193 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

What makes the DA world so interesting and compelling is that it isn't just a story about dragons and magic, it's about the condition of the human(elf/dwarf/kossith) heart - and all the beautiful and ugly things that go along with that.

So to that end, I think something would be seriously missing from the game if romances were not included.

BUT, I'd rather never have DAII-style romances again. Over a span of ten years we will flirt three times, have sex once, and MAYBE kiss before the most dangerous fight of our lives? No. Just no.

I really enjoyed developing a friendship with my LI before they became someone I was romantically involved with in DA:O. I loved feeling like I really knew him/her. I loved that sex meant something to our friendship -- not something that just "locked it in." But I'd rather have no cinematic sex scene in DAIII if it means we can have a few more lines of dialogue with our romanceable companions. The Fenris and Anders romances (which are the only ones I've ever done) left me feeling cheap and used.

[Shevy]

I personally would trade them in for a silent protagonist, race selection or a better character creator but if they are included I'm not bothered by them. I know many players like that part of a BioWare game and since the resources put in don't lead to exclude a feature I like, go for it.

Modifié par Shevy_001, 13 septembre 2012 - 03:11 .

[Sylvianus]

We don't flirt with Merril in the First act. She doesn't take into account the attempts of Hawk to flirt with her. She just ignores him and continue to talk about what she feels in the town as if he didn't say anything. So I wouldn't say three flirts with her. ( Aveline does so during all the game, but since she isn't a LI, it's not that important even if it is frustating )

Anyways I'd rather never have romance again, with resources better used elsewhere, if it is to have the same " depth " and content as DAII. Romance controlled in each act with no player agenda, just need to press the heart icon, a linear and boring path where the player has just to deal with it.

I didn't care at all about DAII romance, while I liked the companions. The friendship path was enought for me. Given what was done, too bad these resources weren't used for Kirkwall's areas for example.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 septembre 2012 - 03:17 .

[Darth Death]

silentassassin264 wrote...

If you have a feature that a lot of people like, you should not abandon it. There are going to be far more people upset about its removal than people satisfied with it.

Why does this sound so familiar? Hmmmm....

[Uccio]

Absolutely there should be romances in DA3. These romances also should have effect on the storyline/decisions.

Modifié par Ukki, 13 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[brushyourteeth]

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyways I'd rather never have romance again, with resources better used elsewhere, if it is to have the same " depth " and content as DAII. Romance controlled in each act with no player agenda, just need to press the heart icon, a linear and boring path where the player has just to deal with it.

Sadly true.

[coles4971]

As long as they have some sort of plot significance, sure.

[Nomen Mendax]

Sylvianus wrote...

We don't flirt with Merril in the First act. She doesn't take into account the attempts of Hawk to flirt with her. She just ignores him and continue to talk about what she feels in the town as if he didn't say anything. So I wouldn't say three flirts with her. ( Aveline does so during all the game, but since she isn't a LI, it's not that important even if it is frustating )

Anyways I'd rather never have romance again, with resources better used elsewhere, if it is to have the same " depth " and content as DAII. Romance controlled in each act with no player agenda, just need to press the heart icon, a linear and boring path where the player has just to deal with it.

I didn't care at all about DAII romance, while I liked the companions. The friendship path was enought for me. Given what was done, too bad these resources weren't used for Kirkwall's areas for example.

I think making the pathes to romance more interesting is a good idea, but you can make the same point about most game content. Also to be fair to DA2, I'm in favour of the flirt icon (the heart) since you should know when your character is being flirtatious. I like it that you can flirt with Aveline and she ignores you because she isn't interested.

I agree that it is a bit linear in that if the NPC is a LI then pressing the flirt icon results in a romace. Perhaps you should lose reputation if you flirt at completely inappropriate moments.

LI: *wailing* They murdered my family, even Fluffy!!
PC: *smiling roguishly* I love the way your hair shines in the light of your burning house
Game: -15 to reputation

Modifié par Nomen Mendax, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:11 .

[bleetman]

hangmans tree wrote...

What I mean is developing romances as a part of story, not some excel demography input, or mainstream pop culture trends - Merill and emo elf dude, Fenris was it, being a prime example. I could go in lenght about the romances, but that is not the point of this discussion (how it should or should not be handled).
Lets take Pirate Chick - again, she was so memeorable I forgot her name and only remember ridiculous boobs-cleavage, high boots with minimal texture rag of a shirt to cover her ass and... well, ass. That is where suspension of disbelief failed me with DA2.

I'm not sure why your inability to see past Isabela's physical appearance is any particular relevance or importance.

Perhaps if you had, you might've noticed her being arguably the single most plot relevant character who joins Hawke's ragtag band of misfits in the entire game. In a 'pretty much everything that happens in the game's main plot is a result of her actions' kind of way.

[Wulfram]

It's hard to say Isabela is super plot relevant when she might not even appear in the game, even if she is connected to the macguffin

Modifié par Wulfram, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:24 .

[bleetman]

Her presence or lack thereof in Hawke's group doesn't really change anything about her importance. Most of what actually makes her important happens before we even meet her.

The point is she's not just T&A fanservice, and it continues to bug me when people can't see past her breasts to acknowledge that.

Modifié par bleetman, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:35 .

[Wulfram]

bleetman wrote...

Her presence or lack thereof in Hawke's group doesn't really change anything about her actual importance. Most of what actually makes her important happens before we even meet her.

Or to put it another way, she's as important as a whole bunch of NPCs of varying prominence.  It's not like she'd have done anything relevant without Castillon, after all.

I don't see how it makes her more plot relevant than Aveline, Anders, Bethany and Varric are all at least as important.

edit:  She's not just fanservice, no.  But she does do her best to convince people she is.

Modifié par Wulfram, 13 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[Kidd]

Sylvianus wrote...

Well, There for me it affects a vital part of the game, the combat. If you can't like combat in a rpg without topdown camera, you can't play the game. If you can't like the combat style in The witcher, it's understandable you can't like the game. If the combat seems broken, (  enemis dropping from the sky, nowhere ) it's understandable you can't play the game too.

I've sat through many a jRPG where I've absolutely loathed the gameplay but liked the setting, characters and plot. Different strokes =)

Likewise, I've played many good fighting games where the plot is absolutely crap and there is no actual character interaction (there's like what, two dialogues per character in SSF4? upped by 100% from a grand total of one dialogue per character in the first SF4). But I don't have Dead Or Alive 5 on preorder hoping for an eye-opening experience of amazing characterisation. So expectations can differ from game to game as well, depending on what they're bringing to the table.

[Nerdage]

Assuming there are full-time companions then yes, I think so. If there's a character hanging around for that long I think it's part of the expectation by now: you can agree or disagree with them and you can flirt with them, if you don't get those options then you're bordering on the writers telling you what your character can/can't think, which is annoying wherever it happens.

You could argue that whether any/all of them reciprocate (i.e. whether a romance comes from it) is a separate issue, but it'd be kind of disappointing if they all shot you down wouldn't it?

[hangmans tree]

bleetman wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

What I mean is developing romances as a part of story, not some excel demography input, or mainstream pop culture trends - Merill and emo elf dude, Fenris was it, being a prime example. I could go in lenght about the romances, but that is not the point of this discussion (how it should or should not be handled).
Lets take Pirate Chick - again, she was so memeorable I forgot her name and only remember ridiculous boobs-cleavage, high boots with minimal texture rag of a shirt to cover her ass and... well, ass. That is where suspension of disbelief failed me with DA2.

I'm not sure why your inability to see past Isabela's physical appearance is any particular relevance or importance.

Perhaps if you had, you might've noticed her being arguably the single most plot relevant character who joins Hawke's ragtag band of misfits in the entire game. In a 'pretty much everything that happens in the game's main plot is a result of her actions' kind of way.

I would take it as ajoke if not the serious frown on your forehead
She is as relevant as last years snow. She might or might not be there to serve as an excuse to explain what and who happened to the... book. This is not serious tie in, its a slapped on feature, anyone in the party could have served the role. That is why she is an empty doll. It might not look so blatantly bad if not her design.
She tries to be Jack(ME2) or was supposed to be one - but it failed. Neither bad ass, sexy, nor with and edge - no spark. Its a pose with nothing underneath. I like strong female characters but Izabella puts me off - a badly implemented character.
Like I said, all it consists of is the pose and character design (physical appearance).

BTW, there is a flaw in your statement

pretty much everything that happens in the game's main plot is a result of her actions

Its only a side story, giving you a conflict of character - what to do, how to judge a character you fell for in this kinda situation. But when you didnt pay attention to her she serves no role and disssapears without a track taking the artifact leaving you with a bad taste and a hole in storytelling.

[coles4971]

bleetman wrote...

Her presence or lack thereof in Hawke's group doesn't really change anything about her importance. Most of what actually makes her important happens before we even meet her.

The point is she's not just T&A fanservice, and it continues to bug me when people can't see past her breasts to acknowledge that.

Well you can't deny it's hard for people to acknowledge it when the T&A are thrown in our faces.

[Fallstar]

If the devs think they can do the romances tastefully, to the same approximate standard as the DAO and DA2 romances, then I think they should be included. After all, romances are optional. On my first playthrough of DA2 I didn't romance anyone, but I still appreciated that the option was there.

[Maria Caliban]

Wulfram wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support sex scenes in games and contend that Dragon Age 2's sex scenes are not only better than those in any other BioWare game but better than the vast majority of games and many movies.
 

Dragon Age 2's scenes are only sex scenes by very straight laced standards.

Straight-laced implies a narrow focus, such as defining a sex scene as 'two naked people rubbing naughty bits together' and nothing else.

coles4971 wrote...

Well you can't deny it's hard for people to acknowledge it when the T&A are thrown in our faces.

I can deny this.

Popular saying aside, people have enough blood in their body for both their brains and their loins to operate at once.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[BubbleDncr]

wsandista wrote...

I would personally prefer if it was not included, how do the rest of you feel?

I would be very disappointed if it was not included. The most emotional moments in both DA:O and DA2 were both because something bad happened involving my love interests, and would not have had such an impact if my character was unable to romance them.

[PhillyB]

wsandista wrote...

I would personally prefer if it was not included, how do the rest of you feel?

Yes, give us less of a reason to actually care for our companions, I'm sure that would be a great addition to a character driven RPG. Anymore idiotic questions while you're at it?

[Raikas]

 

Why could you like some other rpgs without any romance, other games without any romance, and why you couldn't with Bioware's games ? I've seen some people who used to like Skyrim, for example, and yet they claimed that they would stop buying Bioware's games if they decided to remove romances. I don't understand. Does that mean it is the only thing that interests them in their games ? Like I said, if that's the case, I do find it sad.

I think the main difference is that different developers are known for doing different things well.   Skyrim does a great job of giving you a world to walk around and a terrible job of giving you memorable characters to talk to, while DAII was the opposite – I enjoyed both games, but for very different reasons.  I’d rather see developers keep getting better at the things they’re good at before they dig into other areas where they might improve, but not to the point that it becomes a selling feature.   Taking the romances out of Dragon Age would take out a huge chunk of the unique character moments, and since characters are a selling feature of the franchise that’s why I’d see removing that feature (even to focus on improving some other element) as a negative.

Fast Jimmy wrote...


None of those things are unique to Bioware. Gay romances, however, are. Bioware is literally the only game company, at least in the West, that offers players the opportunity to develop a homosexual relationship in the game.

What about Obsidian/ Bethesda? 

Modifié par Hervoyl, 13 septembre 2012 - 06:26 .

[Wulfram]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Straight-laced implies a narrow focus, such as defining a sex scene as 'two naked people rubbing naughty bits together' and nothing else.

I define a sex scene as a scene with sex.  Otherwise it's a love scene or something.

[bleetman]

hangmans tree wrote...

She is as relevant as last years snow. She might or might not be there to serve as an excuse to explain what and who happened to the... book. This is not serious tie in, its a slapped on feature, anyone in the party could have served the role.

But they didn't. Someone else could've blown up the Chantry too. Or defeated the Arishok. Or ended the Blight. But hey, they didn't. Is 'you're the only one!' hero-of-the-ages a requirement to have a purpose in a story now?

She tries to be Jack(ME2) or was supposed to be one - but it failed. Neither bad ass, sexy, nor with and edge - no spark. Its a pose with nothing underneath.

Jack and Isabela are nothing alike whatsoever.

Like I said, all it consists of is the pose and character design (physical appearance)

<_<

But when you didnt pay attention to her she serves no role and disssapears without a track taking the artifact leaving you with a bad taste and a hole in storytelling.

Except that 'serving no role' and 'disappearing with the artifact' are mutually exclusive. Her active role from that point on is certainly diminished if she leaves, but diminished and non-existant aren't quite the same thing.

(As far as the romance thing goes, yep. Keep them coming etc)

Modifié par bleetman, 13 septembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[CuriousArtemis]

At this point I'm waiting for the "Should DA3 have a story?" or "Should DA3 have sound and color?" topics.