338 réponses à ce sujet

[ThaDPG]

Yup, we asked to be able to refuse, lose the war, and not even get to see us, our squad, and the rest of the galaxy go down fighting....yup, that's what I always wanted from the beginning

[SnakeSNMF]

Refusal fits the game perfectly; ti shows an unwinnable war being lost, with even though the ridicolous amount of high millitary strength, everyone rushes for it and dies and somehow the Reapers are unscathed when in reality, they can actually be destroyed and damaged, and have.

It makes sense because it shows that Shepard is not willing to sit down and take it up the arse, not listen to the bullcrap, even if it means the inevitable destruction of entire civillization as they knew it.
Yes, they had the option to do so, but we're not entirely sure whether or not we can trust the Catalyst either, honestly. We just know what Bioware has given us, and they sure do love people to be skeptics and overview things.

Refusal works. It'd be better if we were given an option of showing us being able to win in some way shape or form, even if it meant hiding out until the cycle was finished.

[spirosz]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

People demand Refusal ending.

Get it.

Call it an insult.

people asked for this?

who???

who asks for this?!?!?!?

Many threads a few months back, you're free to check, but the main problem is - people are complaining because it's not what they imagined.  I'm not defending Bioware because it is a middle finger, but at the same time, a lot of people asked for this type of scenario, regardless of what their headcannon is, it was most likely going to conflict with what Bioware's headcannon is, obviously. 

[Ownedbacon]

Greylycantrope wrote...
It fits both in my case, my Shepard's character in not your Shepard's character. Synthesis is the only thing that doesn't fit the universe.

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 13 septembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[Hydralysk]

ThaDPG wrote...

Yup, we asked to be able to refuse, lose the war, and not even get to see us, our squad, and the rest of the galaxy go down fighting....yup, that's what I always wanted from the beginning

Everyone knows a fade-to-black is exactly what the fans wanted when they said they wanted to tell the catalyst to shut up and start making sense.

[Iakus]

spirosz wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

People demand Refusal ending.

Get it.

Call it an insult.

people asked for this?

who???

who asks for this?!?!?!?

Many threads a few months back, you're free to check, but the main problem is - people are complaining because it's not what they imagined.  I'm not defending Bioware because it is a middle finger, but at the same time, a lot of people asked for this type of scenario, regardless of what their headcannon is, it was most likely going to conflict with what Bioware's headcannon is, obviously. 

Monkey's Paw wish

[AlanC9]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
People demand Refusal ending.

Get it.

Call it an insult.

people asked for this?

who???

who asks for this?!?!?!?

Umm... me, actually. When Refuse came up I was with the folks saying that it would be great for RP, but of course it would have to lead to total extermination. Guess we won that argument. Sorry about that.

[ThaDPG]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
People demand Refusal ending.

Get it.

Call it an insult.

people asked for this?

who???

who asks for this?!?!?!?

Umm... me, actually. When Refuse came up I was with the folks saying that it would be great for RP, but of course it would have to lead to total extermination. Guess we won that argument. Sorry about that.

You must have been in the vocal minority that Bioware actually listened to

[drayfish]

SnakeSNMF wrote...

Refusal fits the game perfectly; ti shows an unwinnable war being lost, with even though the ridicolous amount of high millitary strength, everyone rushes for it and dies and somehow the Reapers are unscathed when in reality, they can actually be destroyed and damaged, and have.

It makes sense because it shows that Shepard is not willing to sit down and take it up the arse, not listen to the bullcrap, even if it means the inevitable destruction of entire civillization as they knew it.
Yes, they had the option to do so, but we're not entirely sure whether or not we can trust the Catalyst either, honestly. We just know what Bioware has given us, and they sure do love people to be skeptics and overview things.

Refusal works. It'd be better if we were given an option of showing us being able to win in some way shape or form, even if it meant hiding out until the cycle was finished.

This is a great point about the Catalyst.  I've still not heard anyone reason why - without metagaming - anyone believes what this creature says.

Again: I know that everything turns out a disgusting shade of 'fine' ('yay, you won, don't bother thinking about what you had to do to get there!'), but I have never heard anyone explain why anything but Refuse makes sense in the context of that ending...

You meet the head of the Reapers (or if not the head, certainly the guy that claims to be Controlling them), he won't stop his rampage, he tells you a bunch of nonsense about a war that you know you've already stopped, and then he tells you to do one of three atrocious acts that he has been happy to use on innocent races for countless eons, an action that will remake the universe forever in a way he thinks is great...

Oh, and he will devastate you and everyone you love if you don't.

How can anything he says be trusted?  How can anyone agree to go along with it?

If it weren't for Bioware cramming those three options down out throat with no original right of reply I can't imagine many people picking anything but Refuse on their first playthrough.  It's utterly, embarassingly illogical.

If nothing else, Refuse is the only realistic option provided by Bioware at the end that doesn't tumble witlessly into fortunate happenstance.  That it also means we get to prove to the Reapers that civilisation won't become them in order to survive, seems a happy side effect.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

[Epique Phael767]

I saw the refusal option and thought "yes, bioware actually listened to us!" only to choose it and get copped out. basically the message was "Our 'art' > customers/fans" or "Our egos > our writing ability"

[ShepnTali]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

Really, reapers shouldn't have been unbeatable in the first place. That's just inviting plot troubles. Being extremely difficult to beat, and very bloody, with the illusion of impossible odds would have been fine.


And more interesting than an off switch.

[AlanC9]

ThaDPG wrote...
You must have been in the vocal minority that Bioware actually listened to

Actually, it's been.....  kinda eerie how many things I wanted have made their way into ME. I've been skeptical of or outright hostile to a lot of CRPG traditions, like loot & inventory, exploration, nonlinearity..... come to think of it, these are things that Terror_K tells me are defining characteristics of the genre. Plus I'm a big fan of giving the PC morally difficult choices.

[Conniving_Eagle]

ShepnTali wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

Really, reapers shouldn't have been unbeatable in the first place. That's just inviting plot troubles. Being extremely difficult to beat, and very bloody, with the illusion of impossible odds would have been fine.


And more interesting than an off switch.

They decided to make them undefeatable in the third game so they could roll with the Crucible asspull.

[AlanC9]

drayfish wrote...
This is a great point about the Catalyst.  I've still not heard anyone reason why - without metagaming - anyone believes what this creature says.

Belief is not required. If he isn't telling the truth, you're going to lose anyway.

[Epique Phael767]

ShepnTali wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

Really, reapers shouldn't have been unbeatable in the first place. That's just inviting plot troubles. Being extremely difficult to beat, and very bloody, with the illusion of impossible odds would have been fine.


And more interesting than an off switch.

Christopher Paolini made a similar mistake with the Inheritance book series. (Eragon)

[yukon fire]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

But Xbox doesn't make a game genie.

I just want to win the game get carried off the field and take the head cheerleader to the dance, how is that so hard Bioware?

[KiwiQuiche]

No. Refuse best fit with my character; eveyone has a different Shepard, despite the retarded autodialogue and emotionally shoe-horning of ME3.

She refused to bargin with the Reaper Lord. She died free and the galaxy defeated the Reapers on their own terms, not the Reapers.

So no, you can't claim Refuse is OOC for Shepard, because not all Shepards are yours. Get over yourself.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[Epique Phael767]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Unwinnable war... pfft. What's the fun in that? It's funny, if you think about it you need a cheatcode to beat the Reapers.

Really, reapers shouldn't have been unbeatable in the first place. That's just inviting plot troubles. Being extremely difficult to beat, and very bloody, with the illusion of impossible odds would have been fine.


And more interesting than an off switch.

They decided to make them undefeatable in the third game so they could roll with the Crucible asspull.

In Fallout:New Vegas, to get into vegas you could speak what appears to be random code to get the securitron to let you in. Maybe if we're a tech class and have enough para/rene points...

[Applepie_Svk]

 Just add my piece of cake...
Hudson´s quote from pre-release interview: There won´t be some kind of reaper killswitch - after release there is exactly reaper killswitch :wizard:what a magic:wizard:

[Epique Phael767]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

 Just add my piece of cake...
Hudson´s quote from pre-release interview: There won´t be some kind of reaper killswitch - after release there is exactly reaper killswitch :wizard:what a magic:wizard:

Someone needs to make a video of every promise they made and broke.

[KiwiQuiche]

Epique Phael767 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

 Just add my piece of cake...
Hudson´s quote from pre-release interview: There won´t be some kind of reaper killswitch - after release there is exactly reaper killswitch :wizard:what a magic:wizard:

Someone needs to make a video of every promise they made and broke.

Would use up too much broadband.

[yukon fire]

Epique Phael767 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

 Just add my piece of cake...
Hudson´s quote from pre-release interview: There won´t be some kind of reaper killswitch - after release there is exactly reaper killswitch :wizard:what a magic:wizard:

Someone needs to make a video of every promise they made and broke.

Not enough internet.

[Bill Casey]

Refuse is the second most popular choice on BSN...

social.bioware.com/876057/polls/36120/
social.bioware.com/1379294/polls/36038/

[Applepie_Svk]

yukon fire wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

 Just add my piece of cake...
Hudson´s quote from pre-release interview: There won´t be some kind of reaper killswitch - after release there is exactly reaper killswitch :wizard:what a magic:wizard:

Someone needs to make a video of every promise they made and broke.

Not enough internet.

Not enough space in the Milky Way...