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[Abraham_uk]

This thread got me thinking.

If the aim is to make the six classes more like those of Mass Effect 1,

Which of the main 6 powers should be kept?
Which of the main 6 powers should be ditched? As in not putting any points into those powers.
Which bonus power should be acquired?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 13 septembre 2012 - 09:02 .

[Abraham_uk]

Ammo Mods:

Remember: In Mass Effect 1, ammo mods were available to all classes. This is not the case in Mass Effect 2 & 3. So for Mass Effect 3, bring a squad mate with the relevant ammo power and evolve to "Squad ammo".

James Vega for Incendiary Ammo,
Ashley Williams for Disruptor Ammo (if she's still alive)
Garrus Vakarian for Armour Piercing Ammo
But don't Bring Liara for her ammo mods since there was no "warp ammo" in Mass Effect 1.

Abilities available to all classes in Mass Effect 1

Tech Mines and grenades:
Mass Effect 3, 4 out of 6 classes have grenades to substitute these. For those that don't (vanguards and engineers) there's proximity mines.


Armour Piercing Ammo
It is a bonus power in Mass Effect 2 and 3.

Shield Restoration
To substitute this, bring defence matrix and purge it.

Marksman
Returns as a bonus power



Adept

Keep: Throw, Warp, Singularity and Cluster Grenades (The adept in Mass Effect 1 could throw grenades).
Ditch: Shockwave (unless you're using the lift evolution) and pull (unless you're using it as an alternative to lift), Warp (if you intend to bring dark channel)
Bonus: Barrier, Stasis or Slam.  Dark channel probably has more in common with ME 1 style warp, than ME3 style warp.
Use: Pistols only.

Engineer

Keep: Overload (with neural shock evolution), Sabotage (used both for back fire and AI Hacking)
Ditch: Combat Drone, Sentry Turret, Cryo Blast and Incinerate
Bonus: Defense Matrix (with purge. This is similiar to the shield restoration ability in ME 1) or Proximity Mine (closest thing to tech mines in ME 1)
Use: Pistols only.


Soldier

Keep: Adrenaline Rush (Overkill, assassinate and marksman rolled into one), Incendiary ammo, cryo ammo, disruptor ammo, frag grenade and (maybe concussive shot as a carnage substitute)
Ditch: Concussive Shot (if you intend to bring Carnage)
Bonus: Carnage or Defence Matrix (as substitute to concussive shot) or Marksman (though this is pointless in my honest opinion)
Use: Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Sniper Rifles and Pistols (but no SMG's since they weren't around in ME 1)


Infiltrator

Keep: Tactical Cloak (if you intend to use it as an assassinate substitute. But bring hard hitting sniper rifle like a mantis, widow, black widow or Javelin if that is your aim),  Disruptor Ammo, Cryo Ammo, Sticky Grenade and Sabotage (used for weapon backfire only since ME 1 style infiltrator did not have AI Hacking),
Ditch: Incinerate
Bonus: Fortification (as a substitute for immunity), Defence Matrix (for restoring your shields ME 1 style) or Energy Drain (which is overload plus the shield restoration ability from Mass Effect 1 and can be a poor mans neural shock with stun) or Marksman.
Use: Pistols and Sniper Rifles


Vanguard

Keep:  Shockwave (with lift evolution. Unless you intend to have slam as bonus power), Incendiary Ammo and Cryo Ammo.
Ditch: Biotic Charge, Nova and Shockwave (if you intend to bring Slam)
Bonus: Barrier or Slam or Armour Piercing Ammo (but this is pointless), or Marksman, or Reave or Dark Channel, or Carnage. 
Use: Pistols and Shotguns


Sentinel

Keep: Throw, overload (with neural shock evolution), cryo blast (if you intend to use it as a substitute for stasis), tech armour (if you intend to use it as a substitute for barrier) and lift grenades.
Ditch:  Warp, Pull, Cryo Blast and Tech armour.
Bonus: Barrier or stasis, or slam.
Use: Pistols only

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 20 janvier 2015 - 05:24 .

[ZombieGambit]

Adept:
Pull
Throw
Singularity
Warp
Barrier (more power and damage reduction)

Vanguard:
Pull
Shockwave
Incendiary Ammo
Cryo Ammo
Reave (combo of Warp and Barrier, does damage and offers damage reduction)

Infiltrator:
Tactical Cloak
Sabotage
Cryo Ammo
Disruptor Ammo
Energy Drain (Energy Drain behaves somewhat like a combo of Overload and Damping if radius is taken)

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the contribution. Zombie Gambit

[capn233]

Heh, I didn't really want to change the classes to make them like in ME1, I was just feeling nostalgic and thinking about making one that felt sort of like an ME1 class.

Since ME2 decided to make each class more distinct, while also reducing the number of powers people had to worry about, it starts to get tricky to say what to do if you wanted to emulate a class from the first game.

The Ammo Powers vs Ammo Mods also may behave drastically different depending on what you are talking about though.

In ME1 there was very limited CC value to any of the ammo mods. The Cryo ones may have frozen an enemy every now and again, but that was about it. Incendiary didn't panic, although it did stop regeneration and reduce enemy accuracy. The Phasic and Proton rounds didn't have shield bonuses, but rather shield bypass (Cryo had this as well, although a smaller bypass).

Adept is the class that stayed fairly consistent. They didn't even invent a trademark power for it in ME2. Zombie already posted it, but you could emulate the ME1 class easily with those powers.

Engineer got Drone, which you could drop (partly because it isn't all that great in this game), but there were a lot of other interesting powers. You had Medicine which unlocked Neural Shock (sort of in Overload), Sabotage and AI Hacking (Sabotage now), Electronics which unlocked Overload (again, Overload), and Damping (nothing really in ME2 or 3 like it). Engineer did get Pistol Training, so that would be like Marksman. There was also Basic Armor, which gave you Shield Boost (Energy Drain's shield refill). I don't know what you would do with Tech Mines, there isn't really anything like that either in this game. They were a bit different than grenades, and they aren't like Proximity Mine either.

Soldier went through a bit of change too. Immunity and the gun powers sort of got replaced by Adrenaline Rush. If we could edit the class to make it more like ME1, then you would need to give him Marksman (to replace Marksman, Overkill, and Assassinate), Carnage, frag grenades, and then Defensive Matrix (to be Shield Boost and Immunity) as well as keeping the ammo powers. Of you just wanted the feel of ME1 without editing... I am not sure the best way to do that. Adrenaline Rush just feels a lot different than anything in ME1 so perhaps drop it for Marksman, or just go Defensive Matrix and no special gun powers.

Infiltrator I sort of threw around some ideas in my thread.

Sentinel was ridiculously good in ME1, IMO but the one thing he didn't have was real damage protection. Barrier gave you like 1000 shields, but there were shield bypassing attacks in the game that could cause you to die anyway. Tech Armor was a lot more powerful than barrier, but the other skills sort of went away. If you combined Barrier, Pull, Throw, Stasis and Sabotage then you would have something that might feel a bit like the ME1 guy.

Vanguard, just do a no charge caster with Defensive Matrix (to replace Immunity). Should mainly concentrate on Pull and maybe Shockwave. No Nova (although my No Charge Novaguard does have a little bit more of an ME1 style to it... that's the lack of Charge of course). Or you could take Carnage as the bonus, since they got Shotgun training in ME1.

[Abraham_uk]

I think all 6 classes have improved a lot.

I never liked weapon restrictions.
I also found that in Mass Effect 1, the hybrid classes didn't have an identity of their own.
Biotic and elemental combos are so much fun.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 14 septembre 2012 - 08:08 .

[capn233]

Abraham_uk wrote...

I think all 6 classes have improved a lot.

I never liked weapon restrictions.
I also found that in Mass Effect 1, the hybrid classes didn't have an identity of their own.
Biotic and elemental combos are so much fun.

They didn't feel remarkablt different in ME1, but they were excellent classes.

[Abraham_uk]

I'm now looking at specific builds that mimic Mass Effect 1 Specialisations (yes even medics).

Special thanks to Mass Effect Wiki Specialisations and Mass Effect 3 Power Calculator.


Commandos:   Commandos rely on lethal efficiency and precision strikes rather than brute force to eliminate their opponents.

Commando Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush: Dilation and damage, duration, shield boost
Frag Grenade and Concussive Shot: For this build, it doesn't matter what points you put into these powers. It's all about weapon damage.
Incendiary Ammo: Damage, headshots, explosive burst
Disruptor Ammo: Damage, headshots, damage
Cryo Ammo: How you spec this power is up to you, as long as you use the headshot evolution in rank 5.
class Passive: Damage, headshots, damage
Fitness: Durability, shield recharge, durability
Fortification:  Durability, shield recharge, durability.


Defence matrix is also a good power, since there is no shield boost in ME3 singleplayer (yet).


Commando Infiltrator:

Similiar to soldier commando. Marksman used instead of fortification. Also on a side note, you could use bonuse power evolution of tactical cloak instead of sniper damage. That way you can abuse the (tactical cloak + marksman) tactic.

Tactical Cloak: (There is no assassinate ability. So use this instead) Damage, recharge, sniper damage
Disruptor Ammo: Damage, headshots, damage
Cryo Ammo: How you spec this power is up to you, as long as you use the headshot evolution in rank 5.
Fitness: Durability, shield recharge, durability
Marksman: Accuracy, headshots, accuracy & rate of fire.
Incinerate and Sabotage: Entirely up to you.
class Passive: Weapon damage, squad bonus, sniper damage




Shocktrooper: Highly trained killing machines, Shock Troopers excel in all combat situations. The main features of this build is tanking and melee damage. This build focuses on these. Very risky in Mass Effect 3, but also very rewarding.

Shocktrooper Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush: Hardening, melee, shield boost
Fitness: All melee evolutions
Fortification: Melee, recharge speed, durability
class Passive: Entirely up to you.
Ammo Powers, grenades and concussive shot: How you wish to spec them is up to you.


Shocktrooper Vanguard:

Biotic Charge: Ditch this power. In Mass Effect 1 there was no similiar power to biotic charge.
Fitness: All melee evolutions
Barrier: Barrier strength, shield recharge, barrier strength
class Passive: Ranks 4 & 5 up to you. Rank 6, shotgun mastery.
Ammo Powers, pull, shockwave and nova: Entirely up to you.





Nemesis: A biotic who uses their abilities to damage and weaken their foes, the Nemesis gains bonus damage to all biotic abilities. Improved lift increases its radius, and improved warp increases its radius and damage done per second.


Nemesis Adept:

Warp: Detonate, expose, pierce
Throw: Radius, detonate, double throw
Pull: Ditch pull
Shockwave: Radius, reach, lifting
Cluster Grenade: Up to you
Slam: Radius, recharge speed, stun
Singularity: Radius, lift damage, detonate
Fitness: Upt to you
class Passive: Damage and force, damage and capacity, power mastery

Nemesis Vanguard:

Biotic Charge: Ditch this power. In Mass Effect 1 there was no similiar power to biotic charge.
Nova: Ditch this power. In Mass Effect 1 there was no similiar power to nova. (unless you count throw as similiar)
Incendiary Ammo, Cryo ammo and Pull: Entirely up to you.
Shockwave can be both lift and throw: Radius, reach, lifting
Reave: radius, recharge speed, damage and duration
Fitness: entirely up to you
class Passive: Damage, Squad bonus, Power intensity




Operative: Operatives are masters at manipulating their environment to maximum advantage. Bonuses include reduced recharge on all tech attacks, and improvements to Overload and Sabotage.

Operative Engineer:

Incinerate, Cryo Blast, Combat drones, sentry turret: Ditch these powers since they weren't in Mass Effect 1.
Overload: Chain overload, recharge speed, shield damage
Sabotage: Backfire, recharge speed, tech vulnerability
Bonus Power: Defence matrix or proximity mine. How you wish to spec them is up to you.
Fitness: How you wish to spec this one is up to you.
class Passive: Duration, damage and capacity power mastery,
 

Operative Infiltrator:

Tactical Cloak: Mostly up to you, but choose bonus power evolution.
Ammo Powers, Sticky Grenades and Fitness: Entirely up to you.
Sabotage: Backfire, recharge speed, tech vulnerability
Energy Drain: Radius, recharge speed, damage
class Passive: Influence and duration, weight capacity, damage and duration




Bastion: Bastions use biotics for defense or for opponent immobilization.

Bastion Adept:

Warp: Detonate, lasting damage, recharge speed
Throw: Radius, recharge combo, recharge speed
Pull and shockwave: Spec for recharge speed (other evolutions up to you)
Cluster Grenades: Up to you.
Singularity: spec for recharge speed
Stasis: Is the imporatant power of this build.  Stasis strength, bonus power, vulnerability
Fitness: Durability, barrier recharge, fitness expert
class Passive: Influence and duration, weight capacity, combo mastery


Bastion Sentinel:

Warp: Ditch this power.
Throw: Radius, recharge combo, recharge speed
Lift Grenade and Overload: Up to you
Cryo Blast: Ditch
Tech Armour: Durability, power damage, power recharge
Stasis: Is the imporatant power of this build. Stasis strength, bonus power, vulnerability
Fitness: Durability, shield recharge, fitness expert
class Passive: Influence and duration, weight capacity, bonus power




Medic: Medics improve upon the First Aid and Medicine talents and dramatically increase the recharge rate of associated abilities. For this build, make sure you purchasse all medi-gel upgrades. Run up to fallen team mates and revive them, and use unity ability when in trouble.


Medic Engineer:

Ditch: Incinerate, cryo blast, combat drone and sentry turret.
Overload: Chain overload, neural shock, chain overload
Sabotage: Up to you.
Defence Matrix: Shield bonus, power synergy, power recharge
Fitness: Durability, shield recharge, fitness expert
class Passive: Power damage, squad bonus, power mastery


Medic Sentinel:

Ditch: Cryo blast.
Warp: Ditch
Throw, lift grenade and tech armour: Up to you.
Bonus Power: Proximity mine is good choice, or marksman.
Overload: Chain overload, neural shock, chain overload
Defence Matrix: Shield bonus, power synergy, power recharge
Fitness: Durability, shield recharge, fitness expert
class Passive: Influence and duration, squad bonus, bonus power.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:49 .

[capn233]

It's tough to approximate ME1 classes since so much has changed. "Thinking aloud" about the ME1 Infiltrator was interesting though.

Talking about them might stress my recollection of ME1, but here goes.
-----

Commando

Soldier's bread and butter was probably Immunity and whatever weapon power was your favorite in ME1, regardless of what specialization you took. I favored Commando most of the time though for more damage. In any event, leave out Concussive Shot, but rank Frags for damage. Adrenaline Rush ranked for Damage. Fortification should have Power Synergy. For Passive, go Weapon Master at Rank 6 of Combat Mastery.

For the Infiltrator, consider the bonus power on Cloak, drop Incinerate, Sabotage for Backfire and Tech Vulnerability, max Sticky Grenades and go Marksman.

Shock Trooper

Soldier is sort of tricky. Shock Trooper soldier was very much a tank character. Maybe run Defensive Matrix (for DR and purge to shields). Otherwise, somewhat similar to the Commando.

Vanguard should probably get Barrier as bonus. Skillset is fairly different, but spec into Pull and Shockwave. Nova is fairly radically different than what you could get in ME1, so I would leave it out.

Nemesis

Vanguard... take duration and power damage, drop charge, and go with Slam as a bonus (offensive power, differentiate from Shock Trooper).

Adept I am not sure on, but you should invest in all the core powers and maybe skip a bonus? Or go Marksman (since you did have pistol training). Or take Stasis.

Bastion

Adept: Stasis as bonus power (to mimic Stasis specialization), or Barrier.

Sentinel: Barrier as bonus, Tech Armor for durability, spec into Throw, grenades, and Overload. Or stasis, it depends on how you think the Medic should run...

Medic

Engineer should spec Sabotage as the infiltrator did above I suppose. I do not know what the right bonus power would be. Engineer did have Marksman in ME1. Proximity Mine might also make some sense.

Sentinel should avoid Warp, since he didn't have it in ME1. I don't know what bonus power here. Medic reduced recharge speed, but Defensive Matrix will end up reducing them slightly.

Operative

Engineer needs full chain on Overload (mimic max radius).

I don't know what to do with the Infiltrator really. Outside of specing Sabotage, grenades, and Cloak. Bonus I am lost on... maybe Defensive Matrix with tech bonuses.

-----

All in all, as I said it is hard to come up with similar classes.

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the heads up Captain233

I wonder what you make of this.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:42 .

[SpectreVerner]

I didn't like ME1 classes. The core classes were fine (especially Adept), but the hybrid classes had no draw to them. Infiltrators and Sentinels were so lackluster. It wasn't until ME2 gave them an actual draw that made me want to play them.

[RedCaesar97]

SpectreVerner wrote...

I didn't like ME1 classes. The core classes were fine (especially Adept), but the hybrid classes had no draw to them. Infiltrators and Sentinels were so lackluster. It wasn't until ME2 gave them an actual draw that made me want to play them.

The hybrid classes had no draw?

Infiltrator with AI Hacking as a bonus talent was better than the Engineer.
Vanguard with Singularity was better than the Adept.
Infiltrator with Shotguns was better than the Soldier.

[SpectreVerner]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

SpectreVerner wrote...

I didn't like ME1 classes. The core classes were fine (especially Adept), but the hybrid classes had no draw to them. Infiltrators and Sentinels were so lackluster. It wasn't until ME2 gave them an actual draw that made me want to play them.

The hybrid classes had no draw?

Infiltrator with AI Hacking as a bonus talent was better than the Engineer.
Vanguard with Singularity was better than the Adept.
Infiltrator with Shotguns was better than the Soldier.

I mean a draw that made them unique from the core classes, not having a "better" version of an ability or using a weapon. Infiltrators got tactical cloak, Sentinels got tech armor and Vanguards got charge. All those abilities made the classes feel more unique from the begining.

[Rusted Cage]

Red linked me to this page, very interesting stuff here. Did any of you ever do an uninterrupted trilogy playthrough with what is essentially (or as near as dammit) the same build set up throughout?
Caesar's ME style Vanguard (with Harvester woes) video was quite inspirational and proves that Mass Effect 1 style builds could probably be really good fun. I also think that the emulation and continuation of ME1 game mechanics might also make for a deeper and more immersive gaming experience.