338 réponses à ce sujet

[M Hedonist]

Baa Baa wrote...

When some of your players prefer the "you lose" ending over your primary endings I think there's a problem.

Fun fact: A poll StElmo once made resulted in people preferring an ending where you actually see all of your companions die over the three original ones.

[Taboo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, people aren't unhappy because it didn't offer" a clear paragod feel good ending" people are unhappy and angry because the endings don't make sense and completely undermines the entire trilogy, it's a horrible way to end it, to end it in a Deux Ex Machina. Also, Shepard hasn't been confirmed to be alive, Bioware has stated themselves they wanted to leave his fate ambiguously.

There is an article stating otherwise. You can Google search for it. This is a war story. You can't save everyone, sometimes you can't even save yourself. What people wanted was a clear conscience and to ride off into the sunset with their respective LI. Only one ending offers that possiblity and peopleare still doing it.

More like the consequences of a giant kill switch, and actually they function on both. That's why people pick different endings, I though that was common knowledge.

I've likened it more to a giant phallus that shoots one of three different colored beams when you stimulate the correct area.

Then why do you say Refuse is wrong?

Because it isn't a choice. The game doesn't register it as one. It's a gigantic "Gamer Over" screen.

[Ryzaki]

Sauruz wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

When some of your players prefer the "you lose" ending over your primary endings I think there's a problem.

Fun fact: A poll StElmo once made resulted in people preferring an ending where you actually see all of your companions die over the three original ones.

To be fair I think a fair amount of us thought they died offscreen (or inbreed and lived a horrible life on a isolated planet with no way to get back home) anyway. It was a case of a quick death now or a slow one later? I would've rather the Normandy blow up than get stranded on Eden Planet.

[Bill Casey]

Shepard: "No matter what kind of technology we might find, it’s not worth it."

Illusive Man: "Shepard, you died fighting for what you believed. I brought you back so you could keep fighting. Some would say what we did to you was going too far, but look what you’ve accomplished. I didn’t discard you because I know your value. Don’t be so quick to discard this facility. Think of the potential."

Shepard: "We’ll fight and win without it. I won’t let fear compromise who I am."

Shepard: "I'm going to win this war, and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species."

Shepard: "It's not just about living 'till tomorrow. Sometimes you take a stand."

EDI: "But the probability of success was near zero. And ultimately, they failed. No prisoners escaped."

Shepard: "Are you saying submission is preferable to extinction?"

Samara: "Only your actions will be remembered. May you choose them well."

Illusive Man: "That idea is not so easily destroyed."

Eve: "I found this. A simple
crystal, but it became my chisel. Take it as a reminder, Commander. In
the darkest hour, there’s always a way out."

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Taboo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

What are you trying to say? That I should ignore everything the catalyst is saying?

He states no less than three fallacies.

Appeal to Probability
Appeal to Authority 
Appealt to Emotion

He's a fallacious piece of ****.

He doesn't lie, he simply states what he thinks and he believes he's correct.

My Shepard is shooting the pipe and is going back to Miranda. He has one hundred years to think about what he's done. And if the Geth are dead it's a straight shot to the finish with the exception of EDI.

[drayfish]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The endings function on logic, not emotion.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Let me Rephrase...

You have to think about the choice.

Not the Starchild's fallacious bull****. That is not logic.

I know what you're saying, Taboo, but it's not a real choice.  In no real conflict scenario is this applicable; in no philosophical way is it revealling. 

It's not like weighing the threat of the future Krogans against their sterilisation, or finding a way through the conflict of the Geth/Quarians.  It literally boils down to: which atrocity are you most comfortable with in order to keep surviving?  I'm not sure what answering that question reveals about we the players, humanity at large, or Bioware as artists for having forced the answer.

It just seems like a lazy and incompetent attempt to manufacture gravitas with no understanding of how moral complexity actually functions.

[M Hedonist]

And here it is:
poll
A freaking 64%.

[Pitznik]

drayfish wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The endings function on logic, not emotion.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Let me Rephrase...

You have to think about the choice.

Not the Starchild's fallacious bull****. That is not logic.

I know what you're saying, Taboo, but it's not a real choice.  In no real conflict scenario is this applicable; in no philosophical way is it revealling. 

It's not like weighing the threat of the future Krogans against their sterilisation, or finding a way through the conflict of the Geth/Quarians.  It literally boils down to: which atrocity are you most comfortable with in order to keep surviving?  I'm not sure what answering that question reveals about we the players, humanity at large, or Bioware as artists for having forced the answer.

It just seems like a lazy and incompetent attempt to manufacture gravitas with no understanding of how moral complexity actually functions.

Still believing in wars without atrocities, drayfish?

[Mcfly616]

Bill Casey wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The endings function on logic, not emotion.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

because you can't logically save everyone....

jokes on you bro BAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HA

[Ryzaki]

...the original ending had me thinking everyone died anyway because all the relays exploded.

[Taboo]

The Geth don't have to be alive. In one scenario it flat out looks like you're being betrayed by the VI. Shooting him in the face is a GOOD thing.

Even Tali states as much.

[Bill Casey]

Miranda: "I don't know. After seeing it firsthand, using anything from this base seems like a betrayal"

*Everyone Shoves Collector Base Remains into Crucible*

What now, Taboo?

[Ryzaki]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Geth don't have to be alive. In one scenario it flat out looks like you're being betrayed by the VI. Shooting him in the face is a GOOD thing.

Even Tali states as much.

You're assuming I give a damn what Tali thinks.

Plus who is this VI? Only Legion's alive in my game. Legion and boring ass Raan. Tali got dragged away by seeker swarms. :innocent:

[Baa Baa]

Ryzaki wrote...

...the original ending had me thinking everyone died anyway because all the relays exploded.

This is true.
When I saw that poll I voted that I'd prefer a logical "everyone fights to the death" ending because I thought everyone died anyway.

[Bill Casey]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Geth don't have to be alive. In one scenario it flat out looks like you're being betrayed by the VI. Shooting him in the face is a GOOD thing.

Even Tali states as much.

I'm not going to make the Reapers seem right...
And I'm not going to metagame the Geth into villains...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:54 .

[RiouHotaru]

Ryzaki wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

The thing is they weren't told WHY the Crucible didn't work. And since the next cycle has ALL the time they need to prepare, they could easily find out that the reason it didn't work was because someone didn't take action to make it work.

That they used the Crucible when you refused to doesn't make it bad writing.

You know what they do know works again the Reapers? Guns. Ships. Weapons.

Why on EARTH would any SANE THINKING species with a blatant headstart (remember the Asari found their Prothean beacon AGES ago. Those idiots just hogged it and the Protheans warnings weren't understandable) decided to use the MacGuffin that others said "welp we built it but it didn't work" rather than you know...those things that DID work but the people that died just didn't have enough of? 

That's terrible writing. It makes the next cycle almost as dumb as Shepard's cycle.

No, it makes them smart because they actually used the object that would defeat the Reapers, and did so BEFORE any significant losses were inflicted (as per the female stargazer's dialogue).  Which makes Shepard the idiot for not using it.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote....

.There is an article stating otherwise. You can Google search for it. This is a war story. You can't save everyone, sometimes you can't even save yourself. What people wanted was a clear conscience and to ride off into the sunset with their respective LI. Only one ending offers that possiblity and peopleare still doing it.

So you're just going to assumed based on one article that, that is the reason why most people genuinely upset with the endings? It's obvious that there are people that want happy LI endin, but that's definetely not what the majority want or would want to like in realistic term. A happy LI ins't the reason for the backlash we had for the endings, I though that was obvious.

Because it isn't a choice. The game doesn't register it as one. It's a gigantic "Gamer Over" screen.

Actually the reason it's not registered is because the achievement is "Mission Accomplished" The mission is not accomplished, hence why it doesn't count. It's still a choice regardless, how can you refute that? You just keep on contradicting yourself.

[M Hedonist]

Is anyone else slightly baffled at Taboo right now?

[Taboo]

Bill Casey wrote...

Miranda: "I don't know. After seeing it firsthand, using anything from this base seems like a betrayal"

*Everyone Shoves Collector Base Remains into Crucible*

What now, Taboo?

Exactly. She has an emotional reaction to the scene and supports Shepard regardless. Why? Because she, like everyone else leaves it up to him.

And she quits Cerberus either way because she trusts Shepard more than TIM.

She trusts him to finish it and she states this in the Goodbye. As does everyone else. Everyone. Sometimes things don't work out the way you want.

Miranda of all people would understand that choice.

[Bill Casey]

The dialogue in the game suggests they didn't use the Crucible...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[RiouHotaru]

Dialogue in the game doesn't state one way or the other.

[Bill Casey]

"We built the Crucible but it didn't work"
"They fought a terrible war so we didn't have to"

[Taboo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote....

.There is an article stating otherwise. You can Google search for it. This is a war story. You can't save everyone, sometimes you can't even save yourself. What people wanted was a clear conscience and to ride off into the sunset with their respective LI. Only one ending offers that possiblity and peopleare still doing it.

So you're just going to assumed based on one article that, that is the reason why most people genuinely upset with the endings? It's obvious that there are people that want happy LI endin, but that's definetely not what the majority want or would want to like in realistic term. A happy LI ins't the reason for the backlash we had for the endings, I though that was obvious.

Because it isn't a choice. The game doesn't register it as one. It's a gigantic "Gamer Over" screen.

Actually the reason it's not registered is because the achievement is "Mission Accomplished" The mission is not accomplished, hence why it doesn't count. It's still a choice regardless, how can you refute that? You just keep on contradicting yourself.

It's all a choice. But your job was to stop the Reapers.

I'm not concerned with Happy Endings with the LI because that's all there for you. I can have that if I wish. I just have to head canon one. Bioware has stated as much. I was told this by BIlly Buskell a producer.

War isn't fun. That's the point.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

What are you trying to say? That I should ignore everything the catalyst is saying?

He states no less than three fallacies.

Appeal to Probability
Appeal to Authority 
Appealt to Emotion

He's a fallacious piece of ****.

He doesn't lie, he simply states what he thinks and he believes he's correct.

My Shepard is shooting the pipe and is going back to Miranda. He has one hundred years to think about what he's done. And if the Geth are dead it's a straight shot to the finish with the exception of EDI.

And I know that, what's the point you're trying to make is what I'm asking?

[drayfish]

Pitznik wrote...

Still believing in wars without atrocities, drayfish?

Still believing you can preserve humanity by betraying everything it stands for, Pitznik?