153 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

IT is a bunch of nonsense idiots have put together because they simply can't understand views other than their own.

[Hrothdane]

Flog61 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Little gems from IT thread:

Home run MF wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

O

M

G

Guys!

Girls!

I have found something awesome! I found where else that sound plays!

Here is the Leviathan sound.

AND HERE IS THE OTHER PLACE IT PLAYS!

What am I supposed to be looking at in the image?

Bottom right corner, IN.CTRN8

[Hrothdane]

Adanu wrote...

IT is a bunch of nonsense idiots have put together because they simply can't understand views other than their own.

I understand your views just fine, and I think you are entitled to have them, just as I am entitled to my own.

If you want to call my ideas nonsense and my friends in the IT thread idiots, then you have just proven that you are the one that refuses to understand.

[Hrothdane]

Flog61 wrote...

I like IT, but they may just be referancing it there.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone said "OMG IT IS PROVEN" after seeing that picture.

We like looking for little easter eggs like that, not even because we expect to find anything, but because we enjoy the looking. :happy:

[AllegedVixEo]

Cheesesack wrote...

IT has been dead for a long time. It's a shame; I was a staunch supporter of it in the beginning, but since EC and Leviathan, there is nothing more Bioware can do to kill it short of blatantly stating 'IT is false'. At this point, it just requires such a suspension of disbelief and glossing over of stuff in the game that it actually makes the current, rubbish endings look sensible. People are welcome to headcanon what they want, but that's all it will ever be.

Yeah, try telling that to the people in the Mark III IT forum.  I wandered in there to lay down some of my insight and ask questions, because, while I'm not an IT-er I didn't realize people still subscribed to this theory and I was curious (haven't been on the forum in a couple of months) and I got head cannoned right in the face!  I wasn't trying to troll or ruin anyone's day.  I was generally curious, I guess I just said the wrong thing, and people got defensive (and then I got defensive!) Oh well.  I agree Leviathan and EC make it pretty clear to me that the intention is to take the end at face value, and I think the game is better with those DLCs added. 

[liggy002]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

OP... don't ever question the indoctrination theory.

Those who back it up are indoctrinated and will troll your thread... as they already have.

There is no indoctrination theory anyway... it's all nonsense.

It's Bioware and all of the pro enders who are indoctrinated.  Supporting endings such as control and synthesis, which by the way have been fully endorsed by the Reapers, makes you one of their indoctrinated thralls.  Who are the ones who are indoctrinated?

[Bill Casey]

Do literalists think Shepard is literally walking around talking to Ann Bryson and Garneau at the end of the Leviathan DLC?
Or do they acknowledge it's taking place in Shepard's head?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 septembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[liggy002]

Bill Casey wrote...

Do literalists think Shepard is literally walking around talking to Ann Bryson and Garneau at the end of the Leviathan DLC?
Or do they acknowledge it's taking place in Shepard's head?

It's taking place in his head.  That is true.  Listen, I like the IT, I really do but with the IT being true, Bioware has refused to give us an ending to the story.  People subscribe to different versions of the IT.  The one that I subscribed to said that Shepard was dreaming/indoctrinated after being hit with Harbinger's beam.  It's the only theory that doesn't make the story look flat out stupid in my opinion.  The idea that there is no ending to that is ridiculous. 

[Bill Casey]

Lack of an obligatory penultimate scene and associated resolution forces you to confront core themes of the narrative...

[JimJamBimBam]

Logic kills the indoctrination theory, it's the most retarded idea ever, especially after the EC and Leviathan.

[Rip504]

IT killed IT. Nothing else was ever needed.

[WhiteKnyght]

Red Dust wrote...

OR...Or. Shepard never left the Leviathans, they kept him on their planet as a thrall and everything else from that point is a hallucination.

I'm calling it Leviathan Theory, and I'll need to have some banners made. Preferably with a hypnotic cuttlefish GIF.

Skipping Leviathan disproves that assertion.

[WhiteKnyght]

Ranadiel Marius wrote...

Nothing can kill IT because it is a zombie powered by the hopes and dreams of all those who refuse to accept the endings in the game happened as depicted.

Which is ironic because IT is worse than they say the endings are.

Truth be told, I think IT comes from awe towards the Reapers.

For the longest part of the series, the idea of facing the Reapers and winning was made to feel virtually impossible. Some people might have just believed the mystical mumbo jumbo surrounding them a bit too much. Meaning in their minds, since to them it is impossible to defeat the Reapers, any ending where you do so has to be fake.

Several parts of Extended cut take shots at the foundations of the IT anyway. Leviathan just lands the killing blow

Also I'd like to point out that Shepard being QE'd with Leviathan would arguably make him immune to any form of Reaper indoctrination.(Leviathan was shown to be stronger than the Reapers when it came to controlling.)

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:03 .

[The Twilight God]

SentinelShepParagon wrote...

 So, I don't know if there is already a thread about this, but I just realized that the Leviathan DLC pretty much kills IT.

In this DLC, the Catalyst is portrayed as a real thing that the Leviathans made, and its motives are presented as its actual motives in reality. It is not some made up hoax that is a last ditch effort to indoctrinate Shepard. It is an actually thing made by actual beings with actual motives that it was programmed to carry out by its actual creators. This seems to pretty overwhelmingly imply that the encounter with the Catalyst at the end of the game is, in fact, real. He exists, just like the Leviathan said he does, and his motives are the same as the Leviathan says they are. 

The only way to get around this would be to suggest that the whole Leviathan encounter was a dream, but come on. That would be such a HUGE stretch that it is almost laughable. Maybe you could say that the Reapers just used what the Leviathan said in their indoctrination attempt of Shepard, but that seems to be unlikely since this DLC works so hard to give background to the Catalyst character. I doubt this would be the case if the end was just a dream sequence. It would really be a waste of time. I guess you could also say that it was the Leviathans seeking to Indoctrinate Shepard all along, and this is where it starts, but again, another big stretch.

If IT wasn't dead already, there is little hope of it being alive now.

There is no need to kill Dream Theory. It never had a foundation to stand on to begin with.

However, I should point out that the Leviathans mention an Intelligence. Rather or not that Intelligence is the thing Shepard is speaking with on the Citadel is a completely different story. The ghostly presence int he form of he kid could very well be Harbinger.

[Bill Casey]

Are you people ****ting me?
Did you play Leviathan?

Is there some sort of alternate Leviathan DLC that doesn't end with Shepard blacking out and the Leviathan invading his mind with full bodied apparitions constructed from his memories?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:25 .

[The Twilight God]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Leviathan doesn't kill IT. IT is still alive. In the same sense that "Man didn't land on the moon Theory" is still alive.

However, Leviathan forces a complete restructuring of IT and it's core points. Pre-Leviathan IT and Post-Leviathan IT are two completely different things.

And that's the biggest blow to IT. All this time, ITists were insisting that IT is the only logical explanation yet now there is completely new form of IT. Weak.

What is the difference between pre and post-Leviathan IT (dream theory) ?

[Massa FX]

"There's no such thing as Indoctrination", laughs the big Leviathian Alpha 1.

"Indoctrination? Whats that?", Levi 2 giggles as it sends one of its thralls into direct contact with a thresher maw.

"Hows the harvest going? Is it done yet? " mutters Levi 3, the oldest and most senile super squid.

"Not yet. They have a bit of a problem. A human led resistance."

"What can we do to hurry it along guys?" Pipes in Lucy.

"Fool the human of course" Levi 1 yawns.

"Yes. Works every time. Let the human come. Get this harvest back on track."

In the deep depths the Levi's chuckle away. They are the survivors of their race. The betrayers that made the deal with the stronger and smarter Catalyst intelligence. In exchange for their betrayal they get to live long and prosper.

[The Twilight God]

Cheesesack wrote...

It seems to me like IT is becoming less and less an alternate theory and more just a vauge explanation of events. By that I mean, it seems to currently state that StarChild is trying to present Control and Synthesis as better options by indoctrinating shepard. This is to try and prevent him from choosing Destroy which will kill the reapers.

Uh, well, yeah? That's literally what that scene is. It's StarChild giving Shepard some options, but presenting Destroy in a negative way. That's not some amazing theory, that's what actually happens in the game.

Funny how people can't seem to piece that together. It literally, by definition, attempts to indoctrinate the player. The moment you player believes in the Kid's spiel and makes a choice based on the belief in the Kid they have been indoctrinated. They are in agreement with the Kid. They are validating its actions by acknowledging the necessity of synthesis.

The Reapers are habitual indoctrinators. They indoctrinate people. It is implied that soveriegn was indoctrinating the people on Eden Prime even though there was no intent for them to survive. They indoctrinate people for sh*ts and giggles, but when their very continued existence is on the line they turn it off? Absurdity.

[AlanC9]

The Twilight God wrote...

Funny how people can't seem to piece that together. It literally, by definition, attempts to indoctrinate the player. The moment you player believes in the Kid's spiel and makes a choice based on the belief in the Kid they have been indoctrinated. They are in agreement with the Kid. They are validating its actions by acknowledging the necessity of synthesis.

The Reapers are habitual indoctrinators. They indoctrinate people. It is implied that soveriegn was indoctrinating the people on Eden Prime even though there was no intent for them to survive. They indoctrinate people for sh*ts and giggles, but when their very continued existence is on the line they turn it off? Absurdity.

If a reaper tells me that 2+2 = 4, and I believe him, I'm indoctrinated?

[Legion of 1337]

The Twilight God wrote...

Cheesesack wrote...

It seems to me like IT is becoming less and less an alternate theory and more just a vauge explanation of events. By that I mean, it seems to currently state that StarChild is trying to present Control and Synthesis as better options by indoctrinating shepard. This is to try and prevent him from choosing Destroy which will kill the reapers.

Uh, well, yeah? That's literally what that scene is. It's StarChild giving Shepard some options, but presenting Destroy in a negative way. That's not some amazing theory, that's what actually happens in the game.

Funny how people can't seem to piece that together. It literally, by definition, attempts to indoctrinate the player. The moment you player believes in the Kid's spiel and makes a choice based on the belief in the Kid they have been indoctrinated. They are in agreement with the Kid. They are validating its actions by acknowledging the necessity of synthesis.

The Reapers are habitual indoctrinators. They indoctrinate people. It is implied that soveriegn was indoctrinating the people on Eden Prime even though there was no intent for them to survive. They indoctrinate people for sh*ts and giggles, but when their very continued existence is on the line they turn it off? Absurdity.

Except there's no evidence he's being idoctrinated. Even if he was, what difference does it make? The ending happens the way it's going ot happen, regardless of whether  Shepard makes the decision because of the Catalyst or by his own free will.

[The Twilight God]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...
How?

Bioware has stated several times there is no more post ending dlc coming

They have stated that ME3 is the end of sheps jouney and story. No shepard in ME4

Merizan even stated that if your version of IT needs more content post breath scene - that is not the interpretation of bioware nor will it be delivered upon as they are done with the endings.

So...shep wake up and then....?

No more post ending DLC
No ME4 with shepard

inb4biowarelies

Yep. IT-Con doesn't require more DLC for you to have an ending -- the Destroy ending is true, and the other endings are lies  -- or is Refuse real? Don't ask me why an indoctrinated Shepard is hearing fake EDI and Sheplyst talking while in Destroy it's really Hackett VOing for the player, but if you buy this, then you've had your ending. IT-Dream is the Sopranos ending on steroids.

Control is what you see. Synthesis is what you see. The thing is, people make quick assumptions beyond what is actually said by the narrators. ME3 doesn't have an epilogue. The narrators does not describe the picture slides. The slides are all about hopes and intents for the future, not necessarily what the future holds. 

Part I: Destroy Analysis
Even Destroy is deceptive in it's implications. The Geth do not die, but the relays aren't just magically fixed. Hackett can make claim whatever he wants (he's an optimist), but nobody knows how to fix relays and even if they did they still have to FTL to all of them. It would take 22-27 years to FTL across the galaxy in a straight line with no stops.Galactic civilization is cut off and rebuilding will have to occur. Rough time are ahead. There are no roses and butterflies in the aftermath.

Part II: Control Analysis
However, IT-Con is ultra literal. Most people assume everyhting turns out well. However, the Shepard AI never actually does anything. It simply says "I will do this" and "I will do that". Just like TIM beforehand keep saying "I will..." when he thought he was in control and wasn't. Even Shepards first words: Immortal infinite. Eternal are typical reaper spiel. Shepard knows for a fact that the reapers have none of those qualities and then suddenly he' talking like Soveriegn. Sure, the Reapers fix the relays, but that doesn't mean they won't continue the harvest. They had to fix the relays anyway.

Part III: Synthesis Analysis
Synthesis is narrated by an Reaper influenced EDI. As everyone, both organic and synthetic, are indoctrinated and imnplanted with Reaper tech. Like the shepard AI, EDI speaks about what she thinks will happen next. Rather or not her hopes and expectation come to pass is another story. I'm not going to go into it here but everything in-game points to the fact that the Reapers do not really want Synthesis as a final solution. It's simply preferrable to their destruction.

Part IV: Refuse Analysis
Refuse is what you see. Shepard giving up and thinking it's his idea. Pure indoctrination: The betrayal of allies. 

[The Twilight God]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Funny how people can't seem to piece that together. It literally, by definition, attempts to indoctrinate the player. The moment you player believes in the Kid's spiel and makes a choice based on the belief in the Kid they have been indoctrinated. They are in agreement with the Kid. They are validating its actions by acknowledging the necessity of synthesis.

The Reapers are habitual indoctrinators. They indoctrinate people. It is implied that soveriegn was indoctrinating the people on Eden Prime even though there was no intent for them to survive. They indoctrinate people for sh*ts and giggles, but when their very continued existence is on the line they turn it off? Absurdity.

If a reaper tells me that 2+2 = 4, and I believe him, I'm indoctrinated?

If you believed 2+2= 5 beforehand, yes.

[Legion of 1337]

The Twilight God wrote...
The slides are all about hopes and intents for the future, not necessarily what the future holds. 

No, the VO is about hopes and dreams for the future, the slides show the future itself (in other words, the slides validate the VO's speech). There's no trickery here.