66 réponses à ce sujet

[AbsoluteApril]

I don't want to make a long drawn out post since I think most of the things I prefer for my RPG-experience are not coming back (silent PC, text wall instead of wheel, no tones)..

I do believe a background helps give the player a 'starting point' to build upon and create motivations from. Other things such as race choice, class choice, detailed CC, help the player create something unique which (to me) gives more of a connection to your 'creation'.

My Wardens always felt like 'my' creations. I feel like they are all unique and have a variety of different stories to tell, even if they all end fighting the archdemon, there are still multiple different endings*.
*And different endings are based on the choices made throughout the game, not a 'multiple choice' at the end of the game.

I look at my Shepards a bit differently, since it's an action/RPG with voiced PC and more limited dialogue via the wheel and emotion (paragon/renegade), However, I felt I was still able to customize each one to be a bit different. I do feel like I am shaping a character instead of 'being' that character. (ME3s over use of auto-dialogue pretty much killed any immersion I had with most of my Sheps, especially the renegade ones. I'm one of those ME1>ME2>>>ME3)

Hawke.. well never felt like mine beyond being able to customize their face. Felt like I am playing a 'set role'. That hit me when given the choice with Saarebas, My Hawke told Patrice she wasn't going to escort him out of the city. Conversation ends. Plot icon/arrow says only choice to move forward is to escort him out of the city. It didn't feel like Hawke's decisions mattered and I wasn't able to shape the character how I wanted, I was riding along with him/her through the wave of the story (if I was playing Sarcastic Hawke s/he'd say "what, am I invisible over here?).

wow, so much for not making a long post..
*eep*

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 14 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[nightscrawl]

Nomen Mendax wrote...

How did you find playing a mage Hawke?  I ask because I started one playthrough as a mage but gave up because the world didn't seem to make any sense. Nobody knew that I was a mage even though I walked around with a 7 foot tall magic staff and blew up criminals in the street. Also given how unfriendly Kirkwall was to mages, once I'd got Carver and mother set up with Gamlin the obvious thing to do was to go somewhere else.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I play my first playthrough of any RPG as a mage, and did so in DA2. I was hesitant to even use magic at first in the fight scene that broke out in the Prologue right in front of the Templars, but realized it made no difference at all. Which was sort of jarring, but at the time, I didn't realize how anti-mage Kirkwall was, so it was just more of annoyance than anything else.

Unfortunately, I think they ran out of time to implement "being a mage in Kirkwall" correctly.

Youth4Ever wrote...

It's really comical to ask an NPC to explain a situation while investigating for the Aggressive Hawke dialogue option to afterwards flatout order them to get to the point.

Until your post I had never thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right. I recently did an aggressive Hawke play and most of the red responses do come off that way.

[ScotGaymer]

I seem to be going against the crowd here and say that I actually liked Hawke.

ManHawke that is not FemHawke. The material (dialogue) that the actor was working with wasn't Bioware's best that is clear (but not their worst either - ME3 has that dubious honour), but the Voice Actor did a really good job with it I thought.
NiceHawke, SarcyHawke, PillockHawke were all done fairly well. The weakness for me was in the writing or perhaps the direction to a small degree rather than delivery. That is with ManHawke.

I could step into his shoes with little difficulty.

FemHawke on the other hand I found impossible to play.

As my FemHawke play thru I got as far as the Deep Roads and physically could not play any further (and that save eventually got deleted). And for me it is because the Voice Actor absolutely failed completely.
While ManHawke's VA really tried his best with the poor writing and/or direction, and you could see/feel that the VA really got Hawke - with FemHawke IMO this was not the case.

FemHawke's VA sounds perpetually bored throughout, like the VA was constantly thinking "when is this terrible job over so I can collect my pay cheque?" I suppose SarcasticFemHawke is somewhat tolerable in places.
But for the most part she just sounds BoredHawke not NiceHawke, or BadHawke, or SarcyHawke. Just BoredIsThisOverYetHawke.

It's terrible and combined with the other "problems" connecting with the character (like the incohesive dialogue in places) makes it impossible for me to connect with FemHawke. With ManHawke because of the sterling job the VA does (IMO) I can mostly get into Hawke's head and understand, and enjoy playing as him.
Because FemHawke just sounds bored the whole way through I can't connect with her at all.

As such to me Hawke is only a man. FemHawke doesn't exist as far as I am concerned. Where with Shepard I always say he/she, with Hawke I automatically type he.

Seriously if you guys don't believe me about FemHawke google/youtube the comparison videos for the voice acting of ManHawke and FemHawke. It's really really obvious when you hear the contrast.

[Nomen Mendax]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I seem to be going against the crowd here and say that I actually liked Hawke.

ManHawke that is not FemHawke. The material (dialogue) that the actor was working with wasn't Bioware's best that is clear (but not their worst either - ME3 has that dubious honour), but the Voice Actor did a really good job with it I thought.
NiceHawke, SarcyHawke, PillockHawke were all done fairly well. The weakness for me was in the writing or perhaps the direction to a small degree rather than delivery. That is with ManHawke.
...

Just wanted to say that PillockHawke is a great description.

[ScotGaymer]

Nomen Mendax wrote...


Just wanted to say that PillockHawke is a great description.

Lol thanks.

I wanted to say d*ckHawke but the censor wont let me. Lol.

[CuriousArtemis]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Seriously if you guys don't believe me about FemHawke google/youtube the comparison videos for the voice acting of ManHawke and FemHawke. It's really really obvious when you hear the contrast.

Uhh well a lot of us have played both so we don't need to Google or YT it ... and I think both VAs are great. Soooo like so many things on this forum, it's all a matter of opinion. 

As for not being able to complete a playthrough ... for me that's the Warden, not Hawke (Fem or otherwise). I've got like three playthroughs going on right now, but I have no real desire to return them. The Warden is just ... boring. S/he has no personality whatsoever. I've actually made it through the whole story several times with a male Warden because I could make a cute guy and mildly entertain myself with the Zevran romance. But I'm stuck with my female Warden. I'm so booooored with her. Miss Blank-Face-Creepy-Smile. Bleh. Not sure what Alistair sees in her.

[fchopin]

To me Hawke was more like a performing monkey in a circus, i liked the character but after a few hours of behaving in a manner that had nothing to do with the story and never having any important decision in the plot made the character irrelevant.

I never had control of my character in what he or she said in the game, it was more like watching an NPC perform with very little control.

With the warden and Shepard i had a character that i could control on what he did and said most times.

Basically i think Hawke was Biowares character and not the players, he was not created for the player to control but just to watch like a movie.


Edit: I have only played female Hawke as i did not like the default male face and could not do a good male face so don't know if that is why Hawke felt like a performing monkey to me.

Modifié par fchopin, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Get Magna Carter]

I felt Shep and the Warden were doing the necessary to gave their home galaxy/country.
But for Hawke it felt too much like railroading.

The warden felt like the player's character. Hawke felt like Bioware's. Shepard was inbetween with Bioware trying to take the character in both directions

[BubbleDncr]

There were a couple times where I felt like I couldn't roleplay Hawke they way I wanted to - specifically, when I did my rogue playthrough, I wanted that Hawke to be anti-mage and resentful towards Bethany. But the game defaulted you towards a friendship with her, and it was only one rare occasions that dialog options allowed me to be mean to her.

[KENNY4753]

Shepard I had 3 games to grow with so I loved playing as Shepard. The Warden was great to roleplay because of the diverse backgrounds that you could start from. Hawke on the other hand I couldn't get into. On multiple occasions it felt like I was playing BioWare's character and not my own.

[frostajulie]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Do you think that maybe the idea that you could choose a background factors into it?

You could do that with all the games except for DA2.

I believe this is a part of the disconnect.  Background stories are huge in defining the motivations of a character you RP  a choice you make with a dalish elf in DAO will be made for different reasons then that same choice you make with a female Cousland  the exact same story is told very differently in your head when you decide on why your pc is who she is and what personally drives her forward.  To this extent I can see why I always love playing an Earthborn Ruthless Shepard she is always struggling to atone for what she felt was her own personal failing on Torphan and the street thug background was something she was constantly trying to overcome to be better than where she came from and then disappoint herself when she lost her cool and shot someone in the kneecaps.  She has always been a very satisfying shepard to play.

With Hawke you kinda end up being Mario You play someone elses character and the motivations are not really personal to your character.  But thats not all that it is another poster here said they felt like Hawke was always reacting to things but had no clear goals of her own.  I often tried to rp that Hawke wanted to free her sister but its a hardsell considering after the templars take her thats it for Bethany until the end.  A mage Hawke was easiest to RP but she still didn't belong to me.

Someone else also mentioned that there were times when it felt like you were Varric helping to tell Hawkes story to Cassandra and this really rings true for me.

To this day I can load up a shepard or a warden and instantly a new story is being told even though the graphics and cutscenes and dialogues are all the same but with Hawke she is always the same Hawke I played last time.

[jillabender]

frostajulie wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Do you think that maybe the idea that you could choose a background factors into it?

You could do that with all the games except for DA2.

I believe this is a part of the disconnect.  Background stories are huge in defining the motivations of a character you RP  a choice you make with a dalish elf in DAO will be made for different reasons then that same choice you make with a female Cousland  the exact same story is told very differently in your head when you decide on why your pc is who she is and what personally drives her forward.  To this extent I can see why I always love playing an Earthborn Ruthless Shepard she is always struggling to atone for what she felt was her own personal failing on Torphan and the street thug background was something she was constantly trying to overcome to be better than where she came from and then disappoint herself when she lost her cool and shot someone in the kneecaps.  She has always been a very satisfying shepard to play.

With Hawke you kinda end up being Mario. You play someone elses character and the motivations are not really personal to your character.  But thats not all that it is another poster here said they felt like Hawke was always reacting to things but had no clear goals of her own.  I often tried to rp that Hawke wanted to free her sister but its a hardsell considering after the templars take her thats it for Bethany until the end.  A mage Hawke was easiest to RP but she still didn't belong to me.

Someone else also mentioned that there were times when it felt like you were Varric helping to tell Hawkes story to Cassandra and this really rings true for me.

To this day I can load up a shepard or a warden and instantly a new story is being told even though the graphics and cutscenes and dialogues are all the same but with Hawke she is always the same Hawke I played last time.

Very well said – the background choices in Mass Effect and especially DA:O inspire me to use my imagination to flesh out how my character's background has shaped his or her outlook, personality, and choices, and to create new characters with their own stories to tell.

However, I'm open to the idea of RPGs in which the protagonist has a set background, even though the way it was done in DA2 didn't always work for me.

Modifié par jillabender, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:38 .

[Rawgrim]

Shepard and Hawke never felt like my characters. The Warden did.

[Renmiri1]

Sheppard was awesome on ME1 and ME2, Hawke was my character and my favorite. The Warden was fun but I'd rather have a voiced protagonist

[ImperatorMortis]

Rawgrim wrote...

Shepard and Hawke never felt like my characters. The Warden did.

This. 

The Warden is literally our character. Shepard, and Hawke are basically preset people who we guide a bit with subliminal messages. 

With the Warden we were the driving force in how our character interacted, with the other two we're just back seat drivers. 

[KENNY4753]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Shepard and Hawke never felt like my characters. The Warden did.

This. 

The Warden is literally our character. Shepard, and Hawke are basically preset people who we guide a bit with subliminal messages. 

With the Warden we were the driving force in how our character interacted, with the other two we're just back seat drivers. 

Shepard felt more like my character than Hawke. At least I got to choose a background for Shep. Hawke was Bioware's created player. The only thing we were able to choose is class and gender. 

The Warden was our character though. We made almost everything about them what we wanted it to be. Different race, background, etc.