338 réponses à ce sujet

[xGamerx599]

the ending the game deserves? i cant believe some people really fell for this pr stunt. i am only hoping that somebody develops a mod for a new ending. i really no longer care what eaware wants, if some other guy can write up something better and put a bunch of different outcomes like we deserved into the game, i will stick by them and screw these endings. even the ec ones.

[Iakus]

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

I understood the victory by EMS requests. The problem with that is that a large portion of the War Assets you gather go toward the building and research of the Crucible. When you factor that in, it feels pretty dumb (at least to me) to just ditch it and try another way.

I didn't consider that. I also thought that the endings were varied enough (Post-EC, not vanilla), and felt that a total victory ending would discourage people from choosing the other ones.

As I said in a previous post, I thought the two ideas synergized pretty well, considering all the things I've been shown and told throughout the game.

But they only synergized to a limited degree.  Players can refuse, but they can't resist.  Which was the whole point of refusing in the first place.  And total loss was put in without a balancing  win.  Thus the " You don't like our options?  Frak you!  Rocks fall!" mentality that Refuse now has.  Yes, it contains (some of) lthe letter of the request but lacks the spirit behind the requests (a way for Shepard to win on his/her own terms).

[Quintega]

Yate wrote...

THIS THREAD IS NOT TO **** ABOUT THE GAME. THERE ARE OTHER THREADS FOR THAT. THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH HATRED FLYING AROUND THE INTERNET AND I DON'T WANT ANY OF THAT HERE.

@ BioWare:

Look, you guys screwed up. Happens to the best of us. And it's OK. Extended Cut was awesome. There are always going to be people who don't like it, but at least now the series has a proper ending. Thank you.

The community gave you a lot of sh*t, some of it was deserved, but a lot wasn't. I think most of us realize that, and most of us don't hate you. Not really. We just want to see Shepard and friends get the best possible send-off. What we do, we do out of genuine love.

Of course, there are those who have sworn of BioWare games forever. I get that it's hard to see fans turn on you. But that doesn't excuse Refusal.

Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Refusal is not an ending. It's an insult. It's a big "F you" to the players. It was supposed to give the player a way out, a way to avoid stepping through plot hoops they didn't want. Except that choice had never been offered before. Shepard never refused to save the galaxy before. In fact, Refusal is one thing that ANY Shepard wouldn't logically do. Hackett and everyone is depending on the crucible being activated, Shepard wouldn't let him down, wouldn't give up everything fought for just to make a point.

Look, I get the decision to make it impossible to defeat the Reapers without the crucible. I agree with it, in fact. Anything else would've made the Reapers look too weak and/or stupid. But that's no reason to include Refusal. It's painfully obvious that everyone's hopes are on the crucible, and without it we lose. We get it. We don't need a fake ending to drive the point home.

There is no adequate story or gameplay reason to include Refusal. So what is it doing there?

Simple. It's BioWare telling their fans where to get off. It's not part of Shepard's story, or the Mass Effect universe. It's a direct message from BioWare corp. to you, the player. And the message is "F you. If you don't want our ending, you lose".

We get it. Some fans went too far. But that's not an excuse. This is beyond petty and immature. BioWare, this isn't the way to handle things. You don't wreck your magnum opus just to get back at people. The pressure for a different ending was done out of love for Mass Effect and the knowledge that you guys could have done a better job. Instead of just accepting you made a mistake and moving on, you chose to directly insult the people who love your creation.

If you don't want to change the endings, that's fine. But please, TALK TO US LIKE ADULTS. Explain why you made these endings, try and share the way you see it with us. I believe that you did your best to make a beautiful, meaningful ending for this series. We just want the same thing, and maybe if you'd open up this wall of hurtful silence you've been projecting ever since release the people here could see the endings the way you do.

Please, patch out Refusal. It spoils an otherwise beautiful piece of work. If you believe your endings are strong, then stick by your decision and don't insult us by giving a fake option.

Great another person thinking they should apologies for the community. Okay look you have the right to your oppinion. You do not have the right to apologies for people who wanted a decent ending to something and instead got hand waving. 

As to removing refusal. Bioware can tell me to go **** myself but please don't call it art. Bioware stuck their middle finger up and tried to justify it as art. Forgive me for being able to know the difference between art and scrap paper.

[ATLAS1192]

iakus wrote...

But they only synergized to a limited degree.  Players can refuse, but they can't resist.  Which was the whole point of refusing in the first place.  And total loss was put in without a balancing  win.  Thus the " You don't like our options?  Frak you!  Rocks fall!" mentality that Refuse now has.  Yes, it contains (some of) lthe letter of the request but lacks the spirit behind the requests (a way for Shepard to win on his/her own terms).

If I could resist in Refuse, I might have picked it.
The "balancing win" was the Crucible. You would win if you used it, the weapon a large portion of your War Assets went toward building.
I think that anyone who picked Refuse (and expected to win) wasn't paying enough attention throughout the game. Yeah, the rocks crushed you because you didn't move out of the goddamn way.
I certainly wished that I could win without a device like the Crucible. Ultimately, however, I couldn't.

Modifié par xBl4ck0p5x, 13 septembre 2012 - 01:44 .

[Quintega]

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

iakus wrote...

But they only synergized to a limited degree.  Players can refuse, but they can't resist.  Which was the whole point of refusing in the first place.  And total loss was put in without a balancing  win.  Thus the " You don't like our options?  Frak you!  Rocks fall!" mentality that Refuse now has.  Yes, it contains (some of) lthe letter of the request but lacks the spirit behind the requests (a way for Shepard to win on his/her own terms).

If I could resist in Refuse, I might have picked it.
The "balancing win" was the Crucible. You would win if you used it, the weapon a large portion of your War Assets went toward building.
I think that anyone who picked Refuse (and expected to win) wasn't paying enough attention throughout the game. Yeah, the rocks crushed you because you didn't move out of the goddamn way.
I certainly wished that I could win without a device like the Crucible. Ultimately, however, I couldn't.

This is where writing failed. Had we been playing shepard like in the other two game, we could have chosen to toss the dues ex machina aside. We should have been allowed to prioritize our assets, instead we are told how to use them. Hard desicions do not exist in this game. What exists are something that would be given to a tutorial level. Instead its the whole crucible concept.

[Reth Shepherd]

xGamerx599 wrote...

the ending the game deserves? i cant believe some people really fell for this pr stunt. i am only hoping that somebody develops a mod for a new ending. i really no longer care what eaware wants, if some other guy can write up something better and put a bunch of different outcomes like we deserved into the game, i will stick by them and screw these endings. even the ec ones.

There is an active modding project to do just that. Link is to Dark Delta 06's post, he's the one who gave me the links, so he deserves the credit. Also, it's not an ending mod, but  the Marauder Shields comics deserve mention whenever alternate endings come up!

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...]

To be accurate:

The purpose of a Refuse request was to have victory or defeeat determined purely by War Assets and readiness.  The stuff we spent the entire game gathering.  .

Yeah, this is better than my description of things. The people who actually requested Refuse wanted to win with it . People who wanted it to fail weren't as intent on having it added ; nice to have, but not important.

In retrospect, I regret taking the position I did. I think Refuse is great fun, but a fair number of people seem to have found it hurtful.

[AlanC9]

Quintega wrote...

This is where writing failed. Had we been playing shepard like in the other two game, we could have chosen to toss the dues ex machina aside. We should have been allowed to prioritize our assets, instead we are told how to use them.

That has little to do with "playing Shepard." Either building more ships will win, or it won't. Bio set it up so it won't. Playing Shep in the current universe means building the Crucible unless you're playing Shep as an idiot.

[Grubas]

Remove game content? silly. You could over something to replace it with.
Also many people actually choose refuse. You know they did it the Spartacus way.

[Reth Shepherd]

AlanC9 wrote...

Quintega wrote...

This is where writing failed. Had we been playing shepard like in the other two game, we could have chosen to toss the dues ex machina aside. We should have been allowed to prioritize our assets, instead we are told how to use them.

That has little to do with "playing Shepard." Either building more ships will win, or it won't. Bio set it up so it won't. Playing Shep in the current universe means building the Crucible unless you're playing Shep as an idiot.

Had Bioware wanted the Reapers to ONLY be defeatable by a Diablus Ex Machina, they should have established this in games 1 and 2. Instead they started the defeatist attitude in Me3 and then were surprised when no one else shared their vision.

[JBPBRC]

Yate wrote...

 Anything else would've made the Reapers look too weak and/or stupid.

Whut. They weren't already too stupid?

Modifié par JBPBRC, 13 septembre 2012 - 02:23 .

[mango smoothie]

People wanted an ending where the Reapers continue on with the cycle, and people also wanted the choice to refuse the Catalyst. Bioware killed 2 birds with one stone.

[ThaDPG]

mango smoothie wrote...

People wanted an ending where the Reapers continue on with the cycle, and people also wanted the choice to refuse the Catalyst. Bioware killed 2 birds with one stone.

Just not the way anyone expected or wanted

[Dessalines]

I don't like Refusal a different option. I don't believe a conventional victory is possible at all. The reason why I don't like Refusal is because someone stated that on Twitter that someone from Bioware stated that the next cycle used the Crucible to defeat the Reapers. Are you kidding me?
1)So you release an orginal ending that left the universe in a mess that pretty pointed to you probably destroyof the inhabitants in the Galaxy by blowing up every mass relay. Destruction of mass relay causing lot of damage was lore Bioware created not fan fiction.
2)People complained and pointed it out.
3)So basically Bioware turned into a spoil brat and stated "No, it was you who destroyed the galaxy, because you don't like our endings. "Are you kidding me?

[JBPBRC]

@OP

One does not simply get rid of ART.

[ATLAS1192]

JBPBRC wrote...

@OP

One does not simply get rid of ART.

Abandon thread! Meme incoming!

[JBPBRC]

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

@OP

One does not simply get rid of ART.

Abandon thread! Meme incoming!

Flee! Flee for the internet hills! FLEE DAMN YOU!

[ahnariprellik]

They added it in for a reason. Just like even after they said there would be no more DLC that alters the endings, yet lo and behold, Leviathan comes along and does just that. I would imagine that the refusal ending would start to seem more viable as more DLCs come out and we find more unconventional means to fight the Reapers that we could potentially use to win in the refusal ending.This is because it would add more dialogue options to the ending possibly allowing us to unlock a better ending using the refusal option.

[Dendio1]

Refusal is not an insult. Stop being so ridiculous. If they wanted to insult the players they would have settled on a Mission Failed cut.

Seriously....people...are you for real?

Modifié par Dendio1, 13 septembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[ThaDPG]

Dendio1 wrote...

Refusal is not an insult. Stop being so ridiculous. If they wanted to insult the players they would have settled on a Mission Failed cut.

Seriously....people...are you for real?

Oh, this is for real

[Fawx9]

Dendio1 wrote...

Refusal is not an insult. Stop being so ridiculous. If they wanted to insult the players they would have settled on a Mission Failed cut.

Seriously....people...are you for real?

So its better to just leave shepard standing there like an idiot?

The Grey, Halo: Reach and other storys have all done refusal type endings that end badly before. And you know what, even if you know they die, it works. Why? Because the one experiencing the story felt the catharises of the MC not giving up and going out fighting.

What did we get? Our character standing there looking like an idiot. BW did a half assed job on the Refusal ending no matter if you think we should have been able to win or not.

[CrutchCricket]

It's a middle finger alright but I don't support getting rid of it.

Middle finger or not, it's also an ingame representation of the player going "**** it I'm out."

Consider it a mutual flipping off.

[Omega Torsk]

People clamored for a refusal option during the "dark months" and now you want Bioware to take it back because it wasn't the refusal you wanted?

This is why we can't have nice things...

[The Spamming Troll]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

People demand Refusal ending.

Get it.

Call it an insult.

people asked for this?

who???

who asks for this?!?!?!?

[The Spamming Troll]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
this, although it needs to be able to result in victory.

Never.

lets play make beleive in the real world!

so lets say aliens started landing on earth, and laying waste to everything. at the very moment you see earth being pumeled by huge mechaships, what are you going to do?

when i think about it, someone who says "Never." is the least important person on earth.

Methinks Pitznik's saying never to Refuse leading to victory .

equally as foolish.