops

[shepskisaac]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Don't even bother, mate. Indoctrination is alive and well in modern society, and these guys have copped a load in the face (no pun intended).

And there it is. Always comes out sooner or later, no matter how long they try to hide behind "Ohh I'm just concered about plot consistiency" excuse.

[Ender Ghost]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

So his loyalty is a sign he's gay? What does that mean about all the servicemen in the military who are loyal to their officers?

No where, but its just bad writing to not bring something up like that until the last game.

[Taboo]

All I remember Kaidan saying was that my Shepard was a great friend. In fact he's more pleasant than Ashley is.

My Shepard is with Miranda. Not once did I feel like Kaidan was being forceful. He isn't.

He's a friend.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[MACharlie1]

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

So his loyalty is a sign he's gay? What does that mean about all the servicemen in the military who are loyal to their officers?

No where, but its just bad writing to not bring something up like that until the last game.

And his appreciate of women is a sign that he's straight? See it works both ways. 

And again, you haven't said why bisexual men need to display their attraction. And have to show case who and what they want. 

[Revenant147]

PhoenixUK wrote...

dont you remember all the media uproar about the sex scene in ME1? is it surprising that they cut out any hint of bisexuality in kaidan? Im surprised they got away with it with Liara (although she's an alien and also it's woman with "woman" and lesbianism is somehow ok and gay is not).

Actually the way I see it, is that two hot lesbians are ok, 2 fat chicks that dress up as fat guys isn't.

[ghost9191]

Taboo-XX wrote...

All I remember Kaidan saying was that my Shepard was a great friend. In fact he's more pleasant than Ashley is.

My Shepard is with Miranda. Not once did I feel like Kaidan was being forceful. He isn't.

He's a friend.

 i remember him asking if my shep was flirting with him in the hospital, otherwise shepard had to make the first move i guess

[Ender Ghost]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

So his loyalty is a sign he's gay? What does that mean about all the servicemen in the military who are loyal to their officers?

No where, but its just bad writing to not bring something up like that until the last game.

And his appreciate of women is a sign that he's straight? See it works both ways. 

And again, you haven't said why bisexual men need to display their attraction. And have to show case who and what they want. 

Making a suggestive remark about asari dancers is a lot different then saying he missed Shepard (Didn't all old characters say that? Man the entire normandy crew is gay). And no they don't have to, but in story telling such as this its pretty inconsistant for a character to be straight, straight, gay!

[mauro2222]

Interesting, I don't know what's more funny... watching my country going back to chaos again, or reading another debate on sexuality.

Bleh... I think I'm going to join the riots and scream F*** YOU to our lovely President.

Modifié par mauro2222, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[MACharlie1]

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

So his loyalty is a sign he's gay? What does that mean about all the servicemen in the military who are loyal to their officers?

No where, but its just bad writing to not bring something up like that until the last game.

And his appreciate of women is a sign that he's straight? See it works both ways. 

And again, you haven't said why bisexual men need to display their attraction. And have to show case who and what they want. 

Making a suggestive remark about asari dancers is a lot different then saying he missed Shepard (Didn't all old characters say that? Man the entire normandy crew is gay). And no they don't have to, but in story telling such as this its pretty inconsistant for a character to be straight, straight, gay!

No male dancers - no opportunity for otherwise. 

Why is what someone likes such a story telling inconsistency? Can someone not like both? Kaidan likes Vancouver. He can't like Toronto? 

[Ender Ghost]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Ender, you do realize that people can grow up having perfectly great lives and be gay, bi, whatever, it's their choice, sure - certain factors can influence their decision on sexuality, but who cares, sexuality shouldn't define a person, IMO. Straight Kaidan is no different from Bi Kaidan.

Cool? Who didn't know this before now?

I'm just saying that when there are huge changes to characters they are usually hinted at before, or its a plot twist... and I don't think Kaidon being bisexual would be the best thing to be considered a 'plot twist'.

Arguably (as many have said before) bioware did a bad job with the writing with mass effect 3 with the crucible, sudden changes with the characters like Kaidon become bisexual and Ashley, well, turning white®.  

And if you're implying I didn't know gays could have normal lives (Which they don't since most people aren't gay they can't have normal lives unless the majority of people became gay, which would prove most of them were trying to make a scene) I'd just like to let you know that I'm fine with gays, I'm just pointing out some scientific findings.

It's not a plot twist. And isn't written as one. As it should be. 

And how was it sudden? If you remember ME2, he actually says to ManShep it was like losing a limb. And again, you will have to point out where in the rule book of the universe does every bisexual man need to make known that he is attracted to other men? 

So his loyalty is a sign he's gay? What does that mean about all the servicemen in the military who are loyal to their officers?

No where, but its just bad writing to not bring something up like that until the last game.

And his appreciate of women is a sign that he's straight? See it works both ways. 

And again, you haven't said why bisexual men need to display their attraction. And have to show case who and what they want. 

Making a suggestive remark about asari dancers is a lot different then saying he missed Shepard (Didn't all old characters say that? Man the entire normandy crew is gay). And no they don't have to, but in story telling such as this its pretty inconsistant for a character to be straight, straight, gay!

No male dancers - no opportunity for otherwise. 

Why is what someone likes such a story telling inconsistency? Can someone not like both? Kaidan likes Vancouver. He can't like Toronto? 

Now you're taking the 'You go where you dick points' too literally, cities =/= sexuality.

[ghost9191]

[spirosz]

Ender, please point out what is different between Straight Kaidan and Bi Kaidan, please - point out the different personality changes, his different viewpoints, his stance on Cerberus, everything, enlighten me.

[MKfighter89]

Their world was coming to a end and he just wanted to try new things, fear and death change people.

[Darth Death]

Why are people keep using "He was suppose to be bi in ME1" argument? That was just a concept among many. It's no different from concept art, which isn't set in stone. Anything can change at any given time. The focal point shouldn't reside in concept, but in actuality, & that realization is the mere fact Kaidan wasn't bi in ME1 or 2. It was an inconsistency that should have not happened.